I don't like the Maggs/Andruw Deal

[Butter Parque]

The deal makes sense in one way: We probably won't be able to sign maggs in the offseason and Andruw is signed through 2007. The reason I don't like it is because right now with the addition of a quality pitcher in Garcia, this team looks pretty good. I don't want Kenny to screw up our bats by bringing in someone new and getting rid of our best hitter for the last 5 years. Right now, when Magglio comes back, you know he's comfortable in Chitown and you know he's gonna hit once he gets healthy. His bat alone with the addtion to the pitching staff should soar us into the playoffs. You don't know how Andruw is gonna respond when he comes to Chicago. he's no having a good year and it might take too long for him to get into a rhythm here. I don't know if a major, blockbuster deal is what this team needs.

 

I think I have one possible conclusion for kenny's new win-now philosophy. Could his job security be in limbo at the end of the year if this team doesn't make the playoffs. So far his deals haven't exactly worked out for the most part and his luck here in Chicago could be running out if he can't propel this team into the playoffs. This might force him to give up the farm for players he needs to win now. Just a theory though.

 

Kenny, If you want to get this team to the playoffs, just get some more bullpen help, send cotts down to AAA and make him start down there, put Schoe in the bullpe where he belongs, and bring in a decent LH pitcher to help us in the rotation.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I bet that thread would have been a good place to voice that opinion.

[hi8is]

Player G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLP AVE

Jones 72 268 40 65 19 3 12 37 126 36 67 2 4 .333 .470 .243

 

19 doubles

3 triples

12 home runs

 

only down side is his average, which im pretty damn sure will go up

 

his numbers since 2000 are pretty consistant

2000 Atlanta Braves 161 656 122 199 36 6 36 104 355 59 100 21 6 .366 .541 .303

2001 Atlanta Braves 161 625 104 157 25 2 34 104 288 56 142 11 4 .312 .461 .251

2002 Atlanta Braves 154 560 91 148 34 0 35 94 287 83 135 8 3 .366 .513 .264

2003 Atlanta Braves 156 595 101 165 28 2 36 116 305 53 125 4 3 .338 .513 .277

 

his average numbers look about like this and he is on pace to do this... which isnt bad at all, and would also go up in US cellular field

35+home runs/ 100+ runs/ 150+hits/ 30+ doubles/ 35+ home runs/ 100+ RBI/ .260 average

 

 

there is a huge potential upside and little downside IMO

 

oh, and Ortiz makes this deal that much better, ill sacrifice a few RBIs, Runs, and 50 - 75 ave points for a pitcher like Ortiz

[BobDylan]

oh, and Ortiz makes this deal that much better, ill sacrifice a few RBIs, Runs, and 50 - 75 ave points for a pitcher like Ortiz

Pitching is much more important than hitting down the stretch and in the playoffs. Ortiz would be a valuable addition, and Jones bolsers the defense up the middle.

 

Take a look at the teams that win championships, and they are all strong in CF. Erstad, Pierre, Williams...all good defensive CFers.

 

Jones is probably better than all three both offensively and defensivley. ...Maybe not Williams, but close.

 

The Sox offense hasn't skipped a beat with Maggs out of the line-up, so it doesn't hurt a hell of a lot to trade him. I love him to death, but Jones and Ortiz puts the Sox in the elite. That's four above average starters in Garcia, Ortiz, Buehrle and Loaiza. That is one hell of a playoff staff.

 

IMO, with four starters that good, the bullpen isn't as big of an issue. Instead of the need for 2 maybe even 3 arms, KW can limit the need to 1.

 

If the deal is on the table, I'd pull the trigger. But does Maggs need to come of the DL for him to be traded?

[hi8is]

maggs will most likely need to come of the DL

 

the unlikely situation being that we take him of the DL, send him to ATL, then the put him on their DL

 

dont see it happening

 

i think that the sox org. is going to mull over this until past the all star game and deep into July... IF someone dosent try to take Ortiz that is

 

 

how much money does KW make? because damn, im really starting to get a feel for what he goes through, that guy must be f***ing NUTS!

[DBAHO]

It all depends on how Jones handles the Cell. He could hit anywhere from .230 to .290, and that will determine whether or not he'd be a sucess at the Cell. Otherwise we'd hav a case of a Preston Wilson in Florida, a guy who hit for a lot of power, but K'd a lot and could hit for a good average, eventually he was traded to the Rockies.

[witesoxfan]

maggs will most likely need to come of the DL

 

the unlikely situation being that we take him of the DL, send him to ATL, then the put him on their DL

 

dont see it happening

 

i think that the sox org. is going to mull over this until past the all star game and deep into July... IF someone dosent try to take Ortiz that is

 

 

how much money does KW make? because damn, im really starting to get a feel for what he goes through, that guy must be f***ing NUTS! 

Actually, I think that's how it would work.

 

And then Atlanta can just take Maggs off whenever they need to...it is retroactive to the last time he played, which was about a month ago, so they can just put him on the 15-day DL, and since he's already been on the DL for 15 days, they can take him off whenever.

 

Or they could just trade him while he's on the DL. Nothing wrong with that, so long as both teams know he is injured(or neither team knows he's injured). Since he went under the knife, I have a hunch both teams know he's injured.

[BrandoFan]

Take a look at the teams that win championships, and they are all strong in CF. Erstad, Pierre, Williams...all good defensive CFers.

 

Pierre is a mediocre defensive CF'er and Bernie Williams is one of the worst defensive CF'er in the game if not THE worst. Hello.

[hi8is]

OK, i looked over Ortiz's numbers from THIS YEAR alone... and he is a good #4 starter... Garland becomes #5.... take a look at Ortiz's game by game break down HERE:

 

 

Notice that he just threw a shut out in interleauge play hummmmm

 

And then compare his starts to that of

Garland (our current #4)

[YASNY]

Andruw Jones is a risk, that's for sure.

 

The guy could end up in the HOF ----- or ------

 

He's put on some weight since last year. I'd guess about 20 lbs. I've heard he was trying to add bulk to get stronger, but that can be so much spin. Has he gotten lazy since he's got that fat contract? Does he need a change of scene to get him excited about playing baseball again? I don't know the amswers to these questions, but it's about a $40million gamble.

[sox-r-us]

Folks

 

Some of you need to read what Kenny says ....he said it one month back that he is not trading him this season, and he said it again today.....I believe him, he is not trading Maggs away....we may get Andruw jones by trading someone else but not Maggs

 

"I have not had one conversation with regards to Mags with [Atlanta GM] John Schuerholz," Williams said. "And I have spoken with him."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

[hi8is]

huh... could be trying to quiet all this down, i mean... it was on the front page of the ATL mlb site

 

or it could be true

 

honestly, i hope that we get Ortiz for some minor leaugers including Rauch

and that we resign Maggs after he comes back and has a huge 2nd half that helps us get the ALCS and WS

 

 

we can dream right

[YASNY]

Folks

 

Some of you need to read what Kenny says ....he said it one month back that he is not trading him this season, and he said it again today.....I believe him, he is not trading Maggs away....we may get Andruw jones by trading someone else but not Maggs

 

"I have not had one conversation with regards to Mags with [Atlanta GM] John Schuerholz," Williams said. "And I have spoken with him."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

He also looked at the clubhouse door and said, "There is no one in there that is untouchable."

[Chisoxfn]

I posted that quote as well in one of the threads. To me its a pretty bold statement and sure it can be BS, but for whatever reason, I'm gonna take Kenny's word. He's sometimes said if the right offer came along we'd have to accept, but I don't think he'd be out their actively shopping him.

 

If a deal goes down with Atlanta, look for it to be a deal that puts the team over the top, with the Sox keeping Maggs like Jim and SSirish have suggested.

[hi8is]

can u post that whole article sox-r-us?

i dont have an account and dont wanna sign up if i dont have to

[YASNY]

I posted that quote as well in one of the threads.  To me its a pretty bold statement and sure it can be BS, but for whatever reason, I'm gonna take Kenny's word.  He's sometimes said if the right offer came along we'd have to accept, but I don't think he'd be out their actively shopping him. 

 

If a deal goes down with Atlanta, look for it to be a deal that puts the team over the top, with the Sox keeping Maggs like Jim and SSirish have suggested.

Maggs can still go to Atlanta and it not be BS on KW's part. Just because they haven't talked about Maggs, that doesn't mean they aren't going to.

[hi8is]

Maggs can still go to Atlanta and it not be BS on KW's part.  Just because they haven't talked about Maggs, that doesn't mean they aren't going to.

talk about speculation!

[YASNY]

talk about speculation! 

[Chisoxfn]

Maggs can still go to Atlanta and it not be BS on KW's part.  Just because they haven't talked about Maggs, that doesn't mean they aren't going to.

Agreed, u know me, I'm not one to ever saw a GM went back on their word. For all we know KW is saying this for leverage. Ozzie said it yesterday, we plan on keeping Maggs and they will stick to that line.

 

Why, first off, because they don't want it to look like he's gone because he may have to play here and they don't want to ruin relationships for future contract negtotiations. Plus, if they are trying to make a trade, you gotta make it seem like you don't want to deal them and the Sox can easily say hey, Maggs is our star, give us a s***load for him or don't get him at all. Were a very good team with him.

 

GM's gotta say things to keep the players happy and what not at times. Plus, I think almost all Sox fans love Maggs and would hate to lose him (myself included, even though I"m more then open to the idea of dealing him).

[Gene Honda Civic]

Folks

 

Some of you need to read what Kenny says ....he said it one month back that he is not trading him this season, and he said it again today.....I believe him, he is not trading Maggs away....we may get Andruw jones by trading someone else but not Maggs

 

"I have not had one conversation with regards to Mags with [Atlanta GM] John Schuerholz," Williams said. "And I have spoken with him."

 

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

Good I'd rather trade Carlos Lee.

[hi8is]

id rather trade Rauch to ALT for Ortiz (who is a rent a player) and resign Maggs

[witesoxfan]

id rather trade Rauch to ALT for Ortiz (who is a rent a player) and resign Maggs

Atlanta, right now, will not take Rauch for Ortiz. They believe they're still in it.

 

I don't think they are. Wait a month, and if Ortiz isn't gone by then, you THEN give them Rauch

[hi8is]

i just remembered Livan Hernandez and know that he is on KW's list... he is making the same 6 mil that Ortiz is, and his starts this year have been better! only 2 times has he allowed 5 or more runs... 11 quality starts... 3.47 ERA (3.22 ERA on the road).... s*** man, this looks like Freddy Garcia's twin brother... if we could get this guy, id be all over it!

 

 

f***, i just looked at his contract... just signed a 3 year 21 mil. extention with the expos in april 2004

 

i doubt the expos will trade this guy

"On the other hand, the Expos, whose season was over in May, have let it be known they have no intention of trading any of their coveted starting pitchers, Livan Hernandez, Zach Day and Tony Armas Jr."

 

damn, i woulda gave them diaz, rauch, and sweeny (dont kill me

[YASNY]

i just remembered Livan Hernandez and know that he is on KW's list... he is making the same 6 mil that Ortiz is, and his starts this year have been better! only 2 times has he allowed 5 or more runs... 11 quality starts... 3.47 ERA (3.22 ERA on the road).... s*** man, this looks like Freddy Garcia's twin brother... if we could get this guy, id be all over it!

 

 

f***, i just looked at his contract... just signed a 3 year 21 mil. extention with the expos in april 2004

 

i doubt the expos will trade this guy

I like this idea too. Livan > Ortiz, imho.

[ZoomSlowik]

I hate this potential deal whether we deal Mags or prospects. As a few other people have said, Jones has gotten fat and lazy, and his knees are bugging him. His defense is not as good as it used to be. He's way to expensive for what he provides. Do you really want to commit $13 million for the next 3 years to a guy with a career .267 average? He's notorious for being a pain in the ass. Ortiz would not be much of an upgrade either, if at all. His ERA right now is 3.87, and that's come down quite a bit after a solid start. But it is likely that he wouldn't do that well on the Sox. A) He would be moving to an AL team, meaning he no longer has that easy out in the pitcher and faces more high scoring offenses. B) He would be moving from a decent pitchers park to one of the best hitters parks in the league. Look at his splits and his road ERA is much higher. I would not be surprised if his ERA jumped to 4.50, which would make him about the same as Garland. Plus, how do you thing trading Maggs would affect the rest of the team, especially considering how they reacted when Olivo was delt? It makes sense to leave this team as is at least until Maggs comes back to see what you have. In my opinion if you need to add anything for a playoff run it is another reliable arm in the bullpen. Your starting staff seems fine as is. You got 4 pretty solid guys and a competent 5th starter isn't an instant loss once Shoney gets back. Your never even going to see the 5th starter in the playoffs, so getting Ortiz doesn't help that much(especially since his career playoff ERA is over 5), and Jones' contract will kill you over the next few years.