sox-r-us Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Folks Keep this in mind. If the Astros do not pick it up in the next 12 games and land up 10 out by the time they are done with this stretch, they may become sellers and put Beltran on the block. They already lost to the Cubs tonight (with Rusch starting). They play the following games up to June 20: 2 at the Cubs (with their top guns left to pitch now) 3 vs Rangers 3 at SD 4 at LA That is a very tough schedule with the only home games vs a very good Texas offense in that O friendly ballpark in Houston Would you be ok if we give up a Rauch and one out of Anderson, Rowand and Sweeney for Beltran? I think we still have better prospects to give up compared to Boston (the other Beltran contender), and I doubt more is needed for the rental for this coming year In my mind there are two deals that could absolutely put the fear of God into the Yankees and make us legit competition to them....one of them is the Beltran deal and the other one is the Randy Johnson deal. Given RJ's contract for next year and the fact that he has a no trade clause, I would love to still go after Beltran if he is back on the block. We are either going for it or not....if we are going for it, let's really gpo for it I say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 urrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I wouldn't doubt it. They probably won't resign him at seasons end. They ended up giving up Dotel, maybe they'll try to pry Youkilis from the Red Sox. Hopefully they wouldn't settle with a Lofton from the Yankees. Who knows.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 urrrrrrmmmmmmmmmm no You think we can beat the Yankees Brown, Mussina, Vasquez, Lieber in the playoffs with this line up? I have seen this core of right handers choke every time there is a huge game (I remember the 4 for 30 crap from Frank, Maggs, Paul and C Lee against the Ms in the playoffs in 2000....and the Ms pitching was not even deadly enough as this healthy Yankees pitching quartet) Beltran would give us that left handed bat who can hit against a great right handed pitching and get us the playoff wins Remember if we do not get the WS this year, we gave up Olivo and Reed for nothing If we are going for it, we should really go for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Folks Keep this in mind. If the Astros do not pick it up in the next 12 games and land up 10 out by the time they are done with this stretch, they may become sellers and put Beltran on the block. They already lost to the Cubs tonight (with Rusch starting). They play the following games up to June 20: 2 at the Cubs (with their top guns left to pitch now) 3 vs Rangers 3 at SD 4 at LA That is a very tough schedule with the only home games vs a very good Texas offense in that O friendly ballpark in Houston Would you be ok if we give up a Rauch and one out of Anderson, Rowand and Sweeney for Beltran? I think we still have better prospects to give up compared to Boston (the other Beltran contender), and I doubt more is needed for the rental for this coming year In my mind there are two deals that could absolutely put the fear of God into the Yankees and make us legit competition to them....one of them is the Beltran deal and the other one is the Randy Johnson deal. Given RJ's contract for next year and the fact that he has a no trade clause, I would love to still go after Beltran if he is back on the block. We are either going for it or not....if we are going for it, let's really gpo for it I say Not happening. If the Stros thought they were out of it they wouldn't have done the Beltran deal. I dont know what the hell's wrong with them lately cause they seem to be rolling over like a bunch of b****es but I'm sure they're gonna be in the thick of things in the NL Central come September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Not happening. If the Stros thought they were out of it they wouldn't have done the Beltran deal. I dont know what the hell's wrong with them lately cause they seem to be rolling over like a bunch of b****es but I'm sure they're gonna be in the thick of things in the NL Central come September. A lot can change in 1 month. The Astros could fall to 8 games back and figure they'd need to trade Beltran since they're done for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Not happening. If the Stros thought they were out of it they wouldn't have done the Beltran deal. I dont know what the hell's wrong with them lately cause they seem to be rolling over like a bunch of b****es but I'm sure they're gonna be in the thick of things in the NL Central come September. I can see the Stros doing this. In fact, Gammons said that if they don't turn it around by the break, Jimy Williams is gone the day after the AS game. If they take a nose dive, I can see them cutting their losses. They might have pulled the trigger on this deal when they did so the would have time to move him elsewhere if it didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Not happening. If the Stros thought they were out of it they wouldn't have done the Beltran deal. I dont know what the hell's wrong with them lately cause they seem to be rolling over like a bunch of b****es but I'm sure they're gonna be in the thick of things in the NL Central come September. If they lose 8 or 9 of their next 12 (very possible), Sept will not matter Cubs have tons of games vs Brewers, and Cubs do not play Astros at all afte AS game, hence very little to no chance for the Stros to beat them head to head Also, Wood and Prior will be back and dealing....their O will be intact ....I can see the Astros selling after the AS break if they suck in the next 12 And one more thing, they just lost Jeff Kent to a hamstring....not sure how serious that is, but their O (which has been struggling mightily) will struggle more if this is a big deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 A lot can change in 1 month. The Astros could fall to 8 games back and figure they'd need to trade Beltran since they're done for. If that's the case then that would be the saddest story of this season and the Stros would be forever painted as chokers and the woulda coulda shoulda talk will kill them for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 If that's the case then that would be the saddest story of this season. Very much so. We'd just have to hope the Cards can keep up what they're doing then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 We can only count on the Cardinals to win this division. The Astros WILL NOT win this division. Book it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 All is not lost before the ASB... We were 8 games out the day after the ASB... the team was not dismantled. TheWorld Champs were 13 games back the day before the break -- http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/st...date=2003-07-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 One more thing to remember folks, there is NO pitcher on the Sox who can shut out that Yanks line up in the playoffs (unless there are injuries to Giambi, Sheffield etc) Freddy is good, but he will give up between 2-4 runs to the Yanks line up (heck he could not pitch a shut out against them when their line up was not this scary when the Ms played the Yanks in 2000 playoffs and 2001 playoffs) No way Buerhle, ELo and Garland can shut them down either Hence, if we are really going for it, we need to score runs in the playoffs against that Yanks pitching or get Randy Freaking Johnson to shut them down I just do not have faith in our O core to score when it matters against the tough right handed pitchers like Kevin Brown, Mussina, Vasquez and Lieber If Brown and/or Lieber are not healthy for the playoffs, that is a different thing, but for now we have to plan for a way to beat them I hope Kenny at least makes the call to the Astros if they start slipping here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Just for fun.. Uribe/Harris Lee/Rowand Maggs Thomas Beltran Konerko Valentin Crede Sandy/Davis/Burke .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 All is not lost before the ASB... We were 8 games out the day after the ASB... the team was not dismantled. TheWorld Champs were 13 games back the day before the break -- http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/st...date=2003-07-12 Yeah but our division or the Nl East was not this tough as the NL Central The Astros would have a tough time beating the Pirates, Reds and Brewers right now, forget the Cubs and Cardinals When you have so many toug teams in your division, and you are chasing two quality teams, it is very difficult down the stretch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 One more thing to remember folks, there is NO pitcher on the Sox who can shut out that Yanks line up in the playoffs (unless there are injuries to Giambi, Sheffield etc) Freddy is good, but he will give up between 2-4 runs to the Yanks line up (heck he could not pitch a shut out against them when their line up was not this scary when the Ms played the Yanks in 2000 playoffs and 2001 playoffs) No way Buerhle, ELo and Garland can shut them down either Hence, if we are really going for it, we need to score runs in the playoffs against that Yanks pitching or get Randy Freaking Johnson to shut them down I just do not have faith in our O core to score when it matters against the tough right handed pitchers like Kevin Brown, Mussina, Vasquez and Lieber If Brown and/or Lieber are not healthy for the playoffs, that is a different thing, but for now we have to plan for a way to beat them I hope Kenny at least makes the call to the Astros if they start slipping here If you recall we totally destroyed the Spankees in the 2000 season. The reason we lost in the playoffs is because our hitters froze up and started making excuses for their lack of production. Who could forget Frank Thomas's infamous line....... "The sunlight was in my eyes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Just for fun.. Uribe/Harris Lee/Rowand Maggs Thomas Beltran Konerko Valentin Crede Sandy/Davis/Burke .... If we trade out Rowand for Beltran I would go for this line up Willie Harris 2B Uribe 3B Frank DH Maggs RF Beltran CF C Lee LF Paulie 1B Jose Valentin SS Sandy/Burke/DOES IT REALLY MATTER? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 The Astros would have a tough time beating the Pirates, Reds and Brewers right now, forget the Cubs and Cardinals Right now, on June 30th? I beg to differ. Watch them get really hot in about a week or two. It will be a tight three team race between the Astros, Cubs, and Cardinals. You can forget about the Reds. They don't have enough pitching. s***, they haven't had pitching depth in quite some time now. You'd have to go all the way back to the early nineties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Right now, on June 30th? I beg to differ. Watch them get really hot in about a week or two. It will be a tight three team race between the Astros, Cubs, and Cardinals. You can forget about the Reds. They don't have enough pitching. s***, they haven't had pitching depth in quite some time now. You'd have to go all the way back to the early nineties. Agreed about the Reds. The only two things holding them up is Griffey and Larkin. One of them goes down with injury ( as they both are prone to do ) and they are toast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 If we trade out Rowand for Beltran I would go for this line up Willie Harris 2B Uribe 3B Frank DH Maggs RF Beltran CF C Lee LF Paulie 1B Jose Valentin SS Sandy/Burke/DOES IT REALLY MATTER? No Crede? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 If you recall we totally destroyed the Spankees in the 2000 season. The reason we lost in the playoffs is because our hitters froze up and started making excuses for their lack of production. Who could forget Frank Thomas's infamous line....... "The sunlight was in my eyes." Nuke Seriously, this year have you seen this O score against the great pitchers? We got shut out by Vasguez, Kevin Brown and Mulder this year....we have never hit Hudson, and you know this core of righties have no chance against Pedro or Schilling Lieber has been hit by us in interleague before, but when the playoffs spot light is on, pitchers always beat out the hitters Again, we do not have the line up that can score against the quality right handed pitchers and a lefty like Mulder.....we never have Hence, I would love to get Beltran and REALLY go for it.... You know against the Yanks we have no chance after the 7th with Flash and Rivera (hell Rivera pitches two innings most of the time) And you also know the Yanks will get better with some trade between now and the deadline (maybe Brett Boone at 2b or more relief or starting pitching) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 No Crede? If Crede can play catcher, that is the only way he makes that line up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Nuke Seriously, this year have you seen this O score against the great pitchers? We got shut out by Vasguez, Kevin Brown and Mulder this year....we have never hit Hudson, and you know this core of righties have no chance against Pedro or Schilling Lieber has been hit by us in interleague before, but when the playoffs spot light is on, pitchers always beat out the hitters Again, we do not have the line up that can score against the quality right handed pitchers and a lefty like Mulder.....we never have Hence, I would love to get Beltran and REALLY go for it.... You know against the Yanks we have no chance after the 7th with Flash and Rivera (hell Rivera pitches two innings most of the time) And you also know the Yanks will get better with some trade between now and the deadline (maybe Brett Boone at 2b or more relief or starting pitching) Everybody knows you aren't gonna get 8-10 runs a game against the best pitchers in the leauge, that's why we needed the quality starter that bad & we paid so much to get him. I think MB, E-Lo and Garcia are going to do very well in the playoffs and we'll get em just enough runs to make some noise there. That's just my $.02 though we'll have to wait a few months to see how this plays out. That all being said I think our lineup is about as solid as its gonna get. If we're going to go get another big bat then it's gonna cost us more than we can afford to pay for it and it'll end up doing more harm than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 30, 2004 Author Share Posted June 30, 2004 Right now, on June 30th? I beg to differ. Watch them get really hot in about a week or two. It will be a tight three team race between the Astros, Cubs, and Cardinals. You can forget about the Reds. They don't have enough pitching. s***, they haven't had pitching depth in quite some time now. You'd have to go all the way back to the early nineties. Yes right now....the Brewers have a team ERA less than the Cubs (they are around 0.380 .... look it up) Yes right now....the Pirates just shut out the vaunted St Louis line up for two straight days (what, no faith in Kip Wells ) Yes right now....the Reds are more than Griffey and Larkin....Dunn and Casey are very good too...yes their pitching is very suspect, but the Astros O sucks too Let's talk 15 days from today....I have a feeling the Astros will not go anywhere this year Petite is back, but he will take a while to get dominant if he ever does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Yes right now....the Brewers have a team ERA less than the Cubs (they are around 0.380 .... look it up) Yes right now....the Pirates just shut out the vaunted St Louis line up for two straight days (what, no faith in Kip Wells ) Yes right now....the Reds are more than Griffey and Larkin....Dunn and Casey are very good too...yes their pitching is very suspect, but the Astros O sucks too Let's talk 15 days from today....I have a feeling the Astros will not go anywhere this year Petite is back, but he will take a while to get dominant if he ever does The Stro's have to show me something before I'll consider them contenders. Right now they look like their bark is a lot worse then their bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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