Brian Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Guardado has also openly expressed his desire to return to Minnesota. He said earlier in the season that leaving Minnesota was a mistake. That was very bush league of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 No one here has mentioned that Guardado has a no-trade clause. A deal with Chicago would need to get over that hurdle. Guardado has also openly expressed his desire to return to Minnesota. He said earlier in the season that leaving Minnesota was a mistake. Point is that one of the other teams the Sox may be competing against is Minnesota. And Minnesota has lots of what the Mariners need. Keep him, I don't want a rotten former Twin anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Guardado has also openly expressed his desire to return to Minnesota. He said earlier in the season that leaving Minnesota was a mistake. If he really wanted to stay with the Twins he should have taken less money and stayed there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 If he really wanted to stay with the Twins he should have taken less money and stayed there... Agreed. I really don't know how I feel about Guardado. I like his numbers; however, picturing him in a Sox uni sounds a little wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 If the Sox didn't cave in to Seattle's demands for Crede in the Garcia trade, they won't give him up for Guardado either. Concern ... Guardado had some elbow problems this year, didn't he? I saw Levine at Wrigley on Saturday and he mentioned bullpen help was a strong possibility but he mentioned Hasegawa, not Guardado. Things change fast I guess. Jim Eddie is pretty cheap. 4 million per year for three years. That is pretty good. He has been real good for the mariners. I see at least one of our minor league hitters going plus I see rowand and or Willie the piece of s*** Harris. Boone is too expensive for a rebuilding project. Remember Lafontaine knows our system very well, they can easily get a pitcher in this deal as well, then trade next year from strength. With Eddie, marte and Shingo, that is a great pen. I see at least one of our guys from the team going plus minors. Jim can you call me at home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariners Wheelhouse Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 That was very bush league of him. Here's Guardado's comment in fuller context: Closer Eddie Guardado was asked by a Minneapolis columnist Tuesday whether, if he had it to do over, he'd have signed with the Seattle Mariners as a free agent. "I'm not going to lie," Guardado said. "No." Here the link to the story from the Everett Herald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Great, let's make them throw in Reed while they are at it. Seriously though this sounds like a good move for the Sox. As long as the Sox don't give up major league players I'm ok with it. Give away mid level prospects. Rauch, maybe even Diaz, etc. What really worries me is that the Sox will have to give up a guy like Crede. Not to say I think Crede is great, I think he will be, but I hate giving up major league players when you are trying to improve your team unless the player you are giving up is the same position as the player you are getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasox24 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 That was very bush league of him. yes it was... He should have stayed in Minny if he was just gonna b**** soon after about wishing he was still there. Of course, I'm sure if Seattle was playing at all like they have in the last couple of years, Guardado wouldn't have been complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Steve from Mariners Wheelhouse here, wandering over from the Seattle Mariners Top MLB Forum. Interesting discussion. No one here has mentioned that Guardado has a no-trade clause. A deal with Chicago would need to get over that hurdle. Guardado has also openly expressed his desire to return to Minnesota. He said earlier in the season that leaving Minnesota was a mistake. Point is that one of the other teams the Sox may be competing against is Minnesota. And Minnesota has lots of what the Mariners need. Guardado has been far and away the best pitcher in the Mariners bullpen, and he is death to left-handed hitters. following are Avg OBP SLG OPS against for 2004: vs lefties: .088 .111 .118 .229 !!!! vs righties: .185 .265 .304 .569 Spiezio is not reported to be injured. He started the season on the DL with a back problem. There has been no subsequent mention of any lingering issues from the injury, but his production season does provide reason to wonder. Re Crede, Reed and the Garcia trade. The story in Seattle, reported by some folks who have contacts in the Mariners FO, is that Reed was always in the deal - he was the centerpiece in the deal. The negotiations were about who the other players would be. If those stories are correct, it was not necessarily a situation of Williams refusing to include Crede. If there are additional discussions with the White Sox, I would expect Crede to be part of the talks. The Mariners don't have any truly strong options within the organization to fill that spot. The upcoming FA class looks like a good one for third basemen and the Mariners have lots of FA money available, so they are probably not going to extend themselves too far going after Crede. The twinks cannot afford him at 4 million per. they simply cannot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 The twinks cannot afford him at 4 million per. they simply cannot What kind of a fit would a Jaques Jones be in Seattle? Don't they have a ton of positional prospects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 The twinks cannot afford him at 4 million per. they simply cannot Oh my God, who are you and what are you doing here? Are you kiddin' me? I'm serious! What's the matter with you? Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Spiezio is not injured and is homering in the Big Leagues as of an hour ago. I would be quite dissaponted if Shiggy came here. Earlier in the year I was convinced that he was a major reason for the Mariners downfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Oh my God, who are you and what are you doing here? Are you kiddin' me? I'm serious! What's the matter with you? Please. are you serious! I treid to get you to call, can you call me, you know what I'm saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 On a webcast, will call at 8:00. Please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Spiezio is not injured and is homering in the Big Leagues as of an hour ago. I would be quite dissaponted if Shiggy came here. Earlier in the year I was convinced that he was a major reason for the Mariners downfall. Spiezio had to be considered an upgrade over Cirillo for the M's. Cirillio was absolutely brutal there. That Jolbert Cabrera isn't bad. Wonder if he would settle into their 3B slot or 2B if Boone is gone. Sorry to turn this into to Mariner thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I'm going to go out on a limb here and say by July 31st, Jason Kendall, one of: Eddie Guardado, Shiggy, Brian Meadows, Scott Sullivan, and a lefty bat (Matt Stairs) will all be in White Sox unis. I really think Kenny is going to go to the extreme this year and improve this team dramatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Steve from Mariners Wheelhouse here, wandering over from the Seattle Mariners Top MLB Forum. Interesting discussion. No one here has mentioned that Guardado has a no-trade clause. A deal with Chicago would need to get over that hurdle. Guardado has also openly expressed his desire to return to Minnesota. He said earlier in the season that leaving Minnesota was a mistake. Point is that one of the other teams the Sox may be competing against is Minnesota. And Minnesota has lots of what the Mariners need. Guardado has been far and away the best pitcher in the Mariners bullpen, and he is death to left-handed hitters. following are Avg OBP SLG OPS against for 2004: vs lefties: .088 .111 .118 .229 !!!! vs righties: .185 .265 .304 .569 Spiezio is not reported to be injured. He started the season on the DL with a back problem. There has been no subsequent mention of any lingering issues from the injury, but his production season does provide reason to wonder. Re Crede, Reed and the Garcia trade. The story in Seattle, reported by some folks who have contacts in the Mariners FO, is that Reed was always in the deal - he was the centerpiece in the deal. The negotiations were about who the other players would be. If those stories are correct, it was not necessarily a situation of Williams refusing to include Crede. If there are additional discussions with the White Sox, I would expect Crede to be part of the talks. The Mariners don't have any truly strong options within the organization to fill that spot. The upcoming FA class looks like a good one for third basemen and the Mariners have lots of FA money available, so they are probably not going to extend themselves too far going after Crede. Thanks for that info. In regards to Crede, what was reported here was that Williams was going to demand a window to negotiate a deal with Garcia but when the Mariners decided they would take either Reed instead of Crede that the Sox pulled the trigger. It may of very well been the other way around though, who knows. I was thinking Spiezo started on the DL, then went back on it again shortly after coming off and was thinking it must of been lingering (but I dont' followt he Mariners like you do). I will say this, from the few times I've seen him this year, he is nothing like the player I watched in Anaheim for a few years, although I think he can easily regain that form. Cali...I'm pretty sure he was a Sox fan, but not positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Oh my God, who are you and what are you doing here? Are you kiddin' me? I'm serious! What's the matter with you? Please. you forgot a few: I'm tellin ya what are you talking about Easy... lightning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Here's Guardado's comment in fuller context: Here the link to the story from the Everett Herald Well thats a little different then him saying he wishes he was in Minnesota. To me he regrets the fact that he signed for a team that is in last place and is dealing its better players (no offense although the trades are for the good for the Mariner organization). I think Eddie just wants to play with a winner. I'm sure his heart is in Minnesota at least partially though. They were the first team to really give him a shot and the Twins were always a pretty close knit group. However, I don't see the Twins making any big time deals at the deadline. Most reports are that they will stick with their current team, but their GM Ryan has usually made a deal or two at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I really think Kenny is going to go to the extreme this year and improve this team dramatically. Extreme?? Extreme would be: 1. Randy Johnson (f*** RJ and his pro-Arizona attitude) 2. Steve Finley/J.D. Drew (f*** Atlanta for not falling out of contention) Kenny is playing it relatively safe. I happen to think that Sox' biggest preoccupations should be: 1. Who do we trot out there against Pedro/Brown - in Fenway/Yankee stadium? 2. How do we beat a very good RHP if we could never do it before? If neither is addressed, WHO CARES if you have Guardado or not! Didn't help the Twins last year against the Yankees, did he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Brown is hurt, and isn't doing that great. His ERA is about 4.15, which is higher than both Buehrle and Garcia, and Mussina is doing even worse. In case you haven't noticed, Pedro has been very inconsistent and has no stamina. Schilling is pitching great, but he has an ankle problem that may slow him down or put him on the DL later. The rest of their rotation is god awful. The only team that We should really worry about rotationwise is the A's. Hudson and Mulder are something, and their other starters aren't all bad either. But their lineup is weak and their pen isn't much better. Assuming Maggs comes back 100% to help the offense(trading him would be pretty dumb at this point), they should be fine with Garcia and Buehrle one and two, with Loaiza and Garland splitting the other starts, especially if you can shift Marte and Shingo to the 7th and 8th, which would help greatly in shortening a game. I wouldn't sell off the future for anyone short of a dominant starter, and there aren't a whole lot out there and they will cost a ton. By the way, Ortiz does not qualify as a dominant starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1969Vette Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Top MLB Forums I think both of our teams made out well on our last trade, so I would not mind trading with you again. So Ill try to answer a few of your questions... For prospects? yes like alot of you have said, this season has been a major disappointment for us, and we are cutting costs for this year so we can garuntee we have enough money to make a big slash in the FA market this coming offseason. Guardado for who? I dont know what prospects you have, so I dont know for who. I would say it would have to be a pretty decent starting pitching prospect. We have been famous for awhile now for being rich in pitching, but so far this year they have been a bust. Meche is not playing the way he can and should. Nageotte has had a few good starts, but more bad starts. They are both now back in AAA for the Tacoma Rainiers. Blackley has been called up and got his first win, but it wasn't too good of an outing, i guess you dont really count it because it was his debut, so this next start should tell a better story. We were counting on these 3 guys, plus others, to be the future of our organization. Our manager has stated he is going to us our farm system for pitching and our money for bats. If we can get 1 more good pitching prospect, I think we'll have a deal for Guardado. We are not loaded with bats, but we do have a few... Reed obviously, Bucky Jacobsen, Leone, AJ... and thats about it, but like I said, we are going to (hopefully) use our money for bats, so we dont need any more batting prospects. Bucky is our DH of the future and Reed is our CF or LF of the future, depending on wether we can Beltran, Griffey (who would play LF or DH), Ordonez, etc. Seattle already showed in the Garcia trade that they aren't going to be had. This is true, they even surprised us with the deal. We all used to hate them, but its beginning to change, and will if they start doing as they promise. For example FA this winter... now we just hate our manager and wish we still had Lou. I highly doubt it will be Cotts, Seattle doesn't want pitching, they've got a TON of it in the minors. They're stacked, I think they're only interested in position players Like I said above, I personally think we are done with position players, thats where we are going to use our money, and we already think we have the young postion players we need and that we can fill in the rest with big proven MLB bats. Magglio going to Atlanta, we would get Andruw Jones and Ortiz, and Seattle would get prospects from both the Sox and Atlanta haha I would do this, we are trading nothing and getting prospects from 2 teams? lol Spiezo in return (although I think he's hurt) he is not hurt, he was hurt, now hes back, he is a disappointment for us like 90% of the Ms... we have Ibanez making his comback right now, he has made 3 starts in AAA and may be up to face you guys, so hopefully we wont embarass ourselves too much against Garcia. Hasegawa... and... I think both relievers would make sense for the White Sox though (Hasagewa or Eddie). Hasagawa has been bad this season, but check out his stats for last season, he was amazing... maybe he can turn it around for you guys... I think you need a proven guy like Guardado in a playoff run though. there's replies to some questions and qoutes from the first two pages... i see another Ms fan has answered a few including his Twins relationship and his no-trade claus... It would be hard to trade him to a team (you) in the same division... unless we could convince him by saying, at least you will SEE(play against) your old team more than you would here in seattle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1969Vette Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 That Jolbert Cabrera isn't bad. Wonder if he would settle into their 3B slot or 2B if Boone is gone. yes, he is good... compared to the rest of our offense, i personally like him, he is exceeding expectations, but I think we may need to get his brother Orlando to keep him, and Orlando SUCKS, so I seriously hope we do not get him. I would love to take him over Boone right now, salary being the main reason. I think Eddie just wants to play with a winner. I think dasox24 sumed up this answer nicely a bit earlier... I'm sure if Seattle was playing at all like they have in the last couple of years, Guardado wouldn't have been complaining. ok, looks like that's it, so Im going to head back to the Ms boards, hope Ive been somewhat of a help, if you have any questions, post em and I may check back later and remember, we're fans just like you, so cheer for us before you destroy us this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 That Jolbert Cabrera isn't bad. Wonder if he would settle into their 3B slot or 2B if Boone is gone. yes, he is good... compared to the rest of our offense, i personally like him, he is exceeding expectations, but I think we may need to get his brother Orlando to keep him, and Orlando SUCKS, so I seriously hope we do not get him. I think Eddie just wants to play with a winner. I think dasox24 sumed up this answer nicely a bit earlier... I'm sure if Seattle was playing at all like they have in the last couple of years, Guardado wouldn't have been complaining. ok, looks like that's it, so Im going to head back to the Ms boards, hope Ive been somewhat of a help, if you have any questions, post em and I may check back later and remember, we're fans just like you, so cheer for us before you destroy us this weekend Orlando is better than Jolbert. There is a reason Jolbert has moved around the league. Why would you need Orlando too? Aurillia is already there. What you need to get rid of is Edgar and Olerud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 That Jolbert Cabrera isn't bad. Wonder if he would settle into their 3B slot or 2B if Boone is gone. yes, he is good... compared to the rest of our offense, i personally like him, he is exceeding expectations, but I think we may need to get his brother Orlando to keep him, and Orlando SUCKS, so I seriously hope we do not get him. I would love to take him over Boone right now, salary being the main reason. I think Eddie just wants to play with a winner. I think dasox24 sumed up this answer nicely a bit earlier... I'm sure if Seattle was playing at all like they have in the last couple of years, Guardado wouldn't have been complaining. ok, looks like that's it, so Im going to head back to the Ms boards, hope Ive been somewhat of a help, if you have any questions, post em and I may check back later and remember, we're fans just like you, so cheer for us before you destroy us this weekend Jolbie is a solid player Vette. I watched him play quite a few games for the Dodgers last year and my dad (Huge Dodger fan) was furious when he was let go at the end of spring. Obviously Bavasi knew damn well that he was a quality player from his time in the Dodgers org and snatched him right up. I also want to say, you guys are some top notch fans. The discussion has all been baseball and I've been left very impressed with the fans on your site, the fans that have come here, and just the overall great baseball talk that has gone on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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