Soxbadger Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 This trade is some what of a suprise, but makes sense when you look at a few things. 1) Garcia was considered the best SP available, we did not settle at all. We went out and got a guy who every 5th day will give us a chance to win, whether our offense is there or not. 2) The Sox at this point may feel that Reed is not needed in their system so they should take advantage of his value now. Borchard is doing well, but with Anderson looking good, they still have outfield options without Reed. 3) It was clear Sox pitchers were not comfortable with Olivo anymore. Whether right or wrong, if our pitchers were unable to pitch with confidence to Olivo, it was better that we went out and got a Garcia type player Now I hope that there is an announcement that they are going to work on resigning Garcia. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Just read the WSCR post about KW talking to the Pirates. Guys, we have to give the White Sox front office credit, they are doing their best to give us a winner. That is so infrequent as a Chicago sports fan. We have to give talent to get talent, making a trade is not easy in baseball. There are way more variables than any of us know. There was something on the Pittsburgh board last week, where the Sox were going to wind up with Kendall and Benson and $12-16 million, for Crede and Olivo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANS Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 baseball tonight also mentioned that the Sox weren't happy with miggy's calling of games. did anyone else hear this? and is this why Burke has been seeing some time recently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 how about Brandon Inge for our catcher? having a good year. he's on the DL with a broken finger though. anybody know how long he'll be out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 You said: 1) if we resign Garcia, its a good deal 2) if we win a World Series, I don't care if Olivo is the second coming of Fisk. 3) what'd you expect Seattle to take? A few AA guys, a bag of Starbucks coffee, and some Chicago-style pizza? I would agree with 1 and 2. But I think 3.) should read, if we don't win the division, KW is fired. I think we could have gotten Garcia without giving up Olivo. I mean look at what the Royals got for Beltran?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 What is this I hear of Andrew Jones? I just got home and am very confused right now. So, we have Garcia and Davis along with cash and gave up Olivo, Reed, and another guy? And are there actually talks between KW and these other guys or is it just speculation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 baseball tonight also mentioned that the Sox weren't happy with miggy's calling of games. did anyone else hear this? and is this why Burke has been seeing some time recently If they don't like how he calls games, Cooper could call it in the dugout. Ironically, a friend of mine lives in Cleveland and is a big Indian fan. Sandy Alomar was routinely criticized for how he called a game. The staff ERA was usually a full point higher when he was catching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 What is this I hear of Andrew Jones? I just got home and am very confused right now. So, we have Garcia and Davis along with cash and gave up Olivo, Reed, and another guy? And are there actually talks between KW and these other guys or is it just speculation? There was talk the other day of the Sox getting Russ Ortiz from Atlanta for Rauch and prospects. Now all of the sudden the deal has become Ortiz and Jones for Magglio and mybe Rauch. There's a long ass thread on it that I'll bump... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 3) what'd you expect Seattle to take? A few AA guys, a bag of Starbucks coffee, and some Chicago-style pizza? alright how about 2 bags of starbucks coffee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I'm getting real excited! Just imagine: Loaiza Buehrle Garcia Ortiz Garland PLUS....the possible additions of Jason Kendall and Andruw Jones. Go KW!!!!!! I'll take it. And Just for fun... Harris/Uribe Kendall Maggs Thomas Lee Konerko Valentin Crede Sandy/Davis/Burke or... Harris/Uribe Kendall Thomas Jones/Drew/Finley Lee Konerko Valentin Crede Davis/Sandy/Burke Loaiza/Garcia Buehrle Garcia/Loaiza Ortiz/Garland Garland/Shoey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 What is this I hear of Andrew Jones? I just got home and am very confused right now. So, we have Garcia and Davis along with cash and gave up Olivo, Reed, and another guy? And are there actually talks between KW and these other guys or is it just speculation? Yes, the Sox have reportedly have been talking to Attlanta about Maggs/Rauch for Ortiz/A. Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANS Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 If they don't like how he calls games, Cooper could call it in the dugout. Ironically, a friend of mine lives in Cleveland and is a big Indian fan. Sandy Alomar was routinely criticized for how he called a game. The staff ERA was usually a full point higher when he was catching. yeah I agree, I was just shocked that they would let that be known, come on the guy is still learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 They also said they were having issues with the way Olivo was calling games... Interesting statement..... I was seriously pondering that yesterday when Felix was pitching well with Sandy behind the plate. What's our record when Mo called the game compared to other catchers? I'd do the research but I'm too lazy! As for our possible catching solution...I know this is just out of the blue but.... JASON KENDALL? CWSOX45 (damn someone already beat me about trading for Kendall....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Jugger I agree we need another starter, but we're also in the s***tiest of s*** divisions and I don't think we needed to part with Olivo to get Garcia. Especially when we have no suitable catcher. Ben Davis is a joke. I have followed his career. I mean if we have a hole at catcher now and in the future what good is it filling the other hole on the mound? I just think we overpaid. I hope Freddie dominates but it seems stupid to overpay. That's my take. That same kind of thinking has ruled this division for several years now. Nobody gives Minn it's due. The fact remains that with 2 wks left in the season we are still chasing the Twinkies. If we lose 2/3 in that series we are 3 gb going into Wrigley. Then we close the 1/2 with ANA & SEA. Since Garcia last pitched Friday, he's good to go Wed in MINN. That means Garcia should get no less than 4 starts. Garcia might be the difference betw winning or losing the MINN series. He has good numbers against the Twinks. He is a much better grab than Ortiz. He could very well be the difference betw a game ahead or 3 games back in the next 5 days. It's ridiculous to keep going season after season hoping, wishing, or believing the Twinkies are not going to play their best ball in the 2nd half. Minn made the trade to get Shannon Stewart last year & that was a big lift for their team. They won't be afraid to do something like that again. Plus the SOX still have to face their nemesis (The Tiggers) in the 2nd half. 11-8 with the worst team in baseball last yr was not good. That team has improved greatly. They still have the staff to make games close & that's when pitching & D make the biggest difference. Any one who thinks this was a bad trade is ignorant of what this trade means RIGHT NOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 What is means right now is we have no catcher. Agreed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 What is means right now is we have no catcher. Agreed? How can you say that when he was platooning with Alomar & Burke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 What is means right now is we have no catcher. Agreed? we've got ben davis :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 Just read the WSCR post about KW talking to the Pirates. Guys, we have to give the White Sox front office credit, they are doing their best to give us a winner. That is so infrequent as a Chicago sports fan. We have to give talent to get talent, making a trade is not easy in baseball. There are way more variables than any of us know. I fail to give the front office credit for ANYTHING. Where was all the concern for starting pitching during the offseason? While other teams were shopping, Sox management sat on their hands. Our stellar rotation of Buehrle/Loaiza/Garland/Schoeneweis/Wright was consistently labeled as "good enough to win this division;" nothing more. KW would point out Twins lost key starters, and we (Sox fans) were going to be pleasantly surprised. While the rotation has kept us in the race, we were aware (from the beginning) a trade would have to occur midseason. Well, the trade went down alright; with the subtraction of our future catcher/corner outfielder. We'll see how this pans out throughout this season, and the subsequent years to follow. My assessment: we'll look back on this trade and realize KW made a huge mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I hope we land Kendall but not giving them TOO much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I hope we land Kendall but not giving them TOO much. I don't know how that's coming into play. After this season, Kendall's locked up for 3 more years at $34M. There would be no possible way to sign Garcia and/or Mags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I'll take it. And Just for fun... Harris/Uribe Kendall Maggs Thomas Lee Konerko Valentin Crede Sandy/Davis/Burke or... Harris/Uribe Kendall Thomas Jones/Drew/Finley Lee Konerko Valentin Crede Davis/Sandy/Burke Loaiza/Garcia Buehrle Garcia/Loaiza Ortiz/Garland Garland/Shoey You're not thinking. Kendall wouldn't be our CF or 2B....sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Tizzle's post is awesome! 100 percent agreement. Good point Jugger. Miguel wasn't catching every day. I'd catch whomever has the best arm right now even if the guy hits .150. If Davis has the best chance of throwing somebody out I would go with him every day the rest of the year even if he hits .099. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Unless the Pirates are willin to pay a lot of Kendall's salary, we shouldn't trade for him. Other catcher options we could target include Mike Matheny, Brian Schneider, A.J Piersynki, Jose Molina, Charles Johnson, Greg Myers and Johnny Estrada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomsonmi Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 It took me about 30 minutes to read thru this thread. I'm still contemplating the impact of this deal. At a simple level, if we don't resign Garcia this is a very bad deal. If we resign him for less than $10 million per year its not so bad a deal. Garcia is not worth 1/6 our payroll. He's good but not that good. KW must have his sights set on another catcher. There's no way he's planning on this three-headed monster doing all the work the rest of the year. I like Miguel Olivo but there's been a ridiculous amount of overstating his ability in this thread. He has a great arm, good speed, a mediocre bat, and poor game management skills. I'm not saying he sucked because I did think he was our best catcher, but there's no way he's can be considered irreplaceable and all-star prognostications are incredibly optimistic. He's never going to be Ivan Rodriguez, Jorge Posada,or Javy Lopez. And, he doesn't have the promise of Joe Mauer or Victor Martinez. Despite my feelings there, KW paid a high price. We better resign Freddie and we better find a starting catcher. I credit KW for his guts. I hope there's a method behind his madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco72 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 By all accounts, KW has been working on trying to get Garcia for at least several weeks now. I don't think this was a panic trade or a gross overpayment. As I posted before, the outcome will determine how good the trade was in the long term (Sox WS, playoffs, etc). If the Sox wanted the best pitcher available, there was a price to pay. Better that than have him pitch against the Sox for NYY, BOS, etc. Its not the same as Beltran because of the "signability" issue. The Sox have a chance to resign Garcia (not sure what percent I'd give that right now), but Beltran is 100% going to become a FA. As for giving up Olivo, for those who think it is a gross overpayment, why hasn't be been playing 4-5 days a week? Why has Burke been getting "Olivo's" starts? I really do like Olivo, but as has been posted, clearly something was strange at the Circle K. You don't just stop playing a guy that you are considering trading (you showcase him)... unless something was going on behind the scenes. It doesn't mean Olivo won't be very good / great in the future, but trading a guy who started only about half the games this month isn't exactly leaving the current team in dire straights. Someone posted that they would be happy with a solid defensive catcher who calls a good game and has a good arm. It seems that Davis fits that description, even if his offense blows goats. (That info on Davis is hearsay, so if someone has real facts, please correct me). If our catcher (whoever it is) can bunt, move runners over, hit sac flies, etc. from the #9, I'm sure the Sox offense will be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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