What's the answer then?

[mreye]

In the other thread a lot of people jumped all over Marriotti over his reporting of the recent incident at US Cellular Field. Tex seemed to be the only one looking past Marriotti's assholeness and addressing the real issue, and rightly so.

 

I'm curious if anyone has any real answers for what needs to be done. This IS a problem, people. Yes, it happens at other parks, and I know you can show me articles about it. But, I'm not talking about other parks. I'm talking about OUR park. There are parks where this doesn't happen this often. What makes them different?

[Wedge]

I think winning a World Series is the answer.

 

I think it has to do with the nature of the fans, at least in part. I think as Sox fans, we are so desperate for that World Series win that we forget that in the end, it's just baseball and it's just supposed to be fun: fun to go to the ballpark, forget about life for a while, watch a good game, etc, etc.

 

Maybe I sound a bit like a Cubs fan there, but who cares. Look at Fenway. Whenever the away team makes a spectacular play there or does something incredible, the Fenway fans appluad. I don't think you'd ever see that at the Cell.

 

I'm an ND guy and we care a whole helluva lot about our team and how it does. We tailgate before games, get in high spirits, etc, but you rarely see a fight or incident and ND Stadium. The only difference is either respect for the venue or else the nature of the people attending the game.

[EvilJester99]

Maybe after the 5th or 6th. They should start serving NA beer....

[mreye]

I think winning a World Series is the answer.

 

I think it has to do with the nature of the fans, at least in part.  I think as Sox fans, we are so desperate for that World Series win that we forget that in the end, it's just baseball and it's just supposed to be fun: fun to go to the ballpark, forget about life for a while, watch a good game, etc, etc.

 

Maybe I sound a bit like a Cubs fan there, but who cares.  Look at Fenway.  Whenever the away team makes a spectacular play there or does something incredible, the Fenway fans appluad.  I don't think you'd ever see that at the Cell.

But, Boston hasn't won a World Series either.

 

Are they just better people than us in Chicago?

[GoodAsGould]

when your in a town where fans from another team show up in your ball park there are going to be fights so only way to stop the fighting is to invent a cub scan and not allow any cubby fans in

[Guest JimH]

Here is my observation on security guys at Chicago sports events.

 

Generally, they aren't proactive. Fights rarely happen instantly, there's usually a fairly lengthy lead in. Take for example this incident Mariotti reports on. These guys were dropping F-bombs all game long supposedly.

 

If someone complains about them once, shouldn't security talk to them and keep an eye on them, up to and including wandering down by their seats?

 

I rarely see that happen, and not just at Sox games. This is at Bears games and Hawks games too. The old Stadium was absolutely horrible for security, brutal.

 

I hate to cast stones at security guys because their job is thankless. But I never sense they're proactive. They stand there as a presence which is all well and good, but they're not walking up and down the aisles or anything like that. The goddamned beer vendor walks in front of me every 1/2 inning, and I can't find a security guard within 100 yards if some sideways wearing baseball cap drunk lights up a cigarette right next to me. Ask him to put it out and explain the seating area is no smoking? Yeah right.

 

The more people, the more problems. I just expect that to be the case. That's why I don't go to the Sox-Cubs games.

 

I mean, you can't have 30,000 security people for 30,000 fans, it's impossible. Personally, I think it's a training issue. These guys are getting paid and they should walk up and down the aisles every inning and sometimes during the game, in between batters. Make it known security is ever present. Most of these hooligans are brave when they think they can get away with it.

 

Might not be practical, but those are my thoughts.

[Texsox]

One thing that needs to happen is for Sox fans to not accept this behavior. If 20 people complained about the language instead of 1, things would have been different.

 

I think we still have an image as the "Worlds Biggest Saloon". Our owner at the time even promoted it that way. That just takes time.

 

Nothing we can really do about the next thing, but more season ticket holders would help. When I was attending Bulls and Hawks games, I had season tickets and of course got to know everyone around us. If a casual fan got out of line, there was a dozen or two to keep it in check.

 

Good Sox fans cannot just stick their heads in the sand and pretend we're fine. I dislike reading negative stuff about the Sox as almost anyone, but when we load the damn gun and point it to our heads, why blame anyone in the media for pulling the trigger?

 

When my kids were growing up, they didn't know the Sox played at night. I would only take them to day games. There is a huge difference in the fans between our day and night games.

 

And finally. I had never seen a punch at a Bulls, Hawks, or Cubs game. Saw one at a Bears game in 1987. I have witnessed at least 20 shoving and punching fights at Cominsky.

[YASNY]

The answer? How about the fans at the Cell being proactive and self policing. When you become aware of someone being a little too rowdy and a little too inebriated, report it to security. If it continues, report it again. Encourage fans in the area to back you up by doing the same thing. If the offending party targets you personally, don't "accept the challenge". Just shut up, walk away and get security.

[Wedge]

But, Boston hasn't won a World Series either. 

 

Are they just better people than us in Chicago?

I dunno, maybe.

 

The best example I can give is to look at college football. The teams that are in general the most winningest seem to tend to have the classiest fans.

 

I was in the band at the ND vs Oregon St. Fiesta Bowl in 2000. There was a huge difference between the fans. The ND fans were down there to have a good time and to see a great game. The OSU fans had a lot of dirty signs at the stadium (like "f*** the Irish" or "Welcome the gay Irish brothers, Patrick Fitzgerald and Gerald Fitzpatrick, etc, etc." It was just such a huge difference between the style and class of those two groups of fans and obviously I would consider the OSU fans to be much more negative. The only thing I can think of is that their fanbase had never really seen a winner and didn't know how to handle success or to show class.

 

Maybe if you remove that desperation for a WS win, winning isn't everything anymore?

 

With the Red Sox, I think a lot of people that attend games at Fenway tend to be more white collar: Lawyers, Software guys, etc and also fans of the game itself, rather than necessarily just the Red Sox.

[IlliniKrush]

What Jim H has to say is pretty much right on. I just don't think they care enough, and like taking care of the problems when they actually happen - they aren't into preventing anything from possibly happening.

 

However, 2 years ago when 2 of my friends got kicked out for having cans of root beer in the stadium (yes, it was not beer or anything), they got kicked out immediately. They claimed they used "cameras" to catch them. I did not know they brought them in (we were tailgating so we had pop with us), and it's a stupid thing to do, though far from a terrible behavior. But man, they acted like my 2 friends were ex convicts. It was ridiculous. Kicked them out for drinking pop. We were in the upper deck, and no they weren't going to throw cans at anyone.

 

They can be so worried about that stuff, then just let abusive fans have a field day during games, leading to fights.

 

I'm not complaining, just explaining. Though i don't think they should have been kicked out immediately, that was quite harsh.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

In the other thread a lot of people jumped all over Marriotti over his reporting of the recent incident at US Cellular Field. Tex seemed to be the only one looking past Marriotti's assholeness and addressing the real issue, and rightly so.

 

I'm curious if anyone has any real answers for what needs to be done. This IS a problem, people. Yes, it happens at other parks, and I know you can show me articles about it. But, I'm not talking about other parks. I'm talking about OUR park. There are parks where this doesn't happen this often. What makes them different?

At least we're not shooting at each other.

 

Knock on wood.

[Queen Prawn]

After traveling to various sporting arenas in the midwest, I hate to say it but Chicago fans tend to be a rowdy bunch. Heck, I from Chicago and I got harassed at a Chicago Wolves game. Yeah Brain was wearing a Griffins jersey, but never verbally or visually cheered for the team. Through the whole game the guy was drinking and cursing at us telling us to go back to Michigan and the security just stood there and watch even when it looked like a few punches might be landed.

 

Jim's post says it all.

[Guest JimH]

One thing that needs to happen is for Sox fans to not accept this behavior. If 20 people complained about the language instead of 1, things would have been different.

 

I think we still have an image as the "Worlds Biggest Saloon". Our owner at the time even promoted it that way. That just takes time.

 

Nothing we can really do about the next thing, but more season ticket holders would help. When I was attending Bulls and Hawks games, I had season tickets and of course got to know everyone around us. If a casual fan got out of line, there was a dozen or two to keep it in check.

 

Good Sox fans cannot just stick their heads in the sand and pretend we're fine. I dislike reading negative stuff about the Sox as almost anyone, but when we load the damn gun and point it to our heads, why blame anyone in the media for pulling the trigger?

 

When my kids were growing up, they didn't know the Sox played at night. I would only take them to day games. There is a huge difference in the fans between our day and night games.

 

And finally. I had never seen a punch at a Bulls, Hawks, or Cubs game. Saw one at a Bears game in 1987. I have witnessed at least 20 shoving and punching fights at Cominsky.

OK Tex, I call bulls***.

 

Where did you sit for the Hawks games? I had section P, row 1, 1st balcony, on the aisle at the old Stadium and section 302, row 8, on the aisle at the UC.

 

Probably attended 30 games per year. How many did you attend? If you never saw a punch thrown, you were either incredibly lucky or were in the bathroom at the time. Believe me when I say it, Hawks games were, and are, notorious for altercations. And not just when there are 20,000 people there. I saw a pretty good dustup this year when there were about 7000 at the UC.

 

Bears games? Please. Ever been to a Bears-Packers game? Bears-Vikings? s*** goes on all the time. You're asking season ticket holders to band together, that's all well and good. We had season tix for the Hawks for 41 years and the Bears tickets are going strong in our family since before they even sold season tickets at Wrigley ... about 1939 or so. Season ticket holders sell or give away their tickets more now than ever, you know that as well as I do. Your solution is good in theory, but completely impractical. My Sox season tix are weekend in the bleachers, 27 games. I sell about 10 of those, and so does most of the season ticket holders around me.

 

You're asking people to police themselves and others around them. Good theory, I like it. Too bad it doesn't work. How many families would be intimidated to complain? Lots. How many people would rather pick up their kids and move to some empty seats, away from the goofballs? Lots. It is not people's job to police. That is security's job. It is people's job to monitor their OWN behavior. Unfortunately in society, it doesn't always work that way. No sports team makes a fan take a Pledge Of Good Conduct when they walk into a stadium.

 

Lastly, I have been to hundreds of day Sox games and hundreds of night Sox games. To generalize and say there is a big difference, I say no. It truly depends on the the day, the game, the weather, the opponent, lots of stuff. I've seen more dustups on Sunday afternoons in the bleachers than I do for some night games.

 

I've seen WAY more fights at Hawks games and until recently, at Bears games than at Comiskey/U.S. Cellular. You paint it as if U.S. Cellular is the worst of all, I beg to differ. Whether you like it or not, there is a publicity difference going on here. I'm not saying Chicago media is evil, but very frankly Wirtz in particular knows how to get alot of s*** swept under the rug. Don't kid yourself that everywhere is safe and kid friendly, except for U.S. Cellular.

[IlliniKrush]

My dad had Hawks season tickets since i was born until they moved to the UC, and i made almost every game since i got into first grade. So i've seen 200+ games there (chicago stadium)

 

Even being that young, i remember PLENTY of fights. The bright yellow security jackets scrambling in the balcony to break it up. I was in the second balcony, on the goal line where the locker room entrance was. Man there were plenty of fights.

 

And game 4 of the 2002 playoff series vs the Blues saw a HUGE scrum in section 330 or so - I was in 326 behind the net.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

OK Tex, I call bulls***.

 

Where did you sit for the Hawks games?  I had section P, row 1, 1st balcony, on the aisle at the old Stadium and section 302, row 8, on the aisle at the UC.

 

Probably attended 30 games per year.  How many did you attend?  If you never saw a punch thrown, you were either incredibly lucky or were in the bathroom at the time.  Believe me when I say it, Hawks games were, and are, notorious for altercations.  And not just when there are 20,000 people there.  I saw a pretty good dustup this year when there were about 7000 at the UC.

 

Bears games?  Please.  Ever been to a Bears-Packers game?  Bears-Vikings?  s*** goes on all the time.  You're asking season ticket holders to band together, that's all well and good.  We had season tix for the Hawks for 41 years and the Bears tickets are going strong in our family since before they even sold season tickets at Wrigley ... about 1939 or so.  Season ticket holders sell or give away their tickets more now than ever, you know that as well as I do.  Your solution is good in theory, but completely impractical.  My Sox season tix are weekend in the bleachers, 27 games.  I sell about 10 of those, and so does most of the season ticket holders around me.

 

You're asking people to police themselves and others around them.  Good theory, I like it.  Too bad it doesn't work.  How many families would be intimidated to complain?  Lots.  How many people would rather pick up their kids and move to some empty seats, away from the goofballs?  Lots.  It is not people's job to police.  That is security's job.  It is people's job to monitor their OWN behavior.  Unfortunately in society, it doesn't always work that way.  No sports team makes a fan take a Pledge Of Good Conduct when they walk into a stadium.

 

Lastly, I have been to hundreds of day Sox games and hundreds of night Sox games.  To generalize and say there is a big difference, I say no.  It truly depends on the the day, the game, the weather, the opponent, lots of stuff.  I've seen more dustups on Sunday afternoons in the bleachers than I do for some night games.

 

I've seen WAY more fights at Hawks games and until recently, at Bears games than at Comiskey/U.S. Cellular.  You paint it as if U.S. Cellular is the worst of all, I beg to differ.  Whether you like it or not, there is a publicity difference going on here.  I'm not saying Chicago media is evil, but very frankly Wirtz in particular knows how to get alot of s*** swept under the rug.  Don't kid yourself that everywhere is safe and kid friendly, except for U.S. Cellular.

Any time you mix sports, alcohol and young men you are going to have the potential for some of this type of stuff. You throw in a few loudmouth assholes who cheer for the other team and that's a 2X multiplier.

[Guest JimH]

Just to add one more thing, try going to a Brewers-Cubs game at Miller Park.

 

Tons and tons of problems. Drunken Brewer fans, drunken Cub fans. Bad mix.

 

Old County Stadium was worse. I saw the absolute worst fight ever during a Sox-Brewers game up there. It was all Brewer fans fighting each other, nothing to do with sports allegiances, everything to do with some personal beef and poor security.

[Texsox]

All during the 1988-1995 time frame.

 

Bulls games, old stadium, second balcony, center court, last row. Easy to climb out under the railing, never had to worry about fans crossing in front. Never saw a fight.

 

Hawks, mezzanine, blue line, player's bench side. Never saw a fight.

 

Bears, always picked up tickets either through a broker so never in the same location. Saw a fight when a guy's girlfriend/wife was hit by an ice/snow ball during a Vikings game.

 

Are you claiming then that families should just accept that violence will happen at sports events? Listening to f*** You and witnessing fights is all just fun at the ol' ball park?

 

I'm not saying everything is safe and kid friendly, I just see it as a problem, you (JimH) do not seem to.

 

I read and re-read your post and still do not see what your solution is besides saying hell, other stadiums are worse.

[Texsox]

Just to add one more thing, try going to a Brewers-Cubs game at Miller Park.

 

Tons and tons of problems.  Drunken Brewer fans, drunken Cub fans.  Bad mix.

 

Old County Stadium was worse.  I saw the absolute worst fight ever during a Sox-Brewers game up there.  It was all Brewer fans fighting each other, nothing to do with sports allegiances, everything to do with some personal beef and poor security.

So just print on the tickets, attending sporting events may result in a broken nose, stiches, and your kids being exposed to X-rated language. It's your risk.

[Controlled Chaos]

In the other thread a lot of people jumped all over Marriotti over his reporting of the recent incident at US Cellular Field. Tex seemed to be the only one looking past Marriotti's assholeness and addressing the real issue, and rightly so.

 

I'm curious if anyone has any real answers for what needs to be done. This IS a problem, people. Yes, it happens at other parks, and I know you can show me articles about it. But, I'm not talking about other parks. I'm talking about OUR park. There are parks where this doesn't happen this often. What makes them different?

I think the answer is people have to be responsible for their own actions...Some people are just assholes.

 

I mean honestly...how many people here would start s*** with someone telling you to watch your language cause of their kids. Even in my punk. Im smarter than anyone days...I wouldn't talk back to someone like that..let alone a cop. I'd feel like an idiot for swearin so loud...and I thinkn most people here would. Those guys have no respect for other people and clearly no respect for authority. Most people aren't like that.

 

 

As for solutions....well the only thing that sucks is they affect everyone because of a select few....but if ya want some...then here they are.

 

1) Stop paying vendors by how much beer the sell.

2)Only allow people to by beer in the vicinity of their seats. If you lost your ticket stub...oh well....sorry. It would cut down on at least one beer that people get as soon as they walk in the park. It would also force people to go to the same vendor or food place to get a beer.

3) have an asshole screener at the gates of the park. Marriotti should be good at it, since he looks at one in the mirror everyday.

 

I mean seriously...some things can be helped and somecan't. Like I said those guys were real jagbags. Most people are decent people...whether they been drinking or not....most of us know right from wrong. These guys weren't decent and you can tell by the way they acted. Is it cause they're sox fans??? I don't know. Hell I don't even know if they are sox fans. If they were at wrigley would they have done the same thing?? YEP!! If they were at wrigley and did do the same thing....would people associate them with the park and it's drunk unruley fans or would they just say these were a couple of jerks out of 99% of good fans. I'm thinking the latter. We just don't get that benefit of the doubt.

 

There's assholes everywhere...but our park is the only one with camera's in the toliet's!!!!!!!!

[Guest JimH]

Nuke, your second statement is 100% bang on correct.

 

Here is one way I police myself and at the risk of sounding like a 43 year old, I would suggest everyone take this advice, it has helped me big time.

 

When you go to some other teams stadium, for gawds sakes, just wear regular clothes.

 

Yeah, I understand all about team pride, team loyalty, etc. but you are just waving a red flag in front of a bull.

 

Hawks fans are NOTORIOUS HYPOCRITES on this issue. Everyone knows the Detroit people come down to the UC in droves for the Red Wing games at the United Center. Hawk fans get indignant (and I happen to agree with them) about all the Red Wing jerseys. Fights inevitably result.

 

I've been in about 30 opposing stadiums in other cities. Never once had a problem, Sox/Hawks/Bears. It's all about being respectful and knowing you are in the minority. People will be people and you are a BIG WALKING TARGET wearing an out of town jersey.

 

Yeah, it's wrong to be a target and all that, I get it, believe me. But people are people. I am amazed at how many times I see a dad with his 2-3 kids walking around at U.S. Cellular or at the United Center and they're all wearing the oppostion jerseys. I'm sorry, but that's poor judgement. Now don't get me wrong, they don't deserve to be abused ... but damn, if you're a dad, have a brain. Why would you deliberately walk into a place with your kids and make them a target? Especially in a sports-crazed city like Chicago? Is there any reason you can't go and be a little more quiet and root on your team and be respectful there are thousands and thousands of other people there who are passionately rooting for the home team?

 

That's an area people should do a better job self-policing. Hawks fans in particular take great offense when someone comes in wearing the other teams jerseys, but think it's all well and good they can wear the Indian Head to St. Louis, nashville, Detroit, etc. Sorry ... hypocritical.

 

And to step out on a limb here, if you were to ever ask these dads or whomever ... "What is your thought process of wearing the oppositions team jersey here", well, my experience is they are generally clueless people who are quite self-righteous too.

[YASNY]

I'm going to Arlington to see the Sox vs Rangers on July 19. You can bet your ass I'm going to be wearing a Sox hat and politely cheering for the Sox.

[Guest JimH]

All during the 1988-1995 time frame.

 

Bulls games, old stadium, second balcony, center court, last row. Easy to climb out under the railing, never had to worry about fans crossing in front. Never saw a fight.

 

Hawks, mezzanine, blue line, player's bench side. Never saw a fight.

 

Bears, always picked up tickets either through a broker so never in the same location. Saw a fight when a guy's girlfriend/wife was hit by an ice/snow ball during a Vikings game.

 

Are you claiming then that families should just accept that violence will happen at sports events? Listening to f*** You and witnessing fights is all just fun at the ol' ball park?

 

I'm not saying everything is safe and kid friendly, I just see it as a problem, you (JimH) do not seem to.

 

I read and re-read your post and still do not see what your solution is besides saying hell, other stadiums are worse.

You didn't read it Tex, and you're taking out of it what you want to take out of it.

 

My solution is security has to get more proactive. Also see my last post about visiting fans needing to police themselves better, i.e. have a f***ing brain.

 

We can't control that though. All we can control is our own behavior.

 

You should have turned around from your mezzanine seats at the Stadium. You would've seen more than you wanted.

 

Nowhere do I say, or even imply, that any problems are simply "fun at the old ballpark". Believe me, I hate when there are problems. I do not want to be a security guard. They have security guards, I have been to thousands of Chicago sports events in my lifetime, as have you probably, and I think it's a fair statement to say they should be more proactive.

 

You seem to think all the season ticket holders and fans in general should just hold hands, band together and not tolerate anything. That's pollyanna. People will be people, I hate it probably worse than you do. I don't accept it either. But no dad or mom or whomever wants to be a security guard and take matters into their own hands. That's what security is for.

 

Here is another solution, get rid of the 16 year old ushers and get some adults. They are generally nice kids, but they're not gonna be any deterrent whatsoever. It it costs a little more to have an adult usher there than a minimum wage 16 year old, I'm all for it.

[Guest JimH]

So just print on the tickets, attending sporting events may result in a broken nose, stiches, and your kids being exposed to X-rated language. It's your risk.

There is a risk for anyone in a public place, you know it as well as I do.

 

What's your solution, man?

 

You've been whining about the problems, I agree with you there are problems.

 

I hate the problems as much as you do.

 

What's your solution?

 

Sarcasm?

[IlliniKrush]

Interesting, interesting take JimH. You have a very good thought process there.

 

I've been to many of the Wings/Hawks games over the years. I don't think i necessarily get mad that the Wings fans wear jerseys and come in droves. It's just that i hate the wings. But even more, i hate our fans for not buying up the tickets and preventing this from happening in the first place (or Wirtz for selling them to them, i've heard stuff about selling directly to groups of them).

 

In fact, thought i hate Detroit, i'll give their fans some credit for traveling in droves to support their team. Note that this doesn't mean the fair weather Chicago resident that wants to look cool in a Wings jersey. Those people get none of my respect.

 

I think it adds to the rivalry and the atmosphere of the game. Now, i don't agree that fighting adds to the atmosphere of the game, don't get me wrong there.

 

I appreciate wearing my team's colors to opposition stadiums (i've done this the most with the Illini). I see your point, JimH, and it's smart. Maybe some will call me to young or naive (i'm almost 21), but i just think i know what lines not to cross.

 

When i wear my colors, i realize i'm in the opposition's stadium. I will cheer, but not go absolutely nuts or cheer at someone or against the opposition, etc. At IU, i was in the student section for a bball game. I got harrassed like all hell, believe me, but i just didn't talk back to ANYONE except the friend i was there with, and there were no problems, overall. I'd like to think i'm smart enough to realize i'm in the minority and while supporting your team, don't make yourself a huge target. I'd like to think most people could do this.

[Steff]

I'm going to Arlington to see the Sox vs Rangers on July 19.  You can bet your ass I'm going to be wearing a Sox hat and politely cheering for the Sox.

They are classy fans down there. You'll have no troubles.