Texsox Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Solid trade for 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I'll chime in as it's my first appearance of the day... When I heard it on the radio, I jumped for joy. I loved it. Then when I got home and found out it was for our "catcher of the future" Olivo, our "untouchable" Reed, and a quality short stop in Morse, my face went from happy/excited to unsure to mad/shocked and confused. Now that I've had time to sink it in, I still have a similar feel. Giving up Olivo is just wrong, period. Plain and simple, its just not right. Giving up Reed is fine by me even though I liked him alot, but should not have been traded considering Kenny said he was "untouchable." Giving up Morse is fine, you give something to get something. With that being said, I love the news. Freddy Garcia to the White Sox made my day when I first heard it, but boy oh freakin' boy did Kenny give up a lot. I might have rather had Ortiz for 20 cents on the dollar, but thats just me. ^^^ The many faces of redandwhite today. It all starts and ends with JR. 2004 is just a continuation of the Penny-Pinching of 2002 & 2003 (although he is just a little more magnanimous this year). That's why they stuck Wrights and Kochs down our throats when it was obvious they were done, and saw it as more feasible to head into the season with Schow as #4 instead of #5. By mid-May Seattle was done. Bavasi knew that. Kenny knew that. Freddy has a very good ERA, but after 2002-2003 struggles and his 2004 Safeco ERA, why should they get the farm for him in May again? What the hell is wrong with Reed (.400 OBP in AAA back then) + Rauch (very good ERA in that park) + another position prospect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I'm surprised by the negative reaction I'm seeing concerning the trade. MO is a nice player, but when exactly did he become Johnny Bench? He's a nice player with a good arm, but he has thrown out a lesser percentage of baserunners than Alomar this season. The bottom line is that the Mariners weren't going to give Garcia away for nothing. We've been crying about our lack of pitching, but now that we actually had to give someone to them to get him, we're all crying. It's sad to see him go, but I'll like watching Garcia take the bump. As for Reed, I guess KW feels that Borchard can play right next season, assuming Maggs isn't back, and then Anderson, Sweeney, and Nanita will fill the OF down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Funny thing is the trade talk is up again. Ramon Ortiz of the Angels is asking to be traded AGAIN. The Sox were believed to have offered Valentin for him. Do you think they will try to land him? I know he wants to be a starter only but has done a great job in the pen and not so hot as a starter. I say yes if he is willing to be in the pen but forget him as a starter. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Valentin has actually been very good this year and is an integral part of our offense. To trade him for Ramon Ortiz at this point would be beyond dumb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I'd be interested in Ramon Ortiz, whether the Sox used him as a starter or a reliever, however, someone like Russ Ortiz would be better. If the Angels just wanted the Sox to pick up the remaining portion of his contract so the Angels can go out and make another move, then it could be good. But the Angels will want major league help and I wouldn't give up Neal Cotts, which is probably what they would want. However, if they would do Kelly Wunsch and a mid level prospect, then done and done. HE's been great out of the bullpen this season in Anaheim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 KW IS THE MAN, a true GM, and a businessman that knows when the ONE SHOT comes U Must seize it. You can't be serious. 2003 was our shot. A really special year in many respects. What does JR do? Imposes a hard payroll of 53 Mill, one that would not get broken even when the team "went for it" in July. Couple of extra Mill spent on the 5th starter in May would have put us over the top in the division and given the team a chance to win the Series - that was the year when Boston didn't have Foulke and Shilling, and Yankees -- didn't have A-Rod, Sheffield, Gordon, Brown and Vasquez. 2004 is another shot. What does our management do? Insists on playing Koch and the 5th starter garbage. THAT was the reason why this team could never get on a real winning streak (ask Giants, D-Rays, Rangers, Cardinals, Yankees as to what exactly that means) and pull away, even after winning some emotional-ass games earlier in the year. That was the reason why after losing the game on Wed to the Indians, Sox dropped to 4 games over .500 and were facing a real possiblity of falling apart 2002-style heading into the Cubs-Twin-Cub series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I dont see the need of trading Valentin but I do see the need of improving the pitching staff. Jose has been very good offensively, comes through in the clutch, and has been surprisingly good defensively. For the right price (not Jose), I'd like Ramon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Valentin has actually been very good this year and is an integral part of our offense. To trade him for Ramon Ortiz at this point would be beyond dumb It would be borderline insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 It would be borderline insanity. Almost crossing the line of sane and insane! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I like this deal better than the Mags for Ortiz and A. Jones deal, so if anything I hope this stopped that trade. Ben Davis, though is not much of a bat, can at least call a game, and throw as well, 44% last year is not too shabby. We have enough hitting, pitching is the key. My understanding, listening to Murphy and Huber coming in to work today, is that not too many of the pitchers on the Sox were happy pitching to Olivo, and management said that he didn't call a good game. I see them making another move for a catcher, Santiago before getting hurt, Kendall (too much $), Zaun from Toronto would be okay, Charles Johnson, would be good, Estrada would be the best, so if they would make the Mags deal, heres my deal: Mags, Rauch, 2 minor leaguers for Ortiz, Estrada and JD Drew. Or a deal with Anaheim, Mags and Valentin for Ortiz, Eckstein and someone else, bullpen help. :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I;d like Estrada or Kendall. BUT....if the Indians fall a little further out of the race, maybe we could sway them to give us Victor Martinez??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Dont see that happening, he is probably there most untouchable player, first they are only a couple of games behind us, they are young, and we are in their division. What does he have almost 60 RBIS this year already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 C'mon guys. Get real. Estrada? Martinez? Nobody gives away young stud catchers. Ummmmmmmm ... Wait a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 C'mon guys. Get real. Estrada? Martinez? Nobody gives away young stud catchers. Ummmmmmmm ... Wait a minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I don't see Martinez happening at all, Estrada, if the Braves want Mags so bad, lets rip them off. How bout Lieberthal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I;d like Estrada or Kendall. BUT....if the Indians fall a little further out of the race, maybe we could sway them to give us Victor Martinez??? Victor Martinez is going no where, and for good reason. That kid is incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Victor Martinez is going no where, and for good reason. That kid is incredible. Yes, but the Tribe has another catcher that I believe may be almost as good as Martinez sitting on the DL. Josh Bard. Wasn't he supposed to be a masher AND a good receiver? Or, why not one of the 52 Molina brothers in Anaheim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 How bout Lieberthal? Why would a 1st place team trade away there only goood catcher? Estrada on the other hand is gettable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I;d like Estrada or Kendall. BUT....if the Indians fall a little further out of the race, maybe we could sway them to give us Victor Martinez??? You sound like you should be rooting fo the Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 You sound like you should be rooting fo the Cubs. :fyou :finger :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Estrada on the other hand is gettable. I dont think so. He's a cornerstone of their rebuilding process, and Atlanta demanded he be included in the deal for Millwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 If we give them something good, trust me....they wouldnt even hesitate to trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 He's a cornerstone of their rebuilding process, and Atlanta demanded he be included in the deal for Millwood. Talked to my Phillies friend the other day and he thinks they got jobbed when they gave away Estrada. I think he's right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 If we give them something good, trust me....they wouldnt even hesitate to trade him. I don't trust you....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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