Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I love this trade...yes it hurts to lose MO, but come on guys MO does not hit right handed pitching well .... everyone here knows it In Seattle, his pwer #s will suffer even more in that ball park. I am willing to bet with anyone here that MO will not be an all star ever He will hit 0.250-0.275....I prefer Garcia...that is a stud that can shut down teh darn twinkies and get us to compete against the As and the Yanks And would you rather lose Crede or Reed...yes, Crede has struggled here, but we have many more OFers in our system than 3rd basemen....and Crede will get his act in the second half....we have seen it before You do agree that if we're not able to sign Garcia long term this deal is a bust, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 You do agree that if we're not able to sign Garcia long term this deal is a bust, right? No, not if Garcia leads to the Sox to the playoffs. I don't want to sit back and watch. The Sox have done that for years (minus last year) and it hasn't gotten them somewhere. They are finally gonna try and grab the series by the horns and not wait for it to fall in their lap but go and get it. Who knows if it will work, but I like this approach a heck of a lot better. Plus, if you go out and make a push, then your gonna improve attendance, which bottomline is what its going to take to continue to make this club better and better (ie, higher payroll). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 No, not if Garcia leads to the Sox to the playoffs. I don't want to sit back and watch. The Sox have done that for years (minus last year) and it hasn't gotten them somewhere. They are finally gonna try and grab the series by the horns and not wait for it to fall in their lap but go and get it. Who knows if it will work, but I like this approach a heck of a lot better. Plus, if you go out and make a push, then your gonna improve attendance, which bottomline is what its going to take to continue to make this club better and better (ie, higher payroll). Well. If he leads us to the Alcs or even the series. Then I agree. But just making the playoffs and bowing out "2000" style won't be good enough. Not in my mind anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I know it's late but like many, I am not a fan of this trade. Too much to give, but hey I do like Garcia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 I know it's late but like many, I am not a fan of this trade. Too much to give, but hey I do like Garcia. Apparently KW has yet (even after the Todd Ritchie debacle) to learn the fine art of negotiating. He folds like a tent, wets the bed, collapses under pressure, any expression which describes KW's inability to work a fair deal is appropriate. Its just so damn irritating how every year "he goes for it" and every year he continues to deplete our minor leauge system. And for what? Since KW's reign began in 2000 he has yet to assemble a playoff caliber team. What happens when Sweeney/Andersen begin to hit their way up our minor league system? Are they prime bait in 2005 when KW desires to "win it all".......for the 5th year in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Apparently KW has yet (even after the Todd Ritchie debacle) to learn the fine art of negotiating. He folds like a tent, wets the bed, collapses under pressure, any expression which describes KW's inability to work a fair deal is appropriate. Its just so damn irritating how every year "he goes for it" and every year he continues to deplete our minor leauge system. And for what? Since KW's reign began in 2000 he has yet to assemble a playoff caliber team. What happens when Sweeney/Andersen begin to hit their way up our minor league system? Are they prime bait in 2005 when KW desires to "win it all".......for the 5th year in a row. So I take it you're upset over Reed leaving? Dude, We weren't gonna fleece the Mariners aka "what the Cubs did to the Pirates last year". To Get Garcia we were gonna have to give up one of our top prospects. Reed could turn out to be great. Maybe he'll just be good. Hell, Maybe he'll suck ass. But we got a proven major league starter for him. And it appears will have him for a long time. If anything. you should be upset about us losing, Olivo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Apparently KW has yet (even after the Todd Ritchie debacle) to learn the fine art of negotiating. He folds like a tent, wets the bed, collapses under pressure, any expression which describes KW's inability to work a fair deal is appropriate. Its just so damn irritating how every year "he goes for it" and every year he continues to deplete our minor leauge system. And for what? Since KW's reign began in 2000 he has yet to assemble a playoff caliber team. What happens when Sweeney/Andersen begin to hit their way up our minor league system? Are they prime bait in 2005 when KW desires to "win it all".......for the 5th year in a row. The farm system is used to help the major league club. Whether its bringing up talent to play in the bigs or trading talent to acquire major leaguers, the goal is to help the major league team make the playoffs. This trade gives the Sox a better chance of winning this year. I agree losing Olivo and Reed is tough. Yet SP's like Garcia are hard to find, and expensive this year with all the injuries. KW could have setttled for a Kris Benson type SP. But how much would a guy like him have helped? Not much I'm afraid. Garcia is the best of the bunch. Reed must be viewed as a corner OFer. I like his OBP but a RF or LFer should have more power. Anderson is probably viewed as the CFer of the future, while Sweeney, and Borchard, are more likely to provide the power typical of a corner OFer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 If anything. you should be upset about us losing, Olivo. I am just as upset about Olivo. Because his name escaped the brunt of my post doesn't mean I have misplaced his value to our team. What crawls under my skin is browsing through several fan sites (mlb.com, rotoworld) and reading threads expressing the general sentiment KW vastly overpaid for Garcia. It scares me to believe what he's capable of. Other GM's must salivate when the phone rings and Williams in on the other line. ................. I'm done complaining about this trade (for now). I've given this trade time to sink in, and although I generally believed KW was fleeced I'm willing to move on. First step towards acceptance is singing Garcia to a long-term contract. Maybe then I'll begin to feel better about trading Reed/Olivo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 flash, seriously man if we wanted to do anything special this year, KW bits the bullet, and OVERPAYS he knows he did it, we know he did it, everyone knows he did it........ AND MOST PEOPLE KNOW WHY!!!!!!!!!! KW sees that we have a good team, that after a couple holes are plugged.. can get GREAT... like WS champs GREAT ozzies daughter is married to garcia, he will sign i hated seeing Olivo go, Reed wasnt that bad because we have a ton of OF tallent down on the farm just get on the bus and buckle in for a fun ride this year brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Hell yes KW overpaid but in this case for the best available pitcher out there I believe he had to. Hell the Score was reporting that Seattle was asking for Olivo and Crede instead. KW said no way to that, and thankfully so. Its not often the Yankmees lose out on someone they really want so I give kudos to KW.....lets just hope KW can sign Garcia to a long term deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Also does anyone have info on how much cash was involved with this as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 After several hours of letting this trade sink in, I generally like it. I don't think KW overpaid for Garcia. I was never all that enamored with Jeremy Reed. I think Borchard is our best insurance if Magglio walks. In fact, I wish he was patrolling RF everyday while Maggs is on the DL. Olivo is a great kid. However, when Buehrle requested Burke catch for him rather than Olivo, I mentally questioned the reasoning for that. That was a sign that something just wasn't kosher. It was something that kind of fell through the cracks, as it was not an event of major impact at the time. But, still, it caused me to proverbially raise my eyebrows. As far as Morse goes, whatever. The suspension probably played into him being a part of this deal. The Sox have the kid they got for Koch, plus a couple of higher round draft picks at short from the last two drafts. We've been screaming for a pitcher. Garcia was the best available and we got him. I was stunned when it was Olivo that was traded, but no one saw that coming. At least, no one speculated about here or in the media. This trade was the first step in KW putting together what he feels can be a championship caliber roster. Someone mentioned that KW has been talking to Pittsburg. If so, I'm thinking either Kendall/Benson or Kendall/Wells could be heading this way. I have no clue what it would take to get one of these pairs, but it's intriguing, to say the least. One possibility of acquiring a catcher that hasn't been mentioned yet, but just might be doable .... IRod. Just a thought on my part, no inside info or rumors here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I assumed something was up at the catcher position with Burke hanging around so much and playing different positions. I was bracing for an Alomar retirement announcement or Burke getting traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Hell yes KW overpaid but in this case for the best available pitcher out there I believe he had to. Hell the Score was reporting that Seattle was asking for Olivo and Crede instead. KW said no way to that, and thankfully so. Its not often the Yankmees lose out on someone they really want so I give kudos to KW.....lets just hope KW can sign Garcia to a long term deal. Yes, Seattle wanted both Olivo and Crede. The Sox then asked Seattle for a 72 hour window to see if they could work out an extension with Garcia. When Seattle then said they were willing to take Reed instead of Crede, KW pulled the trigger on the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Also does anyone have info on how much cash was involved with this as well? We are paying the rest of Garcia's salary this season, $3,700,000 I believe. Seattle is paying the rest of Ben Davis' contract which is $700,000 and finishes this season as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 One more thought. Someone said that KW acting like the cat that swallowed the canary when it came to the possibility of Garcia signing an extension. If you recall, there was a certain #1 pitcher that Reinsdorf gave Williams some payroll freedom to sign, but that Tub-oGoo elected to go to Anahiem. Maybe, just maybe, that same money is still available to KW and JR has given the okay that Garcia is a suitable replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 ya but havent people talked about Davis' 'potential' for several years now??? Ben Davis is the Jon Garland of catchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 You do agree that if we're not able to sign Garcia long term this deal is a bust, right? Garcia is a free agent. Do you think he cares what the Sox gave up to get him? I doubt we will get him to not file for FA. So we are in the same bidding war as we would have been in anyway. The only difference is he will know exactly what he is getting himself into. That may help, it may hurt. If we can stop him from filing for FA, then we did gain something, I just do not see that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Has there ever been a father-in-law on the same team as his son-in-law? That is odd. Rondell White is Jerry Manuel's son in-law. They were both in Chicago a few years ago when Rondell was on the Cubs. I dunno about son in-law though on the same team as the father in-law. A few sons playing on dad's team's though. Brian/Hal McRae. The Boones The Alous Yogi and Dale Berra More I am sure somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 "Hey JR, watch me pull a top starter outta my hat . . ." "It Worked!! . . ." Was I psychic making that pic or what.... eh, Tex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 "Hey JR, watch me pull a top starter outta my hat . . ." "It Worked!! . . ." Was I psychic making that pic or what.... eh, Tex? thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Rondell White is Jerry Manuel's son in-law. They were both in Chicago a few years ago when Rondell was on the Cubs. I dunno about son in-law though on the same team as the father in-law. A few sons playing on dad's team's though. Brian/Hal McRae. The Boones The Alous Yogi and Dale Berra More I am sure somewhere. He was JM's son in law. By the time JM and Rondell squared up in the crosstown classic-that marriage...........................it gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFan Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Rondell White is Jerry Manuel's son in-law. They were both in Chicago a few years ago when Rondell was on the Cubs. I dunno about son in-law though on the same team as the father in-law. A few sons playing on dad's team's though. Brian/Hal McRae. The Boones The Alous Yogi and Dale Berra More I am sure somewhere. can't forget about the Ripken's. There was a time when Cal, his dad, and brother were on the same team. I can't recall the year, but I do have the baseball card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Im getting excited. I LOVE that KW had the balls to go out and get the top pitcher available. Barring any more trades (which I hop DOES NOT happen)....Loaiza, Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, and Schoney CAN take us to the playoffs with a Al Central title but Loaiza, Buhrle, Garcia, Ortiz, and Garland CAN take us far in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Oh yeah!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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