baggio202 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 sorry guys...just cant help myself..this guys stupidity and selfishness just drives me crazy...so instead of bashing just consider this therapy for me two guys walk in front of him in a 2 run game and what does carlos do???...swing at the first pitch...and i know the defense already...the pitcher was awesome....that was gonna be the best pitch carlos saw...but i gaurentee that carlos wasnt thinking zone him in - reel him in...he was up there like he always is with the bases loaded doing what he always does...starting his swing in indiana and finishing in wisconsin...expanded his strike zone to pretty much anything in the park.. i dont know...he has him sucessful moments..i cant deny him that...but the watching his homer at home plate (btw - should anyone having only 8 homers halfway through the season ever even think about posing???)...complete lack of situational hitting or even trying to attempt it..cant bunt..weak in the field.. his fans can rip me all they want..but i really believe that his type of play is so symptimatic of why this team underachieves year in and year out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 sorry guys...just cant help myself..this guys stupidity and selfishness just drives me crazy...so instead of bashing just consider this therapy for me two guys walk in front of him in a 2 run game and what does carlos do???...swing at the first pitch...and i know the defense already...the pitcher was awesome....that was gonna be the best pitch carlos saw...but i gaurentee that carlos wasnt thinking zone him in - reel him in...he was up there like he always is with the bases loaded doing what he always does...starting his swing in indiana and finishing in wisconsin...expanded his strike zone to pretty much anything in the park.. i dont know...he has him sucessful moments..i cant deny him that...but the watching his homer at home plate (btw - should anyone having only 8 homers halfway through the season ever even think about posing???)...complete lack of situational hitting or even trying to attempt it..cant bunt..weak in the field.. his fans can rip me all they want..but i really believe that his type of play is so symptimatic of why this team underachieves year in and year out Assinine comment - Carlos hit the ball right on the nose and hit a rocket into right center. Unfortunately he hit it right at Anderson. Probably one of the best hit balls of the night and you're complaining! Standing there waiting for a walk is dumb. This team can't score more than 2 runs a game in the last 5 games. That's why they lost again tonight - not Carlos' fly out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 Assinine comment - Carlos hit the ball right on the nose and hit a rocket into right center. Unfortunately he hit it right at Anderson. Probably one of the best hit balls of the night and you're complaining! Standing there waiting for a walk is dumb. This team can't score more than 2 runs a game in the last 5 games. That's why they lost again tonight - not Carlos' fly out. so you think its a good thing to let a pitcher off the hook with one pitch after he just walked the bases loaded???... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 so you think its a good thing to let a pitcher off the hook with one pitch after he just walked the bases loaded???... He didn't let anybody off the hook - he crushed that ball. That's part of the game. He got a good pitch to hit and hit it hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 so you think its a good thing to let a pitcher off the hook with one pitch after he just walked the bases loaded???... It was a fastball smack dab, center cut, right in the heart of the plate; probably the best pitch Carlos was going to see in the AB. I have no problem with it; had he hit it a little bit more to the right, it's a gapper and we might be talking about a White Sox Winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Assinine comment - Carlos hit the ball right on the nose and hit a rocket into right center. Unfortunately he hit it right at Anderson. Probably one of the best hit balls of the night and you're complaining! Standing there waiting for a walk is dumb. This team can't score more than 2 runs a game in the last 5 games. That's why they lost again tonight - not Carlos' fly out. Standing, waiting for a walk IS dumb. That's what the kid in little league who hit second to last did. Being a patient hitter is not about looking for a walk. It is about waiting for your pitch to hit very hard somewhere, and if it doesn't come, then you watch it. You look for a pitch to drive or atleast hit very hard for a base hit. I can't comment on Carlos's hit...I did not watch the game. However, he has proven in the past to be an unpatient hitter, swinging at the first pitch. The fact is that KRod had walked a couple hitters ahead of him and was struggling with his control. Swinging at the first pitch is not always a good thing to do. I'm not sure what to think of Carlos. Sometimes he looks like he could be a stud power hitter. Sometimes he looks like he could be a good contact hitter. Sometimes he looks like a dumbass. I don't know what to think of him. And I think $9 mill next year for not knowing what to think of him is too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 sorry guys...just cant help myself..this guys stupidity and selfishness just drives me crazy...so instead of bashing just consider this therapy for me two guys walk in front of him in a 2 run game and what does carlos do???...swing at the first pitch...and i know the defense already...the pitcher was awesome....that was gonna be the best pitch carlos saw...but i gaurentee that carlos wasnt thinking zone him in - reel him in...he was up there like he always is with the bases loaded doing what he always does...starting his swing in indiana and finishing in wisconsin...expanded his strike zone to pretty much anything in the park.. i dont know...he has him sucessful moments..i cant deny him that...but the watching his homer at home plate (btw - should anyone having only 8 homers halfway through the season ever even think about posing???)...complete lack of situational hitting or even trying to attempt it..cant bunt..weak in the field.. his fans can rip me all they want..but i really believe that his type of play is so symptimatic of why this team underachieves year in and year out dude, he hit the ball on a line in a gap, their CF'er got a good jump on it... if calros was .010 seconds later on that pitch, he hits it in the gap for a double and scores 3 runs he swung on that pitch because he was looking for a fastball to hit hard on a line he got it and did his job stop cryin here, go tell your mom man, im sure shes used to it by now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Carlos has swung first pitch at practically every Bases loaded AB this season... He has not learned... He never will... Baggio is right... Carlos learned nothing from watching the two batters in front of him... Carlos learned nothing from watching Frank trot out of the batters box watching a "homerun" only to nearly be thrown out at second... Carlos learned nothing by watching Todd walker win a baseball game without taking the bat off of his shoulder... The theme is Carlos won't learn.. He never will... He's not a smart baseball player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 That was probably going to be the best pitch Carlos would have seen in that at-bat considering how K-Rod was mostly 2-0 on the other hitters. Carlos did do the right thing. Had a fastball, took a cut and hit it hard. Unfortunitly, he didnt split the gap. If K-Rod would have thrown his curve or slider, C-Lee would have missed it and would have been thinking too much and most likely would have strukeout. You have to beat him on his fastball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 He didn't let anybody off the hook - he crushed that ball. That's part of the game. He got a good pitch to hit and hit it hard. im reminded of frank thomas last year..a situation that happened against oakland with val on 2nd and no one out in the 8th of a one run game...it set off a huge debate...thomas off chad bradford swung at the first pitch and hit a rocket to 3rd.. it was snagged by chavez and val ended up be stranded and we lost 3 to 2...i made pretty much the same comment about frank , who is my favorite player..got ripped but still believe im right on that one too.. im a big proponent of situational hitting..and part of that is making a pitcher who walks the bases loaded really work to get out of it..that to me means in this situation that you try and work the count in your favor...putting the pressure on the pitcher , who obviously is struggling with his control to find it in a hurry... imo , when you add all these little things up throughout the season...you find out why the sox, who for the last 2 years have been on paper a much better team than the twins (twins players even admit this) end up losing the division by a few games... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Carlos has swung first pitch at practically every Bases loaded AB this season... He has not learned... He never will... Baggio is right... Carlos learned nothing from watching the two batters in front of him... Carlos learned nothing from watching Frank trot out of the batters box watching a "homerun" only to nearly be thrown out at second... Carlos learned nothing by watching Todd walker win a baseball game without taking the bat off of his shoulder... The theme is Carlos won't learn.. He never will... He's not a smart baseball player. look at the post above mine by chisoxfan maybe you'll never learn, not carlos he did his job today and it didnt turn out in our favor ill be happy to read any other things u have to say thou, maybe you can teach me a thing or two and learn something in the process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Carlos has swung first pitch at practically every Bases loaded AB this season... He has not learned... He never will... Baggio is right... Carlos learned nothing from watching the two batters in front of him... Carlos learned nothing from watching Frank trot out of the batters box watching a "homerun" only to nearly be thrown out at second... Carlos learned nothing by watching Todd walker win a baseball game without taking the bat off of his shoulder... The theme is Carlos won't learn.. He never will... He's not a smart baseball player. This is really dumb. Nobody who knows anything about baseball can fault Carlos on that at bat. The Sox were down 2 runs in the 8th with 2 outs. Even if he walks they're still down a run with 2 outs. This is nothing like the Cubs game where the winning run is at 3rd with a bad to mediocre reliever on the mound. I don't care what the count is - he got a good pitch to hit and hit it hard for what could have been a game winning hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Carlos knew Rodriguez was coming at him with a fastball. Got one close to center cut. The guy has one of the nastiest sliders around (see video of 2002 World Series). He hit the ball hard -- but out. I got NO problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Carlos Lee is 1 for 9 with the bases loaded this season... He has 1 hit and 1 sac fly in that situation.... He has NO walks... I can't pull up the stats for pitches per bases loaded AB, but Carlos thinks every first pitch with the bases loaded is his pitch. It's not just this one AB... He's terrible with the bases loaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 Carlos has swung first pitch at practically every Bases loaded AB this season... He has not learned... He never will... Baggio is right... Carlos learned nothing from watching the two batters in front of him... Carlos learned nothing from watching Frank trot out of the batters box watching a "homerun" only to nearly be thrown out at second... Carlos learned nothing by watching Todd walker win a baseball game without taking the bat off of his shoulder... The theme is Carlos won't learn.. He never will... He's not a smart baseball player. thanks cheat..you put it better than i did.. carlos got a good pitch to hit..hit it hard..maybe some bad luck and got out...he could have even cleared the bases but thats not my point...if rodiguez threw a pitch in the dirt carlos was swinging...if he through it at the knees 3 inches off the plate , carlos was swinging...basically carlos' mindset seems to be (from this and similar situations ive seen from him throughout the years - im not claiming to be a mindreader ) if i got a chance for some rbbies and the pitch is anwhere in the park im swinging.. maybe the next time carlos comes up with the bases juiced or 2 men in scoring position and he swings at the first pitch and its a pitcher's pitch we can revisit the issue... everyone keeps asking why this team constantly underachieves..well ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Put yourself in Carlos' shoes here. The pitcher had just walked two previous hittets to load the bases. If I'm up in that spot, I'm thinking that the pitcher cannot afford to walk me. I'm also thinking the pitcher will try and get ahead of me. The pitcher's back is against the wall. So, if I get a good first pitch fastball in my zone, I'm hitting it. Period. Stupid? Selfish? Ok, if you say so. But, I'm up there looking for a pitch to drive and tie the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 Put yourself in Carlos' shoes here. The pitcher had just walked two previous hittets to load the bases. If I'm up in that spot, I'm thinking that the pitcher cannot afford to walk me. I'm also thinking the pitcher will try and get ahead of me. The pitcher's back is against the wall. So, if I get a good first pitch fastball in my zone, I'm hitting it. Period. Stupid? Selfish? Ok, if you say so. But, I'm up there looking for a pitch to drive and tie the game. i understand what you are saying..but how many times this year has carlos been in similiar situations and swung at the first pitch and it wasnt center cut???...if carlos had a better track record at situational hitting and doing the little things it takes to win i would agree with you..but im watching the game i just knew carlos was gonna be cutting and hacking from the first pitch.. you can say anahiem's scouting in that situation was horrible because the first thing that should have been on rodriguez mind was a fastball about 6 inches off the plate..strike one..or maybe that was his thought pattern and he missed over the plate and got lucky... but any team that scouts us has to know you can get carlos out in RBI situations w/o throwing a strike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 thanks cheat..you put it better than i did.. carlos got a good pitch to hit..hit it hard..maybe some bad luck and got out...he could have even cleared the bases but thats not my point...if rodiguez threw a pitch in the dirt carlos was swinging...if he through it at the knees 3 inches off the plate , carlos was swinging...basically carlos' mindset seems to be (from this and similar situations ive seen from him throughout the years - im not claiming to be a mindreader ) if i got a chance for some rbbies and the pitch is anwhere in the park im swinging.. maybe the next time carlos comes up with the bases juiced or 2 men in scoring position and he swings at the first pitch and its a pitcher's pitch we can revisit the issue... everyone keeps asking why this team constantly underachieves..well ??? Let me ask you a question. You're suggestion is that Carlos should take the first pitch no matter what. In this case, he would have taken the first pitch for a perfect fastball strike right down the middle of the plate down 2 runs with 2 outs and the bases loaded in the 8th. Now he's 0 and 1. Do you think he's going to see another pitch like that? No way. Why would the pitcher throw him another. The worst case scenario is he walks him and is still leading by a run with 2 outs in the 8th. It's much more likely that Lee is now forced to swing at a pitcher's pitch because he's behind in the count. If the game was tied, I'd agree with you. If it was alot earlier in the game, I'd agree. If Carlos was a weak hitting shortstop, I'd agree. But not with a power hitter, down 2 runs with 2 out in the 8th! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I think it's time to accept this is the type of ball player Carlos is. He's going to take his hacks and we have to live with it. As far as the situation, Carlos had better of been hacking away first pitch. K-Rod didn't want to get behind a home run threat, and since he wasn't getting his curve ball over, he's obviously going to throw a fastball. Bravo to Carlos for sitting on it and lacing it. No need to bash Carlos in this instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 Let me ask you a question. You're suggestion is that Carlos should take the first pitch no matter what. In this case, he would have taken the first pitch for a perfect fastball strike right down the middle of the plate down 2 runs with 2 outs and the bases loaded in the 8th. Now he's 0 and 1. Do you think he's going to see another pitch like that? No way. Why would the pitcher throw him another. The worst case scenario is he walks him and is still leading by a run with 2 outs in the 8th. It's much more likely that Lee is now forced to swing at a pitcher's pitch because he's behind in the count. If the game was tied, I'd agree with you. If it was alot earlier in the game, I'd agree. If Carlos was a weak hitting shortstop, I'd agree. But not with a power hitter, down 2 runs with 2 out in the 8th! would carlos lee have seen that same pitch again...you say no way...now we cant say that for sure..i mean the pitcher was struggling with his control...but you are probably right...there was a good chance that was the best pitch carlos was gonna see..but thats not my point...next week when we lose a game 3-2 or something and carlos is up with runners on the corners (or bases loaded) and carlos again swings at the first pitch thats at the knees just off the corner and hits into a 6-4-3 dp...what conversation are we gonna have then??? there is a reason why carlos has in the past hit his share of grannies but also is what 1 of 9 this year with the bases juiced???...he has one idea in mind..swing for the fences...i just dont think thats a good mindset to have... carlos isnt the only guy i see this with..and it hurts out team imo..i really think that the thought processes of a lot of our hitters is a big reason why we underachieve so much... but i made my arguement now and im in the minority so ill defer to you guys...for now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 thanks cheat..you put it better than i did.. carlos got a good pitch to hit..hit it hard..maybe some bad luck and got out...he could have even cleared the bases but thats not my point...if rodiguez threw a pitch in the dirt carlos was swinging...if he through it at the knees 3 inches off the plate , carlos was swinging...basically carlos' mindset seems to be (from this and similar situations ive seen from him throughout the years - im not claiming to be a mindreader ) if i got a chance for some rbbies and the pitch is anwhere in the park im swinging.. maybe the next time carlos comes up with the bases juiced or 2 men in scoring position and he swings at the first pitch and its a pitcher's pitch we can revisit the issue... everyone keeps asking why this team constantly underachieves..well ??? This is ridiculous. I've probably been the biggest carlos basher around but he did absolutely nothing at wrong in this at bat. For you to say he was swinging at anything is absolutely nonsense. Krod is one of the nastiest pitchers around, carlos got a fast ball and absolutely hammered it but unfortunately it was at garrett anderson. I know carlos isn't always the smartest player around but he did everything right in this bat by hammering a ball to right center, he did absolutely nothing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 i dont know whos right, the anti-carlos lee vs the Halo's last night or Paulie? "You have Carlos, who does everything you are supposed to do, and hits a line drive and the guy catches it," Konerko said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 baggio, why don't you stand up at SoxFest and demand Carlos Lee's resignation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Two inches higher and he'd be the hero of the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 baggio, why don't you stand up at SoxFest and demand Carlos Lee's resignation? Oye, oye, oye, Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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