cwsox Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Daubach makes the team, Hes the lefty off the bench. The one i see not making the team is Rios. A couple weeks ago there was a blurb in a article that said the sox indend to ship sandy to the "dl" as often as needed. Hes basicaly here to mentor Miguel, thats about it. welcome to the board! I agree Daubach should make the team. I agree that Sandy is here to mentor Miguel and will go on the DL as often as needed. My question: who then is the back up catcher when Miguel starts and Sandy is on the DL? I can't see JP clearing waivers once let alone back and forth - so... ????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac9001 Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Daubach makes the team, Hes the lefty off the bench. The one i see not making the team is Rios. A couple weeks ago there was a blurb in a article that said the sox indend to ship sandy to the "dl" as often as needed. Hes basicaly here to mentor Miguel, thats about it. Rios has a garentted contract, so it's unlikely the Sox would be willing to just leave him in AAA or flat out release him. While with Daubach if they decided to cut him they wont have to pay him s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Daubach makes the team, Hes the lefty off the bench. The one i see not making the team is Rios. A couple weeks ago there was a blurb in a article that said the sox indend to ship sandy to the "dl" as often as needed. Hes basicaly here to mentor Miguel, thats about it. welcome to the board! I agree Daubach should make the team. I agree that Sandy is here to mentor Miguel and will go on the DL as often as needed. My question: who then is the back up catcher when Miguel starts and Sandy is on the DL? I can't see JP clearing waivers once let alone back and forth - so... ????????? cw...Jamie Burke.....the minor league free agent that was with the Angels last year. If someone picks Paul up....we have more options. And then there is the ageless Mark Dalesandro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Some of you have said that you think that Daubach or Rios will not make the club. I, in no way, see that happening. Also, I couldn't care less if Paul is released. Some say that you need the third catcher when Sandy goes down, but what makes Josh Paul so qualified over another to do it. We could have Paul Konerko be third catcher, as he is the emergency man that all teams have. ( At least he was a couple years ago.) Maybe we should call up Steve Decker, who I believe can still hit a t the big league level. I know the guy personally, if you do not remember him, look up his stats. Last played in Major Leagues for Anaheim in 1999. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Daubach should make the big league club and Rios should be put on waivers at the end of ST...if someone takes him....that's fine and dandy. If someone trades for him....that's fine and dandy. If no one takes him and he has to play minor league ball....that's fine and dandy too. I just personally don't believe Rios will make the team....but that's just what I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 And then there is the ageless Mark Dalesandro! oh come on, is he still around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 And then there is the ageless Mark Dalesandro! oh come on, is he still around? I'm pretty sure he is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I just looked him up at baseball referance it looks like other than 1 at bat for us in 2001 he hasn't played since 1999- which would mean he's available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 He's awesome!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Daubach makes the team, Hes the lefty off the bench. The one i see not making the team is Rios. A couple weeks ago there was a blurb in a article that said the sox indend to ship sandy to the "dl" as often as needed. Hes basicaly here to mentor Miguel, thats about it. Method, I can't buy the "phantom DL" argument for Sandy. The player's union would never allow it. I know it is done in the Minor Leagues, but the player's union is too strong to allow that to happen. I have never heard of that happening in the Major Leagues. Perhaps it could, but I would be hard pressed to see it. I agree with everyone about keeping only two catchers. I think JP would clear waivers on his way to Charlotte. There are a lot of veteran catchers out there that will end up in AAA that would be better options than JP. If they lose him, they can always pick up another catcher via trade. It would merely cost them a "player to be named" or a mid-level Minor Leaguer. Rios is on a Major League contract where Daubach is on a Minor League deal. The Sox do have some room to add to their 40-man roster (2 spots, I think?) so Daubach is a possibility, but I can't see him instead of Rios. I think they will keep both Daubach and Rios. Harris could be a candidate to be sent down, but I think they would prefer to keep him and Graffy. A lot depends on JM's desire to carry 12 pitchers. With all of the off games in Apri, I don't think that is necessary, but he and Coop know their pitchers and what they can do in colder weather better than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Rex....you have never seen the phantom DL? Try last year....I don't care what anyone said about Ritchie's shoulder....I think that was probably a case of the phanton DL. Put him on the DL, with a "shoulder" injury, to avoid him losing 20 games. KW's pride interfered with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Keep in mind that trades definitely could come into play late in ST. Also, some of the vets signed to Minor League deals like Daubach, Heredia and Loaiza may not accept an assignment to AAA, but rather ask for their release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Rex....you have never seen the phantom DL? Try last year....I don't care what anyone said about Ritchie's shoulder....I think that was probably a case of the phanton DL. Put him on the DL, with a "shoulder" injury, to avoid him losing 20 games. KW's pride interfered with that one. Not to a completely healthy player who is able to strongly contribute. I think Alomar is a much better option than Paul so why would the Sox want him on the DL if he can play a couple of times a week? In the Ritchie deal, I don't have firsthand knowledge of it. Perhaps the union didn't say anything because they were trying to protect him. I guess certain situations could gain the blessing of both the player and the union, but I would think they would be rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Rex....you have never seen the phantom DL? Try last year....I don't care what anyone said about Ritchie's shoulder....I think that was probably a case of the phanton DL. Put him on the DL, with a "shoulder" injury, to avoid him losing 20 games. KW's pride interfered with that one. Not to a completely healthy player who is able to strongly contribute. I think Alomar is a much better option than Paul so why would the Sox want him on the DL if he can play a couple of times a week? In the Ritchie deal, I don't have firsthand knowledge of it. Perhaps the union didn't say anything because they were trying to protect him. I guess certain situations could gain the blessing of both the player and the union, but I would think they would be rare. No, I don't understand why we would put Alomar on the DL if he was completely healthy. I was just stating that the phantom DL does exist, and you only have to go back to last season to realize that. I assume when a player is closing in on 20 losses or something like that....the union may allow it, for personal pride. Tanyon Sturtze is lucky as hell....he lost 18 games last year....and I know he kicked the s*** out of us one time too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Daubach makes the team, Hes the lefty off the bench. The one i see not making the team is Rios. A couple weeks ago there was a blurb in a article that said the sox indend to ship sandy to the "dl" as often as needed. Hes basicaly here to mentor Miguel, thats about it. Method, I can't buy the "phantom DL" argument for Sandy. The player's union would never allow it. I know it is done in the Minor Leagues, but the player's union is too strong to allow that to happen. I have never heard of that happening in the Major Leagues. Perhaps it could, but I would be hard pressed to see it. I agree with everyone about keeping only two catchers. I think JP would clear waivers on his way to Charlotte. There are a lot of veteran catchers out there that will end up in AAA that would be better options than JP. If they lose him, they can always pick up another catcher via trade. It would merely cost them a "player to be named" or a mid-level Minor Leaguer. Rios is on a Major League contract where Daubach is on a Minor League deal. The Sox do have some room to add to their 40-man roster (2 spots, I think?) so Daubach is a possibility, but I can't see him instead of Rios. I think they will keep both Daubach and Rios. Harris could be a candidate to be sent down, but I think they would prefer to keep him and Graffy. A lot depends on JM's desire to carry 12 pitchers. With all of the off games in Apri, I don't think that is necessary, but he and Coop know their pitchers and what they can do in colder weather better than I do. there is no doubt in my mind ritchie wasnt hurt when he went on the DL..he was on pace for 21 losses at the time...any pitcher that close to 20 losses in a season mysteriously ends up on the DL...the legend known as brian kingman will live on forever!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Ritchie might lose 20 this year, even if he does go on the DL. When you are a crappy pitcher and you are pitching for a crappy team....you will not get good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 They way I see it is that the Sox will go north with 11 pitchers. Then there are 11 position players who will definitely be on the team barring trade or injury. Those are Olivo, Alomar, Thomas, Konerko, Jiminez, Valentin, Crede, Graffinino, Lee, Rowand, and Ordonez. That leaves 3 spots to be filled from this group: Paul, Harris, Daubach, Rios and possibly Miles or Borchard. Taking into consideration that Rowand and Graffy are unproven health wise at this point, you almost have to have Harris make the club. JM said the it will very hard for Daubach not to make the team, so you have to figure he'll go north. I think they'll keep Rios and try and send Paul throuh waivers and back to AAA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I noticed that someone mentioned about PK catching (as he did until he hit the Dodger's minor league system when his hip problem was found)...he's said that he would never catch again, not because he's a prick or something but because of the pain from catching. Someone also mentiion about Graff catching - didn't he do some emergency catching for us last year? If so, maybe he can double as a back up for when alomar goes down until they can trade/sign or if Josh Paul makes it through waivers, they get him back up here. It's a clumsy solution to this puzzle, but I don't think there is a clear answer to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 given PK's hip problems the idea of him ever catching again are ludicrous - not sure who posted that and don't care, I passed on it then because I didn't feel like being in dispute with anyone. If Graf could short term catch, it would be cool - so would JP learning how to play all the other postions so he could be of value as the ultimate utility man - is Graf fully back from his injury? If the question is between JP and Rios, JP might have more value to us in this situation unless Rios can catch... of course an injury to anyone may answer the question its own self Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I noticed that someone mentioned about PK catching (as he did until he hit the Dodger's minor league system when his hip problem was found)...he's said that he would never catch again, not because he's a prick or something but because of the pain from catching. Someone also mentiion about Graff catching - didn't he do some emergency catching for us last year? If so, maybe he can double as a back up for when alomar goes down until they can trade/sign or if Josh Paul makes it through waivers, they get him back up here. It's a clumsy solution to this puzzle, but I don't think there is a clear answer to it. If anything is more stupid and distracting than a "closer-by-committee" situation, it would have to be a "catcher-by-committee" situation. Watching the Sox flip-flop closers last season was bad enough. Watching them flip-flop catchers in 2003 would make me vomit. Also, do you think Garland, Wright, and possibly Rauch or Stewart want to throw to PK or Graffy? The only thing they want to throw to those guys are DP attempts -- not pitches. Young guys need constancy, and playing musical catchers would be a horrible idea. Stick with Olivo and Sandy, and ship Paul down to AAA. Plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I hear you on closer by committee but I don't see JP clearing waivers and we know Sandy will be on the DL at some point - hell, Miguel could get injured, hope he doesn't - then JP who knows our staff and is ok enough, I say we keep 3 catchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I noticed that someone mentioned about PK catching (as he did until he hit the Dodger's minor league system when his hip problem was found)...he's said that he would never catch again, not because he's a prick or something but because of the pain from catching. Someone also mentiion about Graff catching - didn't he do some emergency catching for us last year? If so, maybe he can double as a back up for when alomar goes down until they can trade/sign or if Josh Paul makes it through waivers, they get him back up here. It's a clumsy solution to this puzzle, but I don't think there is a clear answer to it. If anything is more stupid and distracting than a "closer-by-committee" situation, it would have to be a "catcher-by-committee" situation. Watching the Sox flip-flop closers last season was bad enough. Watching them flip-flop catchers in 2003 would make me vomit. Also, do you think Garland, Wright, and possibly Rauch or Stewart want to throw to PK or Graffy? The only thing they want to throw to those guys are DP attempts -- not pitches. Young guys need constancy, and playing musical catchers would be a horrible idea. Stick with Olivo and Sandy, and ship Paul down to AAA. Plain and simple. Um, that's kinda what I said - send Paul down and if Alomar goes on the DL, have graff backup Olivo until someone else can be brought up or signed/traded for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Um, that's kinda what I said - send Paul down and if Alomar goes on the DL, have graff backup Olivo until someone else can be brought up or signed/traded for... How long does it take for a player to be called up from AAA to the majors? A matter of what, 6-8 hours? So I don't know why Graffanino would have to catch at all (unless both catchers got hurt at the same time). If either Miguel or Sandy got hurt mid-game, Paul would be immediately called up, and since he will have been playing everyday at AAA, he will be more than ready to step in and back-up for as long as necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Um, that's kinda what I said - send Paul down and if Alomar goes on the DL, have graff backup Olivo until someone else can be brought up or signed/traded for... How long does it take for a player to be called up from AAA to the majors? A matter of what, 6-8 hours? So I don't know why Graffanino would have to catch at all (unless both catchers got hurt at the same time). If either Miguel or Sandy got hurt mid-game, Paul would be immediately called up, and since he will have been playing everyday at AAA, he will be more than ready to step in and back-up for as long as necessary. If Paul doesn't clear waivers (that's the time frame I am referring to mostly), who could we call from AAA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 If Paul doesn't clear waivers (that's the time frame I am referring to mostly), who could we call from AAA? Someone in another post referred to this guy Burke and whoever the other catcher is. If the injury to either Miguel or Sandy is minor, one of the new new guys could called up. If it's something more severe, then a trade would probably have to be made for some average backup. Wouldn't be that pressing of an issue IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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