CanOfCorn Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Not to dogpile on you Brando...but you can't trade MO and Reed for a rental. Freddy Garcia is almost 15 years younger than Randy Johnson and they actually have a chance to sign him to a long-term (for the Sox) contract. I hate to lose Olivo too, but we can always get him back in FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 For the Nth time..... I am very happy with the Garcia part of the deal. I am not very happy with the Olivo part of the deal. I think after Diaz bombed in Cleveland 3 days before Sox were to go into the huge series in the Metrodome, Garcia should have been acquired. That was before Rauch got exposed against Anaheim and lost his (then) solid trade value. That was before Cotts was demoralized in the Twins series and couldn't get anybody out for next 3 weeks........I believe Reed + Rauch + Morse or some variation thereon would have gotten it done at that time. Two former 'Players of the Year' plus a power-hitting SS or maybe a guy like Spidale in his place, etc? Not a great package but very solid - WAS solid at that time anyway. Sure, Sox don't get any cash in that deal and are into Garcia for another 1.4 Mill (5 extra weeks of service) but the point is that Big Mo STAYS and continues to learn until Sandy's tutelage and is ready for his 2005 break-out, both offensively and defensively. And those say speed doesn't matter in a catcher.....Do you think Ramirez hurries and makes that error if Sandy is running and not Miguel? And on Ramirez's even bigger second error, Miguel took second, something that a slower catcher couldn't have done. That's 1 out/3 bases that Miguel gave you in 3 innings of one game. And he definately was safe on his SB attempt as replay showed. 4 bases. Of the "available" pitchers, Randy Johnson is the only one I would have given up Big Mo for because Unit has the potential to shut down over-swinging teams like the Yankees and Red Sox (it's the D-Rays that would give him problems) and single-handedly raise our chances to win the Series. Unlike Freddy, Unit is unhittable on the road - and Sox could always clubber teams at home when Maggs comes back, whereas the ROAD is where our weaknesses are exposed wholesale. Randy Johnson is also a MUCH bigger draw, both attedance, merchandising and media attention, than Freddy is - that's how you steal some of the Cub sunshine. You'd have him for next year as well - not sure how the deferred moneys situation is handled, though. What you happen to THINK and what you happen to BELIEVE is irrelevent. Just because you think and/or believe this stuff does not make it a fact. You seem to consider things you think and/or believe as being carved in stone, and therefore base a lot of your arguments on those non-existant facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_bears86 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 he was my favorite player so i wasnt too happy wehn i heard about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 What you happen to THINK and what you happen to BELIEVE is irrelevent. I happen to like and enjoy my opinions and beliefs. I am sorry that you don't. Perhaps you prefer reading faux-insiders like Rex and JimH. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 ...but you can't trade MO and Reed for a rental. Freddy Garcia is almost 15 years younger than Randy Johnson and they actually have a chance to sign him to a long-term (for the Sox) contract. I hate to lose Olivo too, but we can always get him back in FA. 1. It all depends on who the rental is. Freddy G shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as RJ - even the old RJ. Who would you rather have face off with Pedro in Game 1 of ALDS in Fenway? Freddy and his 4.00 road ERA? 2. He is younger? So what, we're talking about this season and maybe the next. If RJ retires after that, it don't bother me none. 3. You want him back? Great, you could always sign Freddy in the off-season....if you want to outbid the Yankees, etc and overpay, that is. Wouldn't have to give up Reed or Olivo.....So, yes, for the time being, Freddy IS a rental player. Freddy Garcia is just what the Sox need. Apparently Randy Johnson wants to stay put, fine. I thought Miguel would be untouchable, but wouldn't mind to give him up for Unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Brandofan Stop talking out of your ass....I live in Portland and have followed the Ms on radio and TV all year. They had NO Intention of making trades at that time ....they wanted to still make a run at the division, because they felt people like Olerud, Boobe, Martinez would get back to form Facts are only last week the decision was made that they are done for the year Bulls***, unlike you, Bavasi is not a stupid man. With Texas greatly improved and with Oakland and Anaheim (to say nothing of Boston in the Wild Card race) superior talent, Seattle wasn't overcoming an early 12-15 game deficit, which is where they were in April-May. Both A's and Angels are gonna improve their teams at the Break, and Chavez will give them a big boost down the stretch - German couldn't really fill his shoes. Angels got Garret Anderson back as well. You say Boone, Olerud, Martinez were to come back to form. Boone is IMO off the roids, he doesn't have his old batspeed, he is tardy on fastballs he used to kill to RCF-CF and very, very frustrated with himself and his personal life. Martinez is 41yo, come on now. Olerud is aging faster than anticipated. No cameron. Wynn is mediocre. Unless there is a fountain of youth somewhere in the bowels of Safeco I don't know about....... Closer aside, their BP is not that great. Meche, Franklin, Pinierro have all been big disppointments, and Moyer is really old, not exactly someone you would hang your hopes on. Seattle was SO done it's not even funny. And their willingness to trade Garcia (as opposed to younger, cheaper Pinierro) has been there WAY, WAY LONGER than just the last week. He's always been on the block, and the only reason why M's didn't give him away for a bag of balls was that he got off to such a fast start this year, doing things he hadn't done since early 2002, that they realized that he is, once again, a big trade commodity. Then again, circa Diaz's second bombing in Cleveland 5 weeks ago, Reed + Rauch + Morse (Reed still had a .400 OBP despite wrist injury; Rauch hadn't been roughed up by the Angels at that point; and Morse was in the midst of a big power streak) offer wasn't chopped liver, either. Mariners could always go to plan B and get Brandon Inge from Detroit if they wanted a "young catcher" so badly. Then, it was time to go for the kill. Before Yankees re-surfaced with Navarro offer and others joined in as well in time for the bidding season. Maybe you still give up Olivo - or maybe not. I could believe that Bavasi was holding out for more talent for Freddy, but NOT that he didn't know his team was done. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 I have to side with Brando this time. But once Sox build a big lead, then I want Miguel to smack a couple of homers to oppostie field and pick some slack-jawed yockel off a base for good measure........... Sox HAVE to be shown that it's NOT alright to give up the future for a player who could have been had earlier for less if only they were willing to spend a Mill more. --I think he's read this one correctly. I hope the same for Miguel. To suck when the game is on the line, then do what Brando suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmookie Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 hopefully we'll sign MO at the end of his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 I have to side with Brando this time. But once Sox build a big lead, then I want Miguel to smack a couple of homers to oppostie field and pick some slack-jawed yockel off a base for good measure........... Sox HAVE to be shown that it's NOT alright to give up the future for a player who could have been had earlier for less if only they were willing to spend a Mill more. --I think he's read this one correctly. I hope the same for Miguel. To suck when the game is on the line, then do what Brando suggested. People disagree with the premise that Olivo did NOT have to be the centerpiece of this trade if it were made in late May (before tru bidding war broke out), and that's fine. To me, that's just another example of this organization making things more difficult than they have to be in the name of a buck. It was the same way in 2002 and 2003. Garcia will be a big help, but IMO it didn't have to come to KW pulling the trigger at the last moment and possibly (it's contestable) overpaying. Mr. Davis, your table is set. Suprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJSoxSOxSox Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 While watching the Mariners game they showed Olivo in the dugout and I felt so bad, he just dont look right with them and im already finding myself hoping that we get him back when he is a free agent.........the guy had to be devastated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmookie Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 i wonder what will happen if we lose maggs and see him in another uniform. its over, we needed garcia let's move on. i love miguel and i wish him the best of luck but we just need to move on its over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 While watching the Mariners game they showed Olivo in the dugout and I felt so bad, he just dont look right with them and im already finding myself hoping that we get him back when he is a free agent.........the guy had to be devastated. He won't be FA until after 2007 at the earliest. He'll be 30 in 2008 and, if he realizes his potential, probably ready to make BIG money. And you know how it is with 30+ yo catchers and health. Miguel won't be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Dan Wilson, 41 yr old Pat Borders, & Ben Davis. Those were the catchers for Seattle. Based on talks with other teams it came down to Crede or Olivo to get this trade done. There's no way the SOX give up Crede with his best 1/2 still to come. He consistenly posts a +200 gain in OPS in the 2nd half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 I happen to like and enjoy my opinions and beliefs. I am sorry that you don't. Perhaps you prefer reading faux-insiders like Rex and JimH. Oh well. I'll say this much. You always make a guy stop and think. Well, people SHOULD stop and think, at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighHeat45 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 At least he looks happy Im using this as an avatar too --------- Edit: heres another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 You guys live in the past too much. Should I make an avatar of Fisk wearing a Red Sox cap in Cooperstown? Maybe an Aparicio sig in Orioles garb? Chet Lemon winning it all in '84 for the Tiggers? Get serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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