A realistic view of where we may be

[CrimsonWeltall]

Brando, no optimistic posts allowed.

[Guest JimH]

Ugie Urbina is expected to go to the Astros, maybe as soon as this weekend.

[CWSGuy406]

I think a lot of this is Post-Cubs-Loss syndrom right now. Look, I don't want to harp on it, but the Cubs lost four out of six to us last year as well, and they were able to make it to the playoffs.

 

We've pitched horribly lately. I have faith that they will bounce back, it just has to be sooner rather than later. I really hope Kenny is able to get this deal done with Atlanta, I would really really love for that to happen...

[SuperSteve]

I actaully dont think its post cub loss syndrom. We have been s*** latley, and today its really starting to build.

I feel that.

[Heads22]

Nice Post Brando.

[CWSGuy406]

This from Rotoworld.

 

WCSR-AM in Chicago is reporting that the White Sox are trying to acquire Russ Ortiz from the Braves.Could the Braves give up already? If so, Ortiz, John Smoltz and J.D. Drew would be the top available players. Chipper and Andruw almost surely will stick around.

 

It would be awesome if KW could swing a J.D Drew and Ortiz deal.

I'd be willing to part with Borchard, Rauch, and Diaz for Ortiz and Smoltz...

[Heads22]

Not if we only had both for half a year....

[AngelasDaddy0427]

Look,

The sky isn't going to fall in on us.

We lost one game...WE are still in it.

Yes this game sucked and we looked like s*** but things will turn around.

[Yoda]

Look,

The sky isn't going to fall in on us.

We lost one game...WE are still in it.

Yes this game sucked and we looked like s*** but things will turn around.

 

WHEN WILL THINGS TURN AROUND JECKLE? WHEN!?

 

*sky falls on everyone*

[DBAHO]

We should be very thankful that Minny hav got a very tough 2nd half schedule, because Johan Santana has been on fire in his last 3 starts and they've got a healthy Joe Mauer back catching and hitting. Cleveland signin Aaron Boone also tells you they think they can win this division, so it's pretty much a 3 team race.

 

I think we all knew that this part of our season was going to be absolutely crucial. We just cannot afford to fall away from the Twinkies right now, and we hav to find a way to stay in touch. If that's gettin a Russ Ortiz type of pitcher added to our rotation then do it.

[Flash Tizzle]

Top of the 6th, Minnesota leads 5-0.

Santana pitching lights out: 5 IP, 8 K's, 3 hits.

 

White Sox are likely to find themselves 3 GB. :puke

 

*Cleveland/Colorado are tied at 8 in the 8th inning.

[greg775]

Why do you think trading Loaiza, Paulie, etc. is going to

make us a better team??

Yes the Cubs are going to beat the s*** out of us tomorrow.

But it's not time to sell the whole f***ing team.

Sometimes I think some fans act like we are a team with

money. We can ship all the players we want, we are still

going to have holes as a small market team.

 

You said:

"Maggs and Loaiza.

And if anyone wants Valentin, they could deal him off as well."

 

I can't believe some front runners who are fans.

Love Valentin when he wins a game; hate him when he

has a bad day.

[greg775]

p.s. We need a good lefthanded bat as well as the other

areas that have been well discussed.

[IlliniKrush]

This team needs to fill some holes. The starting pitcher needs to be done right away, a relief guy or two can come later. Perhaps a Finley type closer to the deadline as well.

 

But i'm not tossing in the season yet. Can this current squad take the division? I say doubtful. A few moves can fix that, especially with Magglio coming back. I don't think Minnesota is anything special. Fine, they've been winning the division lately, but that's because no one has challenged them for s*** for the most part. I mean, what have they done in the playoffs the last few years? Minnesota's pitching after Radke and Santana is pure garbage as far as i'm concerned. That lineup isn't over-imposing. Hell, they are due for a few more DL stints too - How much longer does Koskie hold up? That lineup isn't as good as ours. From the schedule stuff i'm reading, i haven't looked at the Twins yet, they have a tougher road coming. They aren't that great of a team, but they'll win the division "by default" if we don't do something soon.

 

This team needs a kick in the rear and some added confidence from KW. Ortiz would be real nice at this point. But for the time being, we have to tread some water and hope to play .500 the next week through the Cubs game and be right there going into the break and/or when a move comes to help this squad out. There's just too much talent laying around on this team not to take a weak AL Central. Way too much.

 

And if this all turns out to be crap and we are 9 games out at the deadline, then i'm wrong about everything and go sell some stuff and retool for next year.

[Ozzietheairedale]

Congratulations, you've just won the award for biggest reactionary one the board...

 

Frank Thomas has been one of the best players in  baseball over the last year.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/battin...&hand=a&pos=all

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/stats/ba...pa=200&ageMin=0

 

Plus he's not making much. ($6 MIL) -- And that's only slated to increase by 2 or 4 MIL next season....

 

Quite possibly that was the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this site.

You can't be serious. You just can't.

 

The fact that Thomas has been hitting well lately can't possibly make you want to keep him on this team if the right player in a trade comes along. This guy is not part of any long term White Sox future and has been a cancer many times during his career. He's half a player when he hits well and obviously less than that when he's hitting poorly. I would trade him in a heartbeat for a young starter with some potential or a position player who can both field and hit. IMO no DH can ever be considered "one of the best players in baseball" because he only plays half the game.

 

As for my knowledge of baseball, my guess is that most knowledgeable baseball people would say that the chances of the Sox winning the AL Central this year is less than the Twins. If that's true, then the GM needs to make a decision about next year and trade his tradable players at a time when they're most valuable.

[Gene Honda Civic]

You can't be serious.  You just can't. 

 

The fact that Thomas has been hitting well lately can't possibly make you want to keep him on this team if the right player in a trade comes along.  This guy is not part of any long term White Sox future and has been a cancer many times during his career.  He's half a player when he hits well and obviously less than that when he's hitting poorly.  I would trade him in a heartbeat for a young starter with some potential or a position player who can both field and hit.  IMO no DH can ever be considered "one of the best players in baseball" because he only plays half the game.

 

As for my knowledge of baseball, my guess is that most knowledgeable baseball people would say that the chances of the Sox winning the AL Central this year is less than the Twins.  If that's true, then the GM needs to make a decision about next year and trade his tradable players at a time when they're most valuable.

By your definition no pitcher could be considered "one of the best players in baseball" -- At best they pitch 1/5 of the teams innings. I guess they're worth 1/5 of a light-hitting-play-everyday-2nd baseman

 

Click the links. Frank has a top 5 OPS over since last ASB. He has an OPS over 1.000 since last June. The players who are ahead of him all make significantly more.

 

The only guys who compare in offensive production are Barry ($18MIL) Pujols (7MIL) Guerrero (11MIL) Helton (11.5MIL) Berkman (6.5MIL) Manny ($20MIL) Thome (12MIL)

 

Of those guys with simillar numbers over the past year... Pujols and Berkman are the only ones who have the same production for thier salary. Pujols is locked into a Huge,long deal. And Berkman is in his walk year and will make Much more than frank next season.

 

Would you rather have Delgado? @20MIL, but he plays the field.

 

Frank will be the best valued player in baseball next season. Only guys who have not become arbitration eligible can provide a better 'bang for your buck'

 

Frank is not going anywhere. That 'diminished skills' contract was one of the best things this organization has ever done.

[Goldmember]

By your definition no pitcher could be considered "one of the best players in baseball" -- At best they pitch 1/5 of the teams innings.  I guess they're worth 1/5 of a light-hitting-play-everyday-2nd baseman

 

Click the links.  Frank has a top 5 OPS over since last ASB.  He has an OPS over 1.000 since last June.  The players who are ahead of him all make significantly more.

 

The only guys who compare in offensive production are Barry ($18MIL) Pujols (7MIL) Guerrero (11MIL) Helton (11.5MIL) Berkman (6.5MIL) Manny ($20MIL) Thome (12MIL)

 

Of those guys with simillar numbers over the past year... Pujols and Berkman are the only ones who have the same production for thier salary. Pujols is locked into a Huge,long deal.  And Berkman is in his walk year and will make Much more than frank next season.

 

Would you rather have Delgado? @20MIL, but he plays the field.

 

Frank will be the best valued player in baseball next season. Only guys who have not become arbitration eligible can provide a better 'bang for your buck'

 

Frank is not going anywhere.  That 'diminished skills' contract was one of the best things this organization has ever done.

[Ozzietheairedale]

By your definition no pitcher could be considered "one of the best players in baseball" -- At best they pitch 1/5 of the teams innings.  I guess they're worth 1/5 of a light-hitting-play-everyday-2nd baseman

 

Click the links.  Frank has a top 5 OPS over since last ASB.  He has an OPS over 1.000 since last June.  The players who are ahead of him all make significantly more.

 

The only guys who compare in offensive production are Barry ($18MIL) Pujols (7MIL) Guerrero (11MIL) Helton (11.5MIL) Berkman (6.5MIL) Manny ($20MIL) Thome (12MIL)

 

Of those guys with simillar numbers over the past year... Pujols and Berkman are the only ones who have the same production for thier salary. Pujols is locked into a Huge,long deal.  And Berkman is in his walk year and will make Much more than frank next season.

 

Would you rather have Delgado? @20MIL, but he plays the field.

 

Frank will be the best valued player in baseball next season. Only guys who have not become arbitration eligible can provide a better 'bang for your buck'

 

Frank is not going anywhere.  That 'diminished skills' contract was one of the best things this organization has ever done.

Comparing a "great" pitcher with a "great" DH is just dopey.

 

Even though a pitcher plays only 1/5th of the games, he is responsible for every pitch thrown while he is playing. You know that that is infinitely more important than any DH. Maybe you were just trying to be argumentative because nobody could ever believe that.

 

I never said Frank wasn't an excellent offensive player - in the class of the players you named. I just said that he can't be put in a category of "greatest players in the game" because he doesn't play the field. Interesting how you didn't name 1 DH in that group. If somebody wanted him bad enough to give up young quality starting pitching, Frank is GAWN.

[israel4ever]

No they're not.

 

Cubs are a much better team than us, but Twins? You have got to be s***ting me here.

 

Unfortunately, Sox have a worthless liar for an owner, so we had to endure months of Koch, Jackson and 5th Starter, that's A LOT of damage done to this team right there that could have been easily avoided, with Sox firmly embedded in first place by 10+ games.    Easily.

 

Jackson is done with this organization.  So is Koch.    #3 Russ Ortiz is coming, AL hitter don't know him yet, so he should be very effective at first.  Diaz will be fine as a #5.    Garland threw brilliant first 4+ innings against the Cubs and 6+ innings against the Expos, he is gonna figure it out one of these days and become a good #4.

 

Maggs comes back, this offense is gonna roll people over - mid-June-mid-September are the two months when this already-intimidating offense does most of its damage.

 

Shingo, Marte are fine.    RHP in the Urbina mold should be acquired closer to the deadline.

 

Now we're just gonna have to bear down and win 3 of the next 5 games against the Cubs (2 against Maddux, 1 Zambrano, 1 Clement, 1 Rusch) and we'll be fine.

 

Let the Twins build a 3-4 game lead.    They are not going anywhere.

BrandoFan...Please explain how (why you think) the cubs are MUCH better than the Sox.

 

Granted they have a better staff 1-5 than we do, (although I'd take Buerhle over any of "their's", and maybe Loiaza too.) Their bullpen is at best only slightly better than ours, we are just as good as they are at C, 1B, LF and 2B, and better at all of the rest of the positions except for 3B.

 

They have a dumbass manager, we don't know if our's is a dumbass yet.

 

BTW...here's something for you to check out before annointing the Cubs as champs, check out their record against teams that are .500 or above. Anyone can fatten up against teams like NY, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, etc.

[Ozzietheairedale]

BrandoFan...Please explain how (why you think) the cubs are MUCH better than the Sox.

 

Granted they have a better staff 1-5 than we do, (although I'd take Buerhle over any of "their's", and maybe Loiaza too.) Their bullpen is at best only slightly better than ours, we are just as good as they are at C, 1B, LF and 2B, and better at all of the rest of the positions except for 3B.

 

They have a dumbass manager, we don't know if our's is a dumbass yet.

 

BTW...here's something for you to check out before annointing the Cubs as champs, check out their record against teams that are .500 or above. Anyone can fatten up against teams like NY, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, etc.

HUH??!!

 

You would take Buehrle or maybe Loaiza over Wood, Prior or Zambrano? Are you crazy? We have 3 major league starters and they have probably the best starting 5 in baseball.

 

I would take Barrett over Olivo, D. Lee over Konerko and Alou over Carlos.

 

I hate the Cubs. They will win their division by >5games before the season's over. The Sox will be around .500 in 3rd place.

[aboz56]

Why do you think trading Loaiza, Paulie, etc. is going to

make us a better team??

Yes the Cubs are going to beat the s*** out of us tomorrow.

But it's not time to sell the whole f***ing team.

Sometimes I think some fans act like we are a team with

money. We can ship all the players we want, we are still

going to have holes as a small market team.

 

You said:

"Maggs and Loaiza.

And if anyone wants Valentin, they could deal him off as well."

 

I can't believe some front runners who are fans.

Love Valentin when he wins a game; hate him when he

has a bad day.

I am being realistic, if we are out of the race, you trade away players who are going to be free agents and get prospects.

 

And I am not a front runner, I am just more realistic than some and try not to look past what is actually going on with this team. I'd love to see them stick in it these next few weeks and I think they can if they regain focus and play well, but saying they can and them going out and doing it are two different things.

[The Beast]

who is there to dump?

 

Konerko?

 

Valentin?

 

No pitchers anybody would want.

 

Maggs?

 

Injured and in his walk year.

Ordonez isn't going anywhere. In spite of what is said, I believe all these things and offers we hear are bulls***. We'll sign him.

 

Konerko shouldn't be traded. He could be, because he is on a hot streak right now.

 

Valentin couldn't be traded for a bucket of bad water drank by camels.

[BrandoFan]

BrandoFan...Please explain how (why you think) the cubs are MUCH better than the Sox.

Incomparably better starting pitching and a better bullpen. Right there, if you know anything about baseball, you'd see a big advantage. Not just an advantage, but a BIG one.

 

(Of course, you don't, in fact, know anything about baseball, so it's moot).

 

Then you have their offense, which ranks up there in the NL - it doesn't pad its stats in meaningless blow-outs quite as often as Sox offense does, but its consistency and ability to score off really tough pitchers (Morris, Oswalt, Mulder, etc) makes it almost as effective as ours. Close enough.

 

Ozzie made more tactical errors than Dusty has - there isn't a game that goes by that Ozzie doesn't make a minor (or a major) f***-up. So if I were you, I'd lay off a man who came within outs of winning consecutive WS with different teams, including a Cub squad that lost 90+ games the year before he took charge.

 

And NO, you really CAN'T make the differentiation that was discussed in the Sports Bar thread - your continuous moronic comments in the "don't annoint Cubs as champs just yet" only reinforce it time and time again.

[Soxbadger]

I guess I must watch a different team, because I do not think that the Cubs are that much better.

 

Starting pitching: Cubs more talented, but have injury questions. Prior has not looked right since coming back from the DL, and most of his fastballs were in the upper 80's yesterday as opposed to the mid to upper 90's we saw last year. He has been unable to go past the 5th inning since returning. Wood is on the DL, and when he gets back, if he gets back, I would expect the same treatment as Prior.

 

That leaves Maddux, Clement, and Zambrano. The reality is without Clement or Zambrano the Cubs would be dead in the water, Maddux is nothing more than a glorified 4-5 starter, who still has enough to be successful in the NL, but would get ripped in the AL.

 

That leaves the Cubs with significant starter question marks, just as the Sox.

 

Bullpen: I dont know where you get the Cubs bullpen is so great, most teams know that is their most glaring weakness. Outside of Farnsworth as set up man, and Hawkins as closer the Cubs have really no players in any set position. Not only that, but by the end of the year, Marte will be the better set up man, and Shingo will be the better closer.

 

Both teams face significant problems of bridging from the starter to the closer (6th 7th innings), and to not recognize that is foolish.

 

Line up: The Cubs have a good line up, but will not produce as consistently as the White Sox, especially since they have a few players with weaker plate discipline. When Maggs is healthy, the White sox have the better line up, when he is not the Cubs have a slight edge.

 

Coach: Both coachs make terrible mistakes, Ozzies are just becoming much more apparent. I would call it a draw because they are both player favorites, not because they are good at outdueling the other manager.

 

In the end, the White Sox have a better chance at the playoffs because the Astros and Cardinals are better than the Indians and Twins.

 

Both teams need to make a deal.

 

SB

[BrandoFan]

I never said Frank wasn't an excellent offensive player - in the class of the players you named. I just said that he can't be put in a category of "greatest players in the game" because he doesn't play the field. Interesting how you didn't name 1 DH in that group. If somebody wanted him bad enough to give up young quality starting pitching, Frank is GAWN.

 

Frank is one of the greatest players this sorry 2nd rate franchise has ever had.

 

Repent!

 

He doesn't play the field? Aww, would you rather he tried and cost the team outs and runs like Sosa, Giambi, Thome, McGriff, Mo Vaughn, Manny, Mora, D. Young, Piazza, Everett (CF) - hell, like half the greatest players of all time did when they were forced to play the field because there was no DH?

 

No thanks, Frank's a DH and only those who can play average-to-above-average defense should have an "advantage" over him.