ZeroHour Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Because you just might get it. We want a pitcher. We want an ace. We want him for free? Trade Maggs too. Do it. You cant make Sox fans any madder because you cant make them happy unti lyou win it all. Olivo and Maggs for Garcia/Ortiz/A.Jones. you hand that to me and I take it. Use the money to resign Garcia/Ortiz and youre locked in. Olivo for Wilson is a wash right here right now, giving you Garcia for two prospects. This brings us back to the win now/later argument. There are multiple scenarios yet to play out (also involving contracts). However, do you people honestly think management sits around thinking "Hmm, how can we screw our fans?" Give the customer what they want. We all said we wanted a a pitcher, and that pitcher was usually Garcia. Ill give up a twice a week catacher and a prospect for that. No more wondering if well try to win. Bring it Twins. Bring it AL. Bring it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Because you just might get it. We want a pitcher. We want an ace. We want him for free? Trade Maggs too. Do it. You cant make Sox fans any madder because you cant make them happy unti lyou win it all. Olivo and Maggs for Garcia/Ortiz/A.Jones. you hand that to me and I take it. Use the money to resign Garcia/Ortiz and youre locked in. Olivo for Wilson is a wash right here right now, giving you Garcia for two prospects. This brings us back to the win now/later argument. There are multiple scenarios yet to play out (also involving contracts). However, do you people honestly think management sits around thinking "Hmm, how can we screw our fans?" Give the customer what they want. We all said we wanted a a pitcher, and that pitcher was usually Garcia. Ill give up a twice a week catacher and a prospect for that. No more wondering if well try to win. Bring it Twins. Bring it AL. Bring it on. welcome to soxtalk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I wouldn't mind Dan Wilson. Too damn bad we got Ben Davis who's hitting .091. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Wow his 1st post on SoxTalk and he's more sane than a lot of the whiners that have been lamenting the loss of Olivo. Garcia is a 2 time all star with a lot of credentials. Here's to him kicking ass and taking names for the rest of this season. The guy is a beast and he'll get the run support from the Sox compared to the last place in offense in the AL Mariners. Plus if the M's wanna resign him, they're gonna have to spend money on bats rather than arms so there's a distinct possibility that Garcia stays out of their price range. Plus we have Freddy's best friend as our manager. Methinks there was a reason KW made this trade and it's to get Garcia for the long term. I'll give up Olivo and two prospects for a proven ace. Pitching wins championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroHour Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 Sorry, in my haste last night I kept typing Wilson instead of Davis. Rookie mistake, but still no excuse. However, I still feel that side is a wash. Ben Davis is a catcher the sox have had their eye on and had similar hype to Olivo 2 years ago. Being stuck inside Seattle's cavern behind their own personal Alomar* didnt do him any favors. The only thing that isnt clear to me is Davis/cash from Seattle. Why not prospects for Garcia straight up? Im only reminded of Atlanta's refusal to pay as big a share of Ortiz' contract. Maggs/Davis/cash for Ortiz/Jones/Estrada? Even if thats a pipe dream, you have to think KW is dead serious when he says he will do everything to resign Garcia, which even the staunchest whiner says makes this a good trade. ZeroHour *One last thing, I love Sandy, he calls a good game and can still swing the bat, but you could compare his PT situation to Wilson's in Seattle for the same reasons, despite their age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Sorry, in my haste last night I kept typing Wilson instead of Davis. Rookie mistake, but still no excuse. However, I still feel that side is a wash. Ben Davis is a catcher the sox have had their eye on and had similar hype to Olivo 2 years ago. Being stuck inside Seattle's cavern behind their own personal Alomar* didnt do him any favors. The only thing that isnt clear to me is Davis/cash from Seattle. Why not prospects for Garcia straight up? Im only reminded of Atlanta's refusal to pay as big a share of Ortiz' contract. Maggs/Davis/cash for Ortiz/Jones/Estrada? Even if thats a pipe dream, you have to think KW is dead serious when he says he will do everything to resign Garcia, which even the staunchest whiner says makes this a good trade. ZeroHour *One last thing, I love Sandy, he calls a good game and can still swing the bat, but you could compare his PT situation to Wilson's in Seattle for the same reasons, despite their age. Probably because the Yankees were offerin Dioner Navarro and 1 one of their best other prospects for a possible Garcia deal. We didn't include Olivo, there's no deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Probably because the Yankees were offerin Dioner Navarro and 1 one of their best other prospects for a possible Garcia deal. We didn't include Olivo, there's no deal. I like the fact that KW has the balls to make the big deal to fill a need that we weren't going anywhere without addressing. kw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 WELCOME to SOXTALK! And an EXCELLENT first post!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 The only thing that isnt clear to me is Davis/cash from Seattle. Why not prospects for Garcia straight up? As Dbaho said, Olivo was clearly the key to the deal. We don't get Garcia without giving up Olivo. Hence the inclusion of Davis and cash. Also, this is not meant to imply I am against this trade, but let's clarify something. Olivo caught 60% of the time, which roughly works out to 4 out of every seven games. That does not a "twice a week" catcher make. The key factor in this trade was Bob Fontaine. Fontaine was the Sox Farm Director last year and is now the Mariners Director of Scouting (I apologize if I messed up his exact titles). Fontaine knew the Sox farm system better than anyone and he knew what to ask for. I have no doubt that Fontaine had a big role in this trade for Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Reed was the other sticking point. Once the Sox agreed to part with Reed, the deal went through. No doubt at all that Fontaine played a big part. Greg Walker was quoted this morning as saying Morse might be the guy who's best, 5 years down the road. You have to give something to get something, it's that simple. No one wanted to give up Olivo or Reed or even Morse for that matter. But that's the way things go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Zero Hour...Welcome! You seem to know a lot about the Sox/baseball. Keep up the good work. It sucks to have had to give up Olivo and Reed, but (unless you're the damned cubs) nobody gives you something for nothing. Both of these guys will probably be stars for years to come, I wish them the best of luck, (except when they play the Sox!). We needed an "ace", and KW got us one! (Caveat...this trade will officially suck IF the Sox do not sign Garcia to a long-term contract.) The long term implications of the trade, IMO, are that if we do sign Garcia long term, Ordonez is GAWN! I cannot see the Sox paying Freddy $10 million (or more?) per year AND giving Mags what he wants/deserves. That being said...DO NOT TRADE MAGGLIO ORDONEZ FOR ANDRUW JONES!!!!! Jones sucks! His OBP is awful, he has lost a step or two (according to a reporter from Atlanta that I heard on The Score, and he is WAY overpaid! Now...re. the issue of filling our Catcher slot...I recommend that we go for Pudge Rodriguez. His creds speak for themselves, he knows Ozzie from the Marlins, and he is "only" making $10 million/per. That's not a lot of money for someone who is currently hitting .370+, and is playoff-tested and VERY clutch! The Tigers are "done", they will be "sellers" very soon (Pudge and Urbina?). "We" need to go for it, NOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Just for accuracy's sake....... Andruw Jones OBP is almost 100 points higher than his batting average. His walk rate is higher than Maggs this year and has been pretty much equal to or better than Maggs the past few years. OK, back to your original programming.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Just for accuracy's sake....... Andruw Jones OBP is almost 100 points higher than his batting average. His walk rate is higher than Maggs this year and has been pretty much equal to or better than Maggs the past few years. OK, back to your original programming.... He's hitting .240-something, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Reed was the other sticking point. Once the Sox agreed to part with Reed, the deal went through. No doubt at all that Fontaine played a big part. Greg Walker was quoted this morning as saying Morse might be the guy who's best, 5 years down the road. You have to give something to get something, it's that simple. No one wanted to give up Olivo or Reed or even Morse for that matter. But that's the way things go. Kenny Williams seemed to indicate that it was at the Sox' insistance that Seattle agreed to take Reed instead of Joe Crede. That's when Kenny agreed to the deal, from what he said on the radio. Either way, the deal adressed a need and you have to give value to get value. I really hope Reinsdorf is serious about allowing Kenny to make serious long-term offers to Garcia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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