Chisoxfn Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 You novices. It doesn't matter whether you are a LH or RH bat. What matters is how well you do against RH & LH pitchers. The SOX are hitting 961 OPS vs LH, 807 vs RH. Andruw Jones 856 vs RH, 679 vs LH. Translation: We have plenty of guys on the team that can hit LH. We have few guys on the team that can hit RH. Andruw Jones Defense & bat vs RH = more SOX wins. Ya, I made mention of this yesterday. Jones hits righties better then lefties historically so while he isn't the left handed bat everyoen seeks, he still puts up the production we want against right handed pitching. I firmly believe, if the Sox acquired him that he would have at least one 50 HR .275 type year. IF not 50, then 45 Hr's and that doesn't even begin to mention his stellar defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Maybe it's just me, but I think we should leave it at one trade for the week. 2 huge trades like that, especially trading very likable players...I don't know if I can take that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 More Andruw Jones stats: 5 GG Considered the very best CF in the game. Great jump on balls, good speed, vertical leap, considered to save the Braves many runs a year. 2004 TB splits: v RH: 97 (# 1 on the Braves) v LH: 27 (# 4) 2003 TB splits: v RH: 231 (# 4 on the Braves) v LH: 74 (# 3) 2002 TB splits: v RH: 258 (# 1 on the Braves) v LH: 29 (# 5) 2001 TB splits: v RH: 241 (# 2 on the Braves) v LH: 47 (# 3) 2000 TB splits: v RH: 295 (# 1 on the Braves) v LH: 60 (# 3 ) His biggest strength is clearly against RH pitchers & even his weakness against LH is still top 3 or 4 on a team as strong as the Braves. Now here's the thing to think about. With the success the SOX have had over the years against LH's the odds are that Jones will have better #'s against LH's in the SOX lineup as well. If being in the SOX lineup helps the weakest part of his game where's the downside? Magglio for Jones straight up doesn't make a lot of sense. But Magglio+Rauch+prospect for Jones+Ortiz+cash makes a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Maybe it's just me, but I think we should leave it at one trade for the week. 2 huge trades like that, especially trading very likable players...I don't know if I can take that. Variety is the spice of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 His biggest strength is clearly against RH pitchers & even his weakness against LH is still top 3 or 4 on a team as strong as the Braves. A team as strong as the braves??? They aren't strong this year and their prior strength has been largely in pitching. Further, if you count this year, 3 of his past 4 years have been below par, suggesting he may be getting worse. All this for only 13 mill per season- I'll pass. Do we really need Ortiz? He's a 4.00 pitcher (in the NL) who walks a lot of batters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Variety is the spice of life. I guess so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Somebody please summise what is happening here because I do not have time to read this huge thread. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Somebody please summise what is happening here because I do not have time to read this huge thread. Thanks. Their were rumors of a: Jones/Ortiz/Cruz for Maggs/Prospects deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy2121 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 im not too sure i like the maggs/jones aspect of it...i would like to see if we can sign maggs rather than getting jones whos hitting like .243(?) ortiz for rauch/prospects i like though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 A team as strong as the braves??? They aren't strong this year and their prior strength has been largely in pitching. Further, if you count this year, 3 of his past 4 years have been below par, suggesting he may be getting worse. All this for only 13 mill per season- I'll pass. Do we really need Ortiz? He's a 4.00 pitcher (in the NL) who walks a lot of batters. If Cameron is worth 6 million a year primarily for his defense, then Jones is worth twice as much for his defense & offense. Plus all the numbers suggest Jones will produce a lot more in the SOX lineup than in the Braves. There's nobody on this team that doesn't hit LHers. Having that kind of coverage in the lineup is definitely going to improve Jones' numbers. As for Ortiz look at his starts: 2.1ip, 3er 7.0ip, 4er 6.2ip, 1er 6.1ip, 1er 3.1ip, 7er 6.1ip, 1er 6.2ip, 2er 1.1ip, 4er 7.0ip, 0er 9.0ip, 1er 6.0ip, 5er 6.0ip, 3er 7.0ip, 2er 6.1ip, 5er 7.0ip, 0er 9 quality starts, 2 winnable starts, 5 poor starts Yes. I think we can use him. Yes. I think he's a definitely upgrade. If I did this for any of the SOX starters you would :puke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 And we should be getting Meadows or Guardado anytime now right Jas.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Could u imagine Jon Garland as the 5th starter, Scho out of the pen, and Ortiz as a 4...it would be downright filthy. Plus you have Jones patrolling center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Andruw Jones biggest weakness is strikeouts (52 vs RH, 12 vs LH .. highest overall on Braves). Walker has done wonders with every hitter in the SOX lineup wrt to strikeouts & patience. It seems to me if the Braves are willing to throw in cash to cover Ortiz the SOX should seriously consider it if Maggs is determined to test FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Could u imagine Jon Garland as the 5th starter, Scho out of the pen, and Ortiz as a 4...it would be downright filthy. Plus you have Jones patrolling center. I suggested this before in another thread, but I'll do it again... What if we used Garland out of the pen? Him going there would be not only help the depth of the pen, but to also light a fire under his ass...like Ramon Ortiz in Anaheim. I'm fine with Scho in the rotation...other then his past few starts, he has been solid. And I like him as a lefty in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I suggested this before in another thread, but I'll do it again... What if we used Garland out of the pen? Him going there would be not only help the depth of the pen, but to also light a fire under his ass...like Ramon Ortiz in Anaheim. I'm fine with Scho in the rotation...other then his past few starts, he has been solid. And I like him as a lefty in the rotation. To me Garland is the better starter and he goes much deeper in games. I also don't like Garland as much out of the pen as Scho. Just my 2 cents. I love the idea of getting Ortiz now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 ESPN.com mlb news: Acquired from San Francisco last offseason for left-hander Damian Moss and a minor leaguer, Ortiz was 21-7 with a 3.81 ERA in 34 starts for Atlanta in 2003. Ortiz, 29, earned $4.6 million in 2003, and the club option was for $5.7 million in 2004. He can become a free agent after that. The extra 500K must have been some kind of bonus that kicked in. He's presently at 6.2 mil. Ortiz is definitely a rent a player but I don't think he will be unsignable for the White Sox. Garcia, Buehrle, Loaiza, Ortiz, Schow looks pretty good. 2 LH, & 3 RH is a perfect balance for the AL. Garland,Diaz become long relief & Jackson sayonara. Pen becomes Garland, Diaz, Politte, Wunsch/Darensboug, Marte, Shingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 To me Garland is the better starter and he goes much deeper in games. I also don't like Garland as much out of the pen as Scho. Ditto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I'd love to make the Atlanta trade, but there are a few prospects that I wouldn't trade if I were KW. They are: B-Mac Anderson Honel Sweeney There are a few players that I'd hate to lose, but would consider trading in a Jones/Ortiz/Cruz deal, and they are: Wing Munoz Borchard Haigwood Anyway, I'd be so freakin happy if we got Jones, Ortiz, and Cruz. Jones is awesome in CF, and even if he's lost some of his step, he's still pretty damn good. Ortiz would be great as a #4, and Cruz has some dynamite stuff, but just needs to get it all straightened out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I'd love to make the Atlanta trade, but there are a few prospects that I wouldn't trade if I were KW. They are: B-Mac Anderson Honel Wing There are a few players that I'd hate to lose, but would consider trading in a Jones/Ortiz/Cruz deal, and they are: Sweeney Munoz Borchard Haigwood Anyway, I'd be so freakin happy if we got Jones, Ortiz, and Cruz. Jones is awesome in CF, and even if he's lost some of his step, he's still pretty damn good. Ortiz would be great as a #4, and Cruz has some dynamite stuff, but just needs to get it all straightened out. I would trade Wing then trade Sweeney/Haigwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Ditto. The presence of 2 LHers in the rotation makes it much harder for opposing teams. The SOX are one of the best teams against LHers. Most of the ALC is pretty weak against them. F Garci starts: 11 quality, 2 winnable, 3 poor M Bueh starts: 9 quality, 2 winnable, 5 poor R Ortiz starts: 9 quality, 2 winnable, 5 poor E Loaiz starts: 7 quality, 4 winnable, 4 poor J Garla starts: 7 quality, 3 winnable, 5 poor S Scho starts: 5 quality, 5 winnable, 4 poor Still don't think we need Garcia & Ortiz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 i think that, seeing maggs go wouldnt be too tough, knowing that he probably isnt going to sign here any how... even if there is a article on chisox.com that says otherwise, its all politics with those things.... someone leaked the KW was talking to ATL about maggs so KW said, write up an article about maggs wanting to stay, cut and past comments he has made over the year, and get this under raps again. this deal with ATL would be great for us now, and later. A) we get jones for 3 years and if ATL is goin to eat some of his cash, even better B) we have one of the best, if not the best PITCHING staff and BULLPEN IN THE MLB! garcia, burly, e lo, ortiz, and garland showe, marte, shingto, cruz, cotts, adkins C) we could sign all of the players above to multi year contracts and have a team that could be a WS contender for years to come... as we all know, pitching wins WS garcia-10 mil e lo-6 mil ortiz-6 mil burly-6 mil garland-3 mil starting pitching staff salary- 31 mil (half of JR's 62 mil budget, which he might up if we win big this year) releaf salary- about 5 mil so that would leave KW about 28 mil to work with for thomas, kong, jones, lee, etc.... which wont work.... hahah f*** so, bottom line... if JR wants to win this year and for 3 years to come.... GIVE US A f***ING 75 - 80 MIL. PAYROL!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 If the Sox deal Maggs, I guarantee every writer out there will be saying how Maggs told the Sox he wouldn't resign unless he got 5 yr 15 mill and the Sox coudln't and wouldn't do it. Spin it that way and land Jones, etc and you got yourself a winnable situation, plus I fullly believe Jones is a very marketable player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 u think that JR would add 10 - 15 mil extra to the payrol if he could get that kind of product on the field for the next 3 years and be WS contenders each year? im goin out on a limb and saying, I DO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 u think that JR would add 10 - 15 mil extra to the payrol if he could get that kind of product on the field for the next 3 years and be WS contenders each year? im goin out on a limb and saying, I DO Ya, if he feels that attendance would go up as well and I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that the fan support is going to keep growing and growing. I like whats going on in the South Side of Chicago right now!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 They won't have to spin it. If the Mets rumor of 140/8 is realistic for Maggs or Beltran than the final offer for Maggs' services will be way out of the SOX league. Getting Andruw Jones in CF at the cell for about 12 mil a yr thru 2007 is the smart move. Especially if Ortiz can be signed to less than 6 mil a yr. Rowand's improvement gives the SOX an option of Lee, Jones, & Rowand. That would make it one of the best D OF in one of the best hitter's ball parks. Sounds like a winnin g combination to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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