Michael Moore

[Steff]

Is on Stern right now.

[mreye]

I'll bet that's a lovefest! :puke

[Queen Prawn]

Is on Stern right now.

Can ya fill those of us in that are stuck in cubes with no radios...

 

Pretty please with sugar on top?

[israel4ever]

Stern and Moore both have valid reasons to hate/distrust the current Administration!

 

(Cuz it SUCKS!!!)

[Steff]

Can ya fill those of us in that are stuck in cubes with no radios...

 

Pretty please with sugar on top? 

Talking about the link between Bush and the Bin Ladin family. Pretty solid ties from what I can tell. A lot of jumping around. Talking about O'Reiley and Al Frankin now. FCC bias, too.

[kapkomet]

I swear...

 

If algore was elected, do you think he would be perceived to "polarize the country" on the issue of 9.11? You don't think all these politicians have some sort of "relationship" with "bad people"?

 

They are all scumbag, whiney, political gain farkups. ALL, not just Bush, ALL of them.

 

I get so sick of the onesidedness.

[Steff]

I swear...

 

If algore was elected, do you think he would be perceived to "polarize the country" on the issue of 9.11?  You don't think all these politicians have some sort of "relationship" with "bad people"? 

 

They are all scumbag, whiney, political gain farkups.  ALL, not just Bush, ALL of them.

 

I get so sick of the onesidedness.

I'm sure Gore has his "ties".

 

But I'm sorry... the tie to the very family of the asshole that just killed 3K people... and wished it was more... :puke

[Rex Kickass]

I swear...

 

If algore was elected, do you think he would be perceived to "polarize the country" on the issue of 9.11?  You don't think all these politicians have some sort of "relationship" with "bad people"? 

 

They are all scumbag, whiney, political gain farkups.  ALL, not just Bush, ALL of them.

 

I get so sick of the onesidedness.

Go watch Fox News then. There was five minutes of whining this morning about how Al Gore dares to criticize the president on such an important issue as terrorism... from the anchors.

 

Fair and Balanced my ass.

[kapkomet]

Criticism is fine.

 

Acting like a raging lunatic to play on people's emotions is another.

 

Bush's "my way or the highway" is pure BS, and I think it's dangerous. I disagree with our president on that. I'm criticising him.

 

But I'm not standing in front of a bunch of people, screaming my fool head off about "Bbbbbbbeeeeetttttraaaaaaaaaaaaaying MMMYYYYYY CCCOUUUUUNTRYYYYY!!!! (screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech).

 

Therein lies the difference.

[Steff]

Although it may appear that way.. I don't "support" MM. but I'm glad he got the information he did, and is presenting it to the public. For me, it's about watching it, digesting it, and forming my own opinion on it. All the yapping MM does, I don't even pay attention.

[CubKilla]

Stern has turned into a complete tool. I never thought I'd do it, but I usually turn off his morning show now. It's turned into nothing but a Bush slamfest and a Moore lovefest. And 6 months ago, Stern would have been ripping Moore and his "movies" apart. Complete toolism.

 

And let's remember it was Osama Bin Laden that is responsible for 09/11. Not his family..... who has written Osama off.

[Steff]

Stern has turned into a complete tool. I never thought I'd do it, but I usually turn off his morning show now. It's turned into nothing but a Bush slamfest and a Moore lovefest. And 6 months ago, Stern would have been ripping Moore and his "movies" apart. Complete toolism.

 

And let's remember it was Osama Bin Laden that is responsible for 09/11. Not his family..... who has written Osama off.

They still give him money to stay away from them Killa. Money that inadvertantly comes from many people including the Bush family.

 

 

And I agree Howard's rants suck. But I understand the fight die to the FCC crap.

[The Critic]

And let's remember it was Osama Bin Laden that is responsible for 09/11. Not his family..... who has written Osama off.

This is absolutely true, but:

When a crime is committed, and it's fairly obvious who committed/funded/masterminded it, wouldn't the family be kept around to try and gain information about the suspected family member? Like possible whereabouts, known associates, possible leads/information they may have overheard, things like that?

 

I'm just asking - perhaps the feds interrogated the bin Ladens before shuttling them out of the country. Just seemed kinda wrong that the only people allowed in the air after the attack were the relatives of the main attacker ( financeer, braintrust, figurehead....whatever ).

 

Oh, and Michael Moore is a blowhard with an agenda, but it is good that ANY "hidden" facts see the light of day, so all angles can be considered when forming your own opinion about things....somewhere in the middle is where the truth lies....

[Kid Gleason]

I never understood the whole "he is evil for ties to the Bin Laden" family angle. On a lesser side, should we ship Jeffery Dahmers parents away from the world, just because they are his parents? Ties to an evil person does not make you an evil person. Most of his family says they haven't heard from Osama for years. There is a possibility that there are good people in that family. In my opinion, it was not such a bad idea to get his family out of the country. It would be that or get them into hiding, either way, they were taking to the air, and it was for their own protection, and if they had nothing to do with the acts, then why should we leave them at the mercy of the loons just out for revenge?

 

I am all for free speech, but I don't think Moore really understands what his actions can do against the country. Other countries, and the people that don't like the US, are eating his s*** up, and loving every second of watching us turn on our President. It's not a good sight we are showing the world. No folks, we are not showing them the beauty of free speech. We are showing them a Nation turning against their leader. Remember, their media outlets will edit to make it look like they are doing a great job, and how the country is rising up against Bush. Moore might not be the main vision that will be exploited over there, but he will be one of them. He is treading on VERY poor ground, and making many bad choices. Right now he will be seen as a hero by some, but his name will be Mud in the future. I just see it all exploding in his face. I also don't think he is doing stuff with any "evil" intent, or with any "I'll make millions off of this". I do believe that he truely believes in what he is doing, but he has lost his true way. People are standing behind him telling him to keep going, and he is just getting all caught up in the situation, that he is forgetting what good he could actually be doing.

 

Well, that is it for now. That was much longer than I wanted it to be. I just find it a shame that people have turned on both parties so much. My Dad actually knows Bush, and hung out at his house. Heck, my Dad even went with one of Bush's buddies to get his daughters from school one day when he was tied up. This was a few years ago, before he was Pres. According to my Dad, Bush is a great guy. So I don't know, I trust my Dad and his judgement of people, so who knows. I just think that in the greater view of things, neither of these guys are "evil".

[Rex Kickass]

I just want to know where these people who b**** about a private citizen complaining loudly about the Bush administration were five and six years ago when the Republican leadership couldn't stop complaining about our missions in Kosovo and Bosnia. All the while trying to impeach the man for getting a hummer in the White House from someone other than his wife. That's the definition of irresponsibility.

 

This is a private citizen concerned about the direction of our country. A concern worth sharing. He may be an extreme voice, but he has a point.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Doing against the President is not doing against the country, necessarily. One only owes allegiance to the President to the point where he leads the country beneficially. The vast majority of his actions as I've documented in this thread and others show that he is not leading the country in a good way for the majority of people. The FBI has not interviewed the bin Ladens. When there is a murder, the family usually gets put under the microscope. 3000+ were murdered and there was no investigation of the family. It was a slap in the face to protocol because of the close relationship. That's what his outrage is about. They have not been investigated in the slightest for possibly having ties to him.

 

In fact, executive order signed by Bush # W199I stopped all FBI investigation into the bin Laden family before 9/11 when the FBI was interested in researching possible ties some of the family may still have with him and the AQ network. W199I effectively quashed any of that.

 

http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html#w199i is a site with a lot of links discussing the frustration of FBI agents that W199I tied their hands from investigating. That's what Moore's outrage is about and given the result of W199I, he's more than justified.

 

And hey, I didn't hear so much yelling about not having dissent against the President when media were written lambasting Clinton for his extra-curricular activities when we had troops in Yugoslavia.

 

Bush is an idiot and is being played by Cheney/Rove for political ends because he has a recognizable last name for the GOP. If you read any books by those who have come out as members of the administration, you see that Cheney is the one who really does a lot of the work and George sits there. There's a lot of books that show numerous examples of this like "Against All Enemies" and "Worse than Watergate" (which has stories from O'Neill and Clarke among other Bush admin. members in it)

[IlliniBob72]

It was left-wing darling Richard Clarke who shipped the bin Ladens out of the country. He has said as much.

 

Just seemed kinda wrong that the only people allowed in the air after the attack were the relatives of the main attacker ( financeer, braintrust, figurehead....whatever ).

 

This is incorrect and has been admitted as such by everyone. Moore's personal mouthpiece was on some news show stating that while F9/11 may lead the audience to believe that they were the only ones allowed to fly, they never said so explicitly. They were in the air after planes were allowed to fly again.

[Rex Kickass]

But planes of that class, private non-commercial flights, were not.

 

Clarke is a hero because he takes responsibility. Bush has not.

[IlliniBob72]

But planes of that class, private non-commercial flights, were not.

 

Clarke is a hero because he takes responsibility. Bush has not.

Regardless, they were not the only ones in the air. And the fact stands, Clarke let them out, not Bush.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm sure Gore has his "ties".

 

But I'm sorry... the tie to the very family of the asshole that just killed 3K people... and wished it was more...  :puke

Its not like all of the Bin Laden family is bad. Plus, just because your a friend of someone that eventually does something wrong doesn't necessarily make you responsible. George Bush was not the only one with a connection to the Bin Laden family and if anyone somehow wants to create some sort of tie between Bush allowing Bin Laden to doing that, then thats flat out propostrious.

 

And like Kap mentions, everyone has ties. Hell, I've been researching the libertarian party quite a bit as of late. I have nothing against the war, my gripes are with Bush's insane spending. Kerry would only be worse, but I don't like the growing size of the government, especially with a conservative in charge.

[Chisoxfn]

Although it may appear that way.. I don't "support" MM. but I'm glad he got the information he did, and is presenting it to the public. For me, it's about watching it, digesting it, and forming my own opinion on it. All the yapping MM does, I don't even pay attention.

I'm gonna watch the movie tonight. I figure he will bring up some good points, but of course will probably only show the very left side. Despite that, he does work hard and research his stuff.

 

I mean bowling for columbine was an exceptional movie. I was kind of indifferent on gun control, but since seeing that movie, I truly feel that some sort of gun control is useful. I own a few guns (none located in my house or the state I live in) but I don't want a gun around me. Like my dad says, why take the chance of getting pissed, having a gun near by and shooting someone.

[Chisoxfn]

But planes of that class, private non-commercial flights, were not.

 

Clarke is a hero because he takes responsibility. Bush has not.

What, you want bush to say that its his fault Bin Laden had the money to do it, because he has done business with the Bin Laden family, which is a pretty highly respective family and from what I undrestand has been well documented in pretty much telling their radical son to stay the hell away.

[cwsox]

It's not a good sight we are showing the world. No folks, we are not showing them the beauty of free speech. We are showing them a Nation turning against their leader

 

I disagree totally. This is not Stalin's USSR. This is not Saudi Arabia.

 

This is the USA where we have a constitutional right - indeed, mandate, obligation - to depose the head of the executive according to our constitution, and we sure as hell have a right to criticise the head of the executive branch when we want to. By the standard advanced above, it was wrong for Reagan to run against Carter - a time of national crisis when Reagan was criticising "their leader" to the American public. You can't have it both ways.

 

I believe the head of the executive branch is the greatest danger to American security that exists in the world today and I will exercise my right of free speech to campaign in the opublic sphere to outsource him in the electoral process. And there is nothing more beautiful than that to show the world, that a Reagan can replace a Carter where free speech and democracy prevail, where a Clintoin can replace a Bush, without violence, without revolution, but peacefully according to our democratic process.

 

That is exactly what is beautiful and we should be showing the rest of the world. To say we cannot 'turn against' a governmental employee who is chosen by the electorate to serve in a particular limited constitutional role is not a very American philosophy.

[cwsox]

Kerry would only be worse

I strongly disagree Jason.

 

Ideology should take second place sometime.

 

This nation has never seen such a wasteful profligate spender as this administration.

 

The comaprison for Kerry is far better made with Clinton, where we had a balanced budget, indeed, a surplus.

[kapkomet]

I think that's misleading too...

 

One thing that Kerry should not get taken to the carpet over... and that is a tax policy. I hear conservatives say "with John Kerry your taxes will go up". What political BS. WHO STARTS THE SPENDING BILLS AND THE TAX CODE? CONGRESS.

 

It's misleading as hell to sit there and say that John Kerry is going to raise taxes. Congress will raise taxes, and Kerry will sign it. I hate it when they use misunderstanding of our government to pray on falsehoods.