Official Ortiz/Jones ATL Rumors Thread

[witesoxfan]

Dude..I' not saying Maggs is better than Jones.  I would love to have Jones.  But have you seen the money he's gonna be making the next 4 years?  That's what I don't get.

That's the thing. Maggs IS better then Jones. Defensively, he is not. Offensively, Jones is not as good(as pointed out by Maggs career average compared to Jones's career best average in a single season, and their career OPS, along with their numbers from this year).

 

It's more or less something very good and something mediocre for two good things. Like trading Madden 2004 and Triple Play 1998 for Madden 2002 and MVP 2003.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Maggs makes $14 mil per year.

 

So lets say we some how get him to agree to just keeping the same salary.

 

I believe $14mil is still > $13.5mil.

 

Unless you think Maggs is taking a pay cut?

 

SB

Whatever. The money doesn't seem that different to me. Then again. I'm not the one spending it.

[Soxbadger]

No because everyone here is failing to understand supply and demand.

 

The supply of 27 year old GG cfers who can hit 30+ hrs is almost 0.

 

Where as there is an abundance of rightfielders who can hit for .300 25 hrs.

 

So wed be losing some production at RF, but gaining so much in CF and another Pitcher.

 

SB

[Jordan4life_2007]

No because everyone here is failing to understand supply and demand.

 

The supply of 27 year old GG cfers who can hit 30+ hrs is almost 0.

 

Where as there is an abundance of rightfielders who can hit for .300 25 hrs.

 

So wed be losing some production at RF, but gaining so much in CF and another Pitcher.

 

SB

Ok..I understand that. Do you have the status on Ortiz's contract? Could we sign him after this year?

[Gene Honda Civic]

It's more or less something very good and something mediocre for two good things. Like trading Madden 2004 and Triple Play 1998 for Madden 2002 and MVP 2003.

That analogy made me laugh.

[witesoxfan]

That analogy made me laugh.

I try my best.

[Soxbadger]

This was his option free agent next year.

 

Id expect $3mil from Atlanta per year for Jones.

 

SB

[CWSGuy406]

No because everyone here is failing to understand supply and demand.

 

The supply of 27 year old GG cfers who can hit 30+ hrs is almost 0.

 

Where as there is an abundance of rightfielders who can hit for .300 25 hrs.

 

So wed be losing some production at RF, but gaining so much in CF and another Pitcher.

 

SB

He's overpaid. We have enough guys on this team that hit 30+ homers. What we need is more guys who hit for average/high OBP.

 

BTW - I'd much rather take a .300, 25 HR, Above Average RFer than a .267, 30 HR, GG CFer.

 

Rowand can provide the same that Jones is providing this year, like Cheat said.

[Soxbadger]

Okay if you seriously think Rowand is on the same planet as Andruw Jones, then I cant argue with that.

 

Put Andruw Jones in the 2 hole, and he goes crazy.

 

Hes had one bad year and hes 27 years old.

 

Thats 1 year older than Rowand and look at his career stats.

 

Come on, be reasonable.

 

SB

[CWSGuy406]

Okay if you seriously think Rowand is on the same planet as Andruw Jones, then I cant argue with that.

 

Put Andruw Jones in the 2 hole, and he goes crazy.

 

Hes had one bad year and hes 27 years old.

 

Thats 1 year older than Rowand and look at his career stats.

 

Come on, be reasonable.

 

SB

One bad year? How about one really good year? And the rest just average/a little above average years?

 

Averages from '96 to present: .217, .231, .271, .275, .303, .251, .264, .273, .243. Highest OBP during that time .366. You say he drives in 100+ RBIs yearly, yet he's only done it three times? I'll agree with you that it's hard to find a GG CF 30+ Homer guy, but we don't need another 30+ homer guy. We need high avg/OBP guys.

 

Rowand is hitting .299 with a .355 OBP, 7 Homers, 17 RBIs. In about 100 more AB's, Jones only has four more homers than A-Row. Not to mention what a great job Rowand has done defensively this year.

[witesoxfan]

Okay if you seriously think Rowand is on the same planet as Andruw Jones, then I cant argue with that.

 

Put Andruw Jones in the 2 hole, and he goes crazy.

 

Hes had one bad year and hes 27 years old.

 

Thats 1 year older than Rowand and look at his career stats.

 

Come on, be reasonable.

 

SB

I do agree with you.

 

That's why I think we put Jones in CF, and put Rowand in RF.

 

I just don't know where we put him in the lineup. Maybe...

 

Harris - 2B

Jones - CF

Thomas - DH

Lee - LF

Valentin - SS

Konerko - 1B

Rowand - RF

Crede - 3B

Olivo - C

 

With Uribe subbing in for Harris, Valentin, and Crede 3-5 times a week...when he's hot, get him in the lineup, be it by putting him in at 2B, 3B, SS, or even sitting Paulie, putting Frank in the field, and putting Uribe at DH. Something should be done in those cases. The depth that would provide us would be very nice to have.

 

Part of me wants Steve Finley for CF...but if that can't happen, I wouldn't mind this move...so long as Russ Ortiz is not the only SP we acquire to help us in our drive for the playoffs.

[Chisoxfn]

Jones has one ugly contract:

 

2002: $9.5M (+$3.0M signing bonus)

2003: $11.5M

2004: $12.0M

2005: $12.5M

2006: $13.0M

2007: $13.5M

 

That's way less?

Maggs wants about 15 mill a year (Vlad money) and Jones will average 13 mill the remaining 3 years of the deal so thats 6 mill over two years, plus a little bit less this year. The Sox also get a long term bat and I'd have to think Jones could be moved elsewhere if the Sox wanted to.

 

This would be an interesting deal cause the Sox could get Andruw Jones in return, have Ortiz for the rest of the year and then at the end of the season if they let Ortiz walk, they get the two draft picks for him, just like they would of for maggs, but instead have Jones (the best defensive cf in the majors) in the Southside.

 

I'd definately have to consider this deal, although the earlier Wunsch/Maggs for Clement Patterson deal was probably more intriguing, imo, mainly because of the lesser salary the Sox would of been taking.

 

However, if the Braves picked up a little of Jones contract, like an addition 1-2 mill a year, then you really would have an interesting scenario.

 

Also take into fact that he is hitting a respectable .262 away from Turner field in what is a down year for him and you'll notice that his numbers will definately go up in Chicago. Then again, he hit better in 2003 in Atlanta then he did on the road.

 

Also in 2003 he hit .277 with 36 HR and 116 RBI. Thats pretty damn impressive considering he is a gold glove centerfielder.

[Chisoxfn]

He's overpaid.  We have enough guys on this team that hit 30+ homers.  What we need is more guys who hit for average/high OBP.

 

BTW - I'd much rather take a .300, 25 HR, Above Average RFer than a .267, 30 HR, GG CFer.

 

Rowand can provide the same that Jones is providing this year, like Cheat said.

All you have to do is watch how many runs Jones saves a year and I can tell you straight up, if you put it into a computer, he's a more productive all around rated player than maggs.

 

This may be a ballsy statement by me, but I have never in my life seen an outfielder make the plays he can. Their are a lot of guys that can go back on the ball like he has in major league history, but I can't think of anyone that can come in and make the plays he does.

 

He is absolutely fantastic. Hell, Jones for Maggs straight up with the Braves taking on 1-2 mill a year of Jones salary is something I'd consider for the simple fact we get a guy thats 27 and signed for another few years at a relatively affordable contract considering he'll hit potentially 40 HR and hit .265-.275 in Chicago. I like Rowand and all, but he couldn't hold Jones freaking jock strap.

 

Oh ya, over the past few years, Jones has hit righties better then lefties, so while he isn't a lefty, he at least doesn't get shut down by righties, at least not typically. The fact we fill another big time need by getting a pitcher. Not only a pitcher, but a guy that won 21 games last year. I could give a damn that the Braves scored a ton of runs, you still have to be good to win 21 games. His ERA is in the low 4's and he wasn't healthy early in the season and now he is and is pitching well. He also has postseason experience and has been an ace of a staff. This is exactly what the Sox need. He'll also go deep enough into games to the point that it will definately rest a bullpen.

 

Folks, if Jones/Ortiz for Maggs is on the table then the Sox would be fools not to accept this deal. Worse case we keep Jones after the year and lose Ortiz for 2 picks while we already know we are losing Maggs. Jones is MARKETABLE. All I ask is to watch a few Braves games and see he will rob typcially a hit a game, if not more. Trust me, that will be beautiful to watch in Chicago.

[SoxFan1]

All you have to do is watch how many runs Jones saves a year and I can tell you straight up, if you put it into a computer, he's a more productive all around rated player than maggs.

 

This may be a ballsy statement by me, but I have never in my life seen an outfielder make the plays he can.  Their are a lot of guys that can go back on the ball like he has in major league history, but I can't think of anyone that can come in and make the plays he does. 

 

He is absolutely fantastic.  Hell, Jones for Maggs straight up with the Braves taking on 1-2 mill a year of Jones salary is something I'd consider for the simple fact we get a guy thats 27 and signed for another few years at a relatively affordable contract considering he'll hit potentially 40 HR and hit .265-.275 in Chicago.  I like Rowand and all, but he couldn't hold Jones freaking jock strap.

 

Oh ya, over the past few years, Jones has hit righties better then lefties, so while he isn't a lefty, he at least doesn't get shut down by righties, at least not typically.  The fact we fill another big time need by getting a pitcher.  Not only a pitcher, but a guy that won 21 games last year.  I could give a damn that the Braves scored a ton of runs, you still have to be good to win 21 games.  His ERA is in the low 4's and he wasn't healthy early in the season and now he is and is pitching well.  He also has postseason experience and has been an ace of a staff.  This is exactly what the Sox need.  He'll also go deep enough into games to the point that it will definately rest a bullpen.

 

Folks, if Jones/Ortiz for Maggs is on the table then the Sox would be fools not to accept this deal.  Worse case we keep Jones after the year and lose Ortiz for 2 picks while we already know we are losing Maggs.  Jones is MARKETABLE.  All I ask is to watch a few Braves games and see he will rob typcially a hit a game, if not more.  Trust me, that will be beautiful to watch in Chicago.

Amen!

[Chisoxfn]

Just to add a little more to our previous statement, but pitching is our problem and we get pitching, while still keeping a solid bat offensively. We also get a guy thats a pitchers best friend, which in turn is like making each one of our pitchers, just a little bit better.

 

The Sox have proven they can score runs without maggs. In this case, we get a little less productive offensive Maggs, a front line starter, and assistance to each and every starter. We also get to know that the Sox don't lose Maggs for nothing at the end of the year.

 

The team is better now and next year....DING DING DING!!!!!!

 

However, I would still love to see the Sox pick up another starter late in the season and of course at least another reliever, although I like Aboz idea of moving Diaz to the pen to replace Jackson.

[SoxAce]

One bad year?  How about one really good year?  And the rest just average/a little above average years?

 

Averages from '96 to present:  .217, .231, .271, .275, .303, .251, .264, .273, .243.  Highest OBP during that time .366.  You say he drives in 100+ RBIs yearly, yet he's only done it three times?  I'll agree with you that it's hard to find a GG CF 30+ Homer guy, but we don't need another 30+ homer guy.  We need high avg/OBP guys.

 

Rowand is hitting .299 with a .355 OBP, 7 Homers, 17 RBIs.  In about 100 more AB's, Jones only has four more homers than A-Row.  Not to mention what a great job Rowand has done defensively this year.

The same can be said about Uribe. He wasn't doing s*** in "hitter's friendly" Coors Field, and now look at him (granted he has decline some, but he will finish with a .280-.290 BA) A change of scenery can definitely help a player, which in this case, Andruw Jones. I can see Greg Walker really helping Jones with his swing (like he did Uribe) and shorten up more instead of trying to hit the long ball.

[witesoxfan]

The same can be said about Uribe. He wasn't doing s*** in "hitter's friendly" Coors Field, and now look at him (granted he has decline some, but he will finish with a .280-.290 BA) A change of scenery can definitely help a player, which in this case, Andruw Jones. I can see Greg Walker really helping Jones with his swing (like he did Uribe) and shorten up more instead of trying to hit the long ball.

That and the fact that he goes from a s*** lineup to a very good lineup, and he goes from a pitcher's park to a hitter's park, not to mention the pitching in the AL Central is nothing compared to the Marlins, Mets, and Phillies is(and even the Expos for that matter) in the NL East.

 

Jones would thrive over here IMO.

[SuperSteve]

I'd cry if we got Jones, tears of joy!

[Chisoxfn]

That and the fact that he goes from a s*** lineup to a very good lineup, and he goes from a pitcher's park to a hitter's park, not to mention the pitching in the AL Central is nothing compared to the Marlins, Mets, and Phillies is(and even the Expos for that matter) in the NL East.

 

Jones would thrive over here IMO.

I truly believe he'd hit 40 hr's here and if he hit .270, that would be more then adaquate for me to say he's the best centerfielder in the majors.

 

I'll trade one of the better right fielders in the game for the best centerfielder in the game whose signed to an affordable deal, compared to what the Sox would have to pay for Maggs. Plus they get Ortiz.

[SuperSteve]

I truly believe he'd hit 40 hr's here and if he hit .270, that would be more then adaquate for me to say he's the best centerfielder in the majors.

 

I'll trade one of the better right fielders in the game for the best centerfielder in the game whose signed to an affordable deal, compared to what the Sox would have to pay for Maggs.  Plus they get Ortiz.

It'd take more than Mags though. I didn't bother to read all the long ass posts, but it would have to take more than just Mags IMHO.

[Chisoxfn]

It'd take more than Mags though. I didn't bother to read all the long ass posts, but it would have to take more than just Mags IMHO.

I'll show off my CSUF education by summarazing the 20 pages for ya Reportedly Maggs and Rauch for Jones/Ortiz.

 

GO TITANS (Up 1-0 with Winsdor most likely pitching tomorrow against Texas).

[SuperSteve]

Reportedly Maggs and Rauch for Jones/Ortiz.

Much more realistic and I would do it. Especially with Diaz pitching well against a good team today.

[DBAHO]

Andruw Jones, think Mike Cameron with a better average and more pop in his bat. I think the last few weeks this offense has shown we can cope without Maggs, guys like Paulie hav been stepping it up. If we get Jones though, it'll be interestin to see what happens with the right field spot. We've got Rowand, Reed and Borch to contend for it.

[witesoxfan]

Andruw Jones, think Mike Cameron with a better average and more pop in his bat. I think the last few weeks this offense has shown we can cope without Maggs, guys like Paulie hav been stepping it up. If we get Jones though, it'll be interestin to see what happens with the right field spot. We've got Rowand, Reed and Borch to contend for it.

Ozzie would want Rowand, Gload, and Perez there. And I have no doubt about it.

[DBAHO]

Ozzie would want Rowand, Gload, and Perez there.  And I have no doubt about it.

What happens next season though, surely we can't go thru with that rotation again. At least giv Borch or Reed an oppurtunity to win the job in spring training against A-Row, while Gloady could be the bench guy.