BrandoFan Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Where the f*** IS it! Sorry, but this guy cannot survive as a front-line starter with a 88-91 mph heat. Simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Yes he can, he just has to pitch inside more. Elo still has good movement on his pitches and solid control. He'll be just fine, although I have noticed he no longer has that fastball, although I've seen him get it up their on rare ocassion. I also think the Sox gun is just off this year, because Prior wasn't throwing hard at all in his start against the Sox and I was at his previous start in Wrigley and according their gun he was throwing as hard as he was pre injury, which makes me think the tv gun the Sox use may play at least some effect. Hawk also brought up the effect he isn't pitching inside much. I also believe Elo isn't throwing his change near as much as he was last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Brando, remind me to wait till the end of the game before I respond to these type of threads again I stick to what I say, but he's looking like crap today. He's just not throwing strikes and he's living outside. He's letting hitters lean over the plate. Last year he'd go inside and brush guys back all day making that outside pitch so damn effective. Coop or someone needs to lay into him and whoop his ass a bit (figuratively speaking). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 The biggest difference, besides his control from last year, is that he simply doesn't have that awesome two seamer to compliment his cutter. It's gone, and I would like to know where it went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 The biggest difference, besides his control from last year, is that he simply doesn't have that awesome two seamer to compliment his cutter. It's gone, and I would like to know where it went. Thats the pitch he would throw inside on hitters and he just isn't throwing it any more. The 2 seamer typically gives you a little more velocity and your right, he isn't throwing it much of all this year. He's either going cutter or 4 seamer. If he mixes the 2 seamer back into the mix, you'll see a pitch effectively used up and in that would also come to the batters a little harder, adding a little bit more velocity variance, something Elo did incredibly well last year with all 3 fastballs he threw. Then he mixed that with his slider and changeup quite well. You just need to watch tape, last year Elo went right at hitters, this year he isn't really. He's still been effective, but I think thats whats leading to the homers. The fact he's not throwing the 2 seamer in or anything in allows the hitters to reach and really bomb the pitches up in the zone and outside (yes they are mistakes, but they are mistakes that can be averted by pitching inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I can't speak for his velocity, but I think teams are ready for him this year. We saw as the season ended last year that teams laid off his cutter and he had no chance. He has to go back to pitching inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I can't speak for his velocity, but I think teams are ready for him this year. We saw as the season ended last year that teams laid off his cutter and he had no chance. He has to go back to pitching inside. When you think about it, he stopped pitching inside at some point last season. He was still effective, but your right, teams now are laying off of it and since he isn' pitching in they are starting to feel comfortable. He needs a few outings where he is just going out trying to get the rep of being a head hunter. Throw the damn ball in, in, and inner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Some opposing hitters need to end up on their asses once in a while, to keep 'em honest. Outside, outside, outside will NOT get it done forever. Give him credit, though, E-Lo's been battling all year, even without those 2-4 mph and without the 2-seamer. He's mentally tough out there and makes a good pitch most of the time when he really needs to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Some opposing hitters need to end up on their asses once in a while, to keep 'em honest. Outside, outside, outside will NOT get it done forever. Give him credit, though, E-Lo's been battling all year, even without those 2-4 mph and without the 2-seamer. He's mentally tough out there and makes a good pitch most of the time when he really needs to. Heck ya, other then his past start or two, he'd had gotten himself into a groove and still has a pretty damn respectable ERA (4.19 or so) and is just a good start or two from being back in the 3's. He's not doing what he did last year, but he isn't whast wrong with the club and I could easily see him putting it back together and really going on a role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 Sorry but Cubs pretty much T-off on him today. 10 hits, 4 runs, a couple of line-outs and two mistakes that Todd Walker (would have been a 3 run homer) and Alou (2-run) caught off the end of the bat. To be blunt, offense won the game today. Look at Sosa's first HR: 88 mph, knee-high, middle-of-the-late fastball. Sosa's second bomb: 86 mph cutter that didn't cut thigh-high middle of the plate. Are you f***ing kidding me! Sosa has lost that vicious HOF quickness he had when he was 'roiding in 1998-2001 but he still has SCARY all-field power so godforbid should his bat catch up to your mediocre fastball. It happened twice today. You'd be suprised how much more effective his cutter, slider and change-up will be when/if he regains a 92-94 mph heat - he doesn't even have to throw it that often, but just to let hitters know that if they dare to sit on his off-speed stuff, he they will find themselevs in the 0-2 hole every at bat. And quite frankly Esteban's location hasn't been there this season, either. He is always falling behind, afraid of the bat as Hawk would say - he knows he doesn't have the stuff he had in 2003. I don't know what E-Lo problem is - it could be mechanical or it could be pharmaceutical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 I can't speak for his velocity, but I think teams are ready for him this year. . By the time he faced Yankees last year, they already knew he was a Cy Young candidate. He f***in' shut them down so bad, it hurt to watch. Pinpoint location, smooth motion, great command and 92-94 mph fastball that produced a lot of tardy swings, and once Yankmees started to cheat heat a little, E-Lo's change, slider and then-devastating cutter did the rest. He's just not the same pitcher this year - less arm speed, less velocity, less break on cutter, with change and slider less effective because of it. So now he's gotta stay away from the hitters more, there is less room for error - falls behind much more than he used to.......Without velocity, E-Lo is a #3 AT BEST. Let's f***ing see the pitcher who we're supposed to pay 7-8+ Mill a year for in the off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 He needs a few outings where he is just going out trying to get the rep of being a head hunter. Throw the damn ball in, in, and inner. Do you know what happens when Alou, Ramirez and Lee get sub-90 mph fastballs middle-in? It's not as simple as throwing inside. You have to have impecable control (Elo has been less than sharp this season and he knows it) and to have something ON the pitch that hitters fear, velocity or movement or both -- otherwise ML hitters are either gonna turn-n-burn or they'll keep taking the ball inside and wait for a hitter's count. Just as was the case with PRE-injury Rauch, E-Lo is not a fireballer but he's NOT a finesse pitcher, either. Both pitchers need to be in the low-90's on their fastball in order to set up location and breaking stuff. I still remember Rauch in 2002 abslotely dominating the 94-win Twin squad - he rushed it up there at 91-94 and his curve and slider were untouchable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 8, 2004 Author Share Posted July 8, 2004 He just needs to pitch inside more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Where the f*** IS it! Sorry, but this guy cannot survive as a front-line starter with a 88-91 mph heat. Simple as that. Yes he can. He pitches like a pussy. Plain and simple. It's not his stuff. It is his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Last year everything was on the corner, in or outside. This year he's missisng a lot over the plate, and getting hit hard. Last year - magic. This year - hittable. Next year - somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 It just seem like he has gotten greedy and complacent. Don't let the door hit ya on the ass e-lo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguana Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 Where the f*** IS it! Sorry, but this guy cannot survive as a front-line starter with a 88-91 mph heat. Simple as that. Randy Johnson, where are you!!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 8, 2004 Author Share Posted July 8, 2004 j Yes he can. He pitches like a pussy. Plain and simple. Pitching like a pussy? That's what people were saying about Wright when he was nibbling. You know what happened next? He went AT batters and was prompty HAMMERED into submission.....and went right back to nibbling. Say what you will about "dreaded" walks - I'll take them over "dreaded" HR any day. It's not his stuff. It is his head. It's his stuff. And his control. Less velocity, less movement, average control = not Loaiza of 2003. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 I think his problem is that he's giving up too many runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 8, 2004 Author Share Posted July 8, 2004 Randy Johnson, where are you!!?? I made that post during the Sunday win over the Cubs and people were barking at me for speaking against Loaiza when he got a Win - which was coming on the heels of Tribe Hammering no less. Two starts and an All-Star selection later, I hope they start realizing something is REALLY wrong with E-Lo. As in "this guy is supposed to lead us to the World Series??!!" wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 As in "this guy is supposed to lead us to the World Series?!" wrong. maybe if we trade him to the Twins for Radke or Santana, we can get to the World Series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted July 8, 2004 Share Posted July 8, 2004 I think his problem is that he's giving up too many runs. What else is new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 8, 2004 Author Share Posted July 8, 2004 maybe if we trade him to the Twins for Radke or Santana, we can get to the World Series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Ozzie and Coop need to put Alomar behind the plate for ELo's next start and tell him to force ELo to pitch inside all damn game. And use all 3 of those pitches. ELo might not have any respect for Burke and/or Davis, but he'll have it for Alomar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 Ozzie and Coop need to put Alomar behind the plate for ELo's next start and tell him to force ELo to pitch inside all damn game. ....and he won't make it out of the 3rd inning. Rockets down the LF line galore. Again......Pitching inside is not panacea. It only works when you have good stuff and good control - otherwise you're putting the ball in their wheelhouse. Loaiza has had neither in his last 4 starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.