greasywheels121 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 http://www.suntimes.com/output/deluca/cst-spt-deluca063.htm Go to the link for a nice little breakdown of all KW's trades. Chicago lord of trade: Williams has Sox in hunt July 6, 2004 BY CHRIS DE LUCA Ken Williams got the unwanted label of wheeler-dealer early in his career as the White Sox' general manager, making a big splash with the David Wells trade before the 2001 season. Williams always has been deft in making the splashy deals, whether it's for Wells, Billy Koch, Todd Ritchie or Freddy Garcia. All of those trades for big-name pitchers came with a lot of fanfare and big promises for the future. The first three never panned out -- and it's too early to judge the Garcia deal, which looks like it should be a winner. But the same was said a week after Wells, Koch and Ritchie were acquired. While Williams always will be known for those blockbusters, the Sox are where they are today -- in the thick of a pennant race -- because of a series of moves Williams made that got little or no fanfare. There wasn't much of a buzz when deals such as Willie Harris for Chris Singleton, Juan Uribe for Aaron Miles or Damaso Marte for Matt Guerrier were announced. ESPN didn't feel the need to lead ''SportsCenter'' with news of those trades. But where would the Sox be without those three trades, not to mention the scrap-heap findings of right-hander Esteban Loaiza -- an All-Star twice since signing a minor-league contract on Jan. 27, 2003 -- or reliever Cliff Politte last January? Even the signing of closer Shingo Takatsu on Jan. 22 got more attention in Tokyo than Chicago. ''We don't have the obvious resources of a high-revenue team such as the Cubs,'' Williams said Monday, ''so we have to rely a little more on Scouting 101.'' Looking at their track record, Williams and Co. have aced the course. Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf took a risk in October 2000 when he replaced longtime GM Ron Schueler with an untested Williams. Williams immediately showed his aggressive side, shocking Chicago with the Wells deal. It was an aggressive move to land the veteran starter the Sox lacked in the 2000 playoffs. But it backfired, beginning with Mike Sirotka's bum shoulder and Wells' bad back and selfish attitude. The next winter, Williams pulled off the Ritchie trade, sending promising young right-handed starters Kip Wells and Josh Fogg, along with bullpen bulldog Sean Lowe, to the Pittsburgh Pirates. Ritchie was coming off an 11-15 season, but he had a 4.47 ERA in 33 starts. The Ritchie deal was Williams' biggest flop. The right-hander, now pitching for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays' Class AAA Durham Bulls, went 5-15 with a 6.06 ERA for the Sox in 2002. ''Out of all the trades, there's only one I would take back,'' Williams said, referring to the Ritchie deal. ''That turned out to be a bad one. I'm not sure what we were thinking there.'' The next winter, Koch was on Williams' wish list, and he landed him in a huge deal, sending closer Keith Foulke, catcher Mark Johnson and minor-league pitcher Joe Valentine to the Oakland Athletics for Koch and two players to be named later. One was left-hander Neal Cotts, now a key member of the Sox' bullpen and a likely starter in the future. When the Koch deal was announced, it looked as though Williams filled a key need by getting rid of Foulke, who had trouble keeping his closer's job in 2002. Foulke, who was eligible for free agency after the 2003 season, had lost his job and, more important, the confidence of manager Jerry Manuel. It didn't take Koch long to do the same. Another big deal gone south. ''If people point to one or two deals in pointing out the terrible job we've done,'' Williams said, ''well, in the grand scheme of things, that's not too bad.'' The point, though, is that while Cubs general manager Jim Hendry gets praise for stocking his roster with key understudies such as Todd Hollandsworth, Ramon Martinez, Todd Walker and Glendon Rusch, Williams deserves equal credit for landing Uribe, Harris, Marte, Scott Schoeneweis and even outfielder Ross Gload. Gload's acquisition from the Colorado Rockies for left-hander Wade Parrish on March 27, 2003, isn't even mentioned in the Sox' media guide under recent transactions. That's OK. Sometimes those little trades pay the biggest dividends. That's not to say Williams will change his style. ''The one thing I can assure people of is we will be aggressive if we feel there is a deal that is going to make us better,'' Williams said. ''And along the way, I can assure you we will make more mistakes.'' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringfieldFan Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Very nice article. However, I have to disagree with the statement that the Wells deal backfired. I don't think it backfired simply for the reason that the Sox ended up losing nothing when they got Wells. Sirotka lost all value with the injury. The only argument that could possibly be made is that KW should have traded him for someone other then Wells, but nevertheless the Sox weren't in worse position because of the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 Very nice article. However, I have to disagree with the statement that the Wells deal backfired. I don't think it backfired simply for the reason that the Sox ended up losing nothing when they got Wells. Sirotka lost all value with the injury. The only argument that could possibly be made is that KW should have traded him for someone other then Wells, but nevertheless the Sox weren't in worse position because of the trade. That's true. That trade was basically a wash; I think the only deal I hated of his was the Ritchie for Kip Wells and crew to Pittsburgh. Kip Wells would have been quite valuable to this club over the past couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 That's true. That trade was basically a wash; I think the only deal I hated of his was the Ritchie for Kip Wells and crew to Pittsburgh. Kip Wells would have been quite valuable to this club over the past couple years. I'd heard that the Ritchie for every prospect we have trade was actually Schueler's handy work. Does anybody remember hearing anything like that? And the D. Wells trade was actually a good one even with the injury. For all the "he was a bad clubhouse guy" reports you hear, Buehrle credits Wells for his development as a pitcher. Looking at it one way, Wells did give us a solid starting pitcher (maybe somebody almost at that Ace level) for quite a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I really wish we had kept Wells and Fogg as bargaining chips, and Lowe was pretty good in the pen the year before. Kip pitched pretty well last year, and might have gotten us to the playoffs. However, I think he could have been part of a monster deal if we kept him. He was starting to pitch okay at the major league level. Even now, I bet a bunch of teams would really want him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I really wish we had kept Wells and Fogg as bargaining chips, and Lowe was pretty good in the pen the year before. Kip pitched pretty well last year, and might have gotten us to the playoffs. However, I think he could have been part of a monster deal if we kept him. He was starting to pitch okay at the major league level. Even now, I bet a bunch of teams would really want him. Yeah, you can include the Sox in that list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I really wish we had kept Wells and Fogg as bargaining chips, and Lowe was pretty good in the pen the year before. Kip pitched pretty well last year, and might have gotten us to the playoffs. However, I think he could have been part of a monster deal if we kept him. He was starting to pitch okay at the major league level. Even now, I bet a bunch of teams would really want him. I would agree with Wells but Fogg and Lowe have gone way down hill since the trade. I don't even think Wells is anything special, but he is a hell of a lot better than Ritchie. Plus we gave up WAY too much for a pitcher with a 4.47 ERA in 33 starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 people keep forgetting about williams getting royce clayton and the trading of ray durham. how would you grade those trades???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 people keep forgetting about williams getting royce clayton and the trading of ray durham. how would you grade those trades???? We traded Aaron Myette for Clayton. I'd call that a win. Ray Durham for Adkins looks bad on the surface, but what that deal amounts too, is did you want draft picks or Jon Adkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 people keep forgetting about williams getting royce clayton and the trading of ray durham. how would you grade those trades???? Myette = Blah. That trade was a wash. And Durham was gone at the end of the year anyway. You're not going to get a whole lot for a 2nd baseman with a mediocre glove when everybody knows you're not going to keep him anyway. It's like if we didn't sign Garcia at the end of the year, then that would be a bad deal on our end. And considering that Oakland didn't win a championship that year, a Durham rental sure didn't seem worth it. But that's just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I think I would have rather taken my chances on Aaron Myette then have to deal with Choice again. He was a s***head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 He was a s***head. Well, I'll have to agree with you on that. "I didn't know that I was brought here to hit" - The Choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Ahhh, no more Clayton talk please it's bringing back horrifying memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 If you ask Ncorbgl, Kenny is not even the GM Back to the topic, Kenny is an awesome GM because he understands risk taking....he does not do things the safe way and hope to get lucky with the WS win that has eluded us.....he goes out and takes chances to get us the elusive WS ring....and he does that with VERY limited resources (very tight budget, little hope of increasing fan support in a town fixated on the Cubs and a team that has never been known as a team that FAs would yearn to go to for less money) Hence, Kenny should be applauded for actually working and doing everything to win. The man is possessed to win.....hopefully, we have him with us for a long time. I really really hope for his sake we get to the WS, because he puts his job on the line every time he makes a trade. KENNY WILLIAMS......YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 We traded Aaron Myette for Clayton. I'd call that a win. Ray Durham for Adkins looks bad on the surface, but what that deal amounts too, is did you want draft picks or Jon Adkins. lets see, ummm a cancer in the lockroom who may have done more damage than anyone can imagine or a career minor leaguer.......... i would take the career minor leaguer. adkins or draft picks............ you are kidding now right? i would take the draft pick. i still haven't mention the other trades yet .. ah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Myette = Blah. That trade was a wash. And Durham was gone at the end of the year anyway. You're not going to get a whole lot for a 2nd baseman with a mediocre glove when everybody knows you're not going to keep him anyway. It's like if we didn't sign Garcia at the end of the year, then that would be a bad deal on our end. And considering that Oakland didn't win a championship that year, a Durham rental sure didn't seem worth it. But that's just my two cents. with your logic there, that is all what it is worth, 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 If you ask Ncorbgl, Kenny is not even the GM Back to the topic, Kenny is an awesome GM because he understands risk taking....he does not do things the safe way and hope to get lucky with the WS win that has eluded us.....he goes out and takes chances to get us the elusive WS ring....and he does that with VERY limited resources (very tight budget, little hope of increasing fan support in a town fixated on the Cubs and a team that has never been known as a team that FAs would yearn to go to for less money) Hence, Kenny should be applauded for actually working and doing everything to win. The man is possessed to win.....hopefully, we have him with us for a long time. I really really hope for his sake we get to the WS, because he puts his job on the line every time he makes a trade. KENNY WILLIAMS......YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :puke you got to be kidding :puke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 adkins or draft picks............ you are kidding now right? i would take the draft pick. i'd take adkins. he's in the majors. the draft pick could've been a bust and we'd have gotten nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 i'd take adkins. he's in the majors. the draft pick could've been a bust and we'd have gotten nothing adkins is = nothing. plain and simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 adkins is = nothing. plain and simple he's a cheap reliever with a 3.12 ERA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevHead0881 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 with your logic there, that is all what it is worth, 2 cents. After such a convincing argument, I guess I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 he's a cheap reliever with a 3.12 ERA last 7 days, 2 appearances, 2 ip 2 runs, 1 hr and era of 9.00. yep a real stellar performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 After such a convincing argument, I guess I stand corrected. at least you know your place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 last 7 days, 2 appearances, 2 ip 2 runs, 1 hr and era of 9.00. yep a real stellar performance. yeah i'm sorry that he can't be perfect every time out. how about his month of June? 1 ER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 yeah i'm sorry that he can't be perfect every time out. how about his month of June? 1 ER he did not have a 1.00 era for june, on top of that he only pitched in 5.2 innings, we can go on forever trying to manipulate the stats to prove ourself. the bottom line is the main stat, 3.12 era, whip of 1.58, hitters avg 2.8+ with a slugging percent of over 4.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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