Rex Hudler Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 The key is Method - did they swing, or just start their swing and check it? If it would be a checked swing then it is still a dead ball. Just think of it like the ball didn't hit the batter anywhere. If he checked his swing, it is a ball. If he swings it is a strike. Add the ball hitting the batter's hand and you get a hit batter in the first example and a strike that hurt in the second. Another example..... say a batter swings through a pitch, but it hits him on the hands instead of the bat. The ball then rolls right to the pitcher in front of the mound. Is the hand part of the bat then? Nope. The correct call would be a dead ball because it hit the batter, but a strike since he swung. That scenario would rarely happen in a Major League game becuase big league hitters have better judgement than to let a ball hit them in the hands that they are taking a full swing at. It happens more often on checked swings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgeportHeather Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Thanks guys for helping me understand this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I allways just figured that the tie goes to the runner was just some bulls*** expression that announcers used just so they could be saying something. It's just one of those things you hear beginning in LL. One of my other favorites is when you hear coaches and dads yelling at the batter to "get his elbow up", which is exactly the wrong thing to do. What they should be saying is get your elbows down and your hands up. No relevance here, just one of those things you always here that happens to be incorrect. I make the kids I coach try batting with an orange under their armpit to keep their elbows down. Also irrelevant, just if anyone needed something to try at home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Just one comment on the "evening up" discussion.... I know I have seen big league umpires "give a pitch" back to the pitcher when they knew they called a strike as a ball. And I've seen it on more than one occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Mathew, a piece of paper works well too. Yasny, perhaps subconsciously the next close pitch gets called the other way if an umpire takes a lot of heat from the first one, but they do not intentionally even up. I assure you that regardless of what anyone says, it does not happen. The game happens way too fast for an umpire to be thinking about those kinds of things when a pitch is coming or a play is happening at first. I know that most of you won't believe that, but I'm telling you that those things don't go through umpires minds. They would not keep their jobs if they followed the two wrongs make a right approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I'm gonna try and come close, but may not be exact. There are three ways... 1. When a pitcher enters the game with a lead of thee runs or less and finishes that game without relinquishing the lead. 2. When a pitcher enters the game (regardless of the lead) with the tying run at the plate or in the on-deck circle and finishes that game without relinquishing the lead. For example, Koch comes into a 5-0 game in the 9th inning with the bases loaded. He would qualify because the potential tying run is on deck. This is the one I may be off on, but I think I got it right. 3. When a pitcher pitches three or more innings effectively without relinquishing the lead he inherited. Again, he must finish the game to earn the save. This is kind of the BS save rule, because a guy can enter a 10-0 game and pitch the 7th, 8th and 9th and get a save. If i missed something or was off on any of this, please correct me. This was off the top of my head and it has been years since I have seen it all in print. i dont think you missed anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 The thing is there is no tie. The umpire has to decide which happened first. It is humanly impossible to decipher whether they got there at the "exact" same time, so the decision is made. Think of it this way...... when an umpire makes a call at first, he looks at the bag for the runners foot and listens for the sound of the ball hitting the 1Bman's glove. There is no way he can see both at the same time. So theoretically, if he hears the sound at the same time as he sees the foot hit the bag, then the runner is out. Here's why.... The speed of sound travels slower than the speed of light (vision). So, if the sound is heard at the same time as the foot is seen to hit the bag, then the sound actually occurred fractions of a second sooner because of the slower speed sound travels. Now an umpire isn't going to use that explanation on a Major League manager who came out to argue. He will just say that the ball beat him. The bottom line is it is a judgement call and the judgement must be made as to which happened first. In an umpire's mind, there is no tie. So if you hear a big league announcer ever say that, then you know he doesn't know what he is talking about and is just spewing what everyone else has heard forever. in base ball tie goes to the runner so in most cases he will be safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 The thing is there is no tie. The umpire has to decide which happened first. It is humanly impossible to decipher whether they got there at the "exact" same time, so the decision is made. Think of it this way...... when an umpire makes a call at first, he looks at the bag for the runners foot and listens for the sound of the ball hitting the 1Bman's glove. There is no way he can see both at the same time. So theoretically, if he hears the sound at the same time as he sees the foot hit the bag, then the runner is out. Here's why.... The speed of sound travels slower than the speed of light (vision). So, if the sound is heard at the same time as the foot is seen to hit the bag, then the sound actually occurred fractions of a second sooner because of the slower speed sound travels. Now an umpire isn't going to use that explanation on a Major League manager who came out to argue. He will just say that the ball beat him. The bottom line is it is a judgement call and the judgement must be made as to which happened first. In an umpire's mind, there is no tie. So if you hear a big league announcer ever say that, then you know he doesn't know what he is talking about and is just spewing what everyone else has heard forever. in base ball tie goes to the runner so in most cases he will be safe You haven't been listening. There is no such thing as a tie... there is no rule that the tie goes to the runner. He is either safe or out, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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