popeye089 Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Aparently a lot of people don't know the real story of the fix of 1919 Movies are just that movies PLease go to this sight It is a sight for true baseball fans who love baseball & it's history http://www.pubdim.net/baseballlibrary/ Look up Joe Jackson It will tell you anything about any player, the teams they played for, & they have links to articles from as far back as 1919 that will prove he was innocent and a lot of the other players. Jackson was even going to testify against the Swede, & had to have armed guards because his life was threatened. This is the baseball library not some temple to the Sox. This is the truth and a lot of the articles will prove that Charlie "ASSHOLE" Comiskey was actually one of the bad guys. He used his friendship with Judge to ban the players because he was embarressed over the whole scene. Jackson even told Comiskey about the fix. He testified that this was so. So once again history proves that Comiskey f***ed us out of the GREATEST DYNASTY THAT SHOULD OF BEEN! :fyou COMISKEY AND ANYONE WHO LICKS HIS STRAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Please don't tell us that "apparently" we don't know "the real story" of anything just because we disagree with you, please. Comiskey was a s***. No one exeronerates him, to my knowledge, from his role. You could add the whole WS front office and the WS attorney as people who acted with shame. That does not mean that 8 players were guiltless in throwing the series to get payoffs from gamlers. They were all very guilty and all deserved to be banned. Jackson told Comiskey, yes, and that alone says Jackson had full knowledge. Jackson was a turncoat to his 7 team mates. He took part in the conspiracy and then wanted to testify against them to make it all go away. Sorry, too late. He took the money and then tried to minimize his role. That's what people in trouble do. And it was our 8 players who f***ed us out of our heritage. Had they been on the up and up, they would have won it all in 1920 and for years after. Comiskey did not throw a world series; the players did. No love for Comskey here. But the players were guilty, guilty, guilty and the banning was very legitimate. And Landis was an asshole too. But as far as banning the players, if he hadn't of done that, baseball might have gone the way of wrestling and died as major sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 It will always be up for debate, None of us were there or even living in 1919. I believe the whole TRUTH has never and will never really be known entirely. Newspaper articles of the time also are 1 DEAD man's opinion, all the truth went to the grave with ALL these indivisuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Jackson told Comiskey, yes, and that alone says Jackson had full knowledge. Knowledge of the fix doesn't translate into participating in the fix though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Jackson told Comiskey, yes, and that alone says Jackson had full knowledge. Knowledge of the fix doesn't translate into participating in the fix though. he had money, he took part, he hit well some of the time, he fielded well some of the time - and pulled his bat and glove in the thrown games - but under law, if you know of a criminal conspiracy and do nothing you are guilty of conspiracy - and wasn't the full quote. Say it ain't so, Joe - reply - its's so Jackson was not a top level conspirator but he was one. What a waste of a great player's career but that's where it is at - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 He earned what he got. He knew what was happening and no matter how dumb he was he still deserved the consequences. Lets refrain from praising a cheater and start praising people who deserve it more, like Fisk, Collins and Thomas. These guys played their hearts out, not like that crook Jackson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 He earned. He knew what was happening and no matter how dumb he was he still deserved the consequences. Lets refrain from praising a cheater and start praising people who deserve it more, like Fisk, Collins and Thomas. These guys played their hearts out, not like that crook Jackson... Nobodies praising Jackson here. In all of the literature I've seen and read on the 1919 Scandal, the complicity of Jackson and Weaver is always a lightning rod for debate. Jackson was an illiterate who knew one thing..... baseball. I agree with CWsox that if he had knowledge of the fix (I know he did) and he took money to throw the games (I think he did) then he is guilty. However, my position is, after all of that, prove to me that Jackson did in fact, outside of his knowledge and acceptance of the money, ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE in the fix. Even the sportswriters who witnessed every game of the 1919 WS and printed the first accusations of a WS fix, agree..... no one can prove that Joe Jackson, outside of knowledge and, possibly, accepting money to throw the WS, purposely booted grounders, dropped flyballs, made errant throws, K'ed on balls that bounced on the ground before crossing homeplate, etc. These are what the other players did. Joe Jackson did none of it. My whole opinion on Joe Jackson is, even though I believe he was guilty of knowledge and accepting money to boot the WS, he didn't participate in physically throwing the WS. 'Nuff said on this subject. And while were at it Roman, lets refrain from praising a cheap ass owner who, as much as you may not want to admit it, played a role in the White Sox choosing to throw the 1919 WS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I like the way you presented it, cubkilla - very refreshing take on it - I could easiily live with that as the last word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palehosemike Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 It was stated in a thread that, "but under law, if you know of a criminal conspiracy and do nothing you are guilty of conspiracy." Also under todays law an indigent (one who cannot read or write) is protected by the law. Joseph Jefferson Jackson could not read or write, which makes him an indigent. If you ever get the chance read the Grand Jury Testimony of Joeseph Jefferson Jackson. You can tell right away he was not the sharpest tool in the shed. Also last time I checked Comiskey knew of the criminal consipiracy but tried to clean his hands of it. What happened to him? Also Mountain Landis was not trying to save baseball on a global scale. There were some special interests involved that wanted the White Sox out of the way. Funny thing but Mountain Landis and the League knew that good ol Ty Cobb was gambling on games, but nothing happened to him... wonder why.... PHM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supernuke Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 He earned what he got. He knew what was happening and no matter how dumb he was he still deserved the consequences. Lets refrain from praising a cheater and start praising people who deserve it more, like Fisk, Collins and Thomas. These guys played their hearts out, not like that crook Jackson... Then please for the love of God stop praising Comiskey. It seems odd to me that the stolen grand jury testimony of the players suddenly turned up in Comiskey's lawer's briefcase several years later and Comiskey had guilty knowledge too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I've read a lot on this issue over the years. I've read various opinions and the reasons people expressed for those opinions. I have gradually come to the belief that Joe Jackson did, in fact, know what was going on, did take the money and did actually throw games. I also feel that Buck Weaver was innocent. This, of course, is just my personal opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Buck Weaver was "one of the boys" in one sense, but very much on the periphery of the conspiracy. I'm not as well read as some on this, I did read Asinof and Algren. I am by far most sympathetic to Buck Weaver. He was on the verge of stardom and then got caught up in all this. Weaver was a quiet introspective guy who was not very expressive. He simply couldn't "rat" on his teammates. He made some bad choices, but I don't think he threw any games. IIRC he went 11 for 34 and played errorless ball. I don't think Jackson went into the tank either. Whatever money he took, whatever promises he made he still played ball. He led the team in BA and RBI's in the 1919 WS. People like to point to Chick Gandil as being a ringleader but I think the influence of Swede Risberg is underestimated. Jackson was very intimidated by him. As far as the owner goes, he knew what was happening but his pride and vanity worked against him. It didn't help matters that he and Ban Johnson couldn't stand each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxPride3035 Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 It will always be up for debate, None of us were there or even living in 1919. I believe the whole TRUTH has never and will never really be known entirely. Newspaper articles of the time also are 1 DEAD man's opinion, all the truth went to the grave with ALL these indivisuals. If there was an icon of a smiley applauding, I would post it regarding this quote. But there is not; so....... CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 He earned what he got. He knew what was happening and no matter how dumb he was he still deserved the consequences. Lets refrain from praising a cheater and start praising people who deserve it more, like Fisk, Collins and Thomas. These guys played their hearts out, not like that crook Jackson... wtf fisk and thomas are b****es. frank hits .252 and expects to be one of the highest paid players in the game. fisk has trashed the white sox since he retired. f*** 'em both. not that i'm praising comiskey either, the f***ing twat wouldn't even pay to have the uniforms cleaned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 frank hits .252 and expects to be one of the highest paid players in the game. fisk has trashed the white sox since he retired. f*** 'em both. Sure --- if you leave out all the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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