Ozzietheairedale Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 This latest fiasco with Maggs is rapidly confirming that Williams sucks as a GM. How he has let it become public knowledge that he can't sign Magglio is beyond me. Remember, he inherited a division winner from Schuler. How many new GMs get to start with a team like that? A review: Debacles: Ritchie trade, Koch trade Bad: Wells signing (I don't care if it looked good to fans, he's the GM and should know better), Colon trade, Alomar trade, Everett trade, not signing Gordon Looking bad: Uribe trade, Maggs re-signing Jury still out: Garcia trade (will only avoid being a debacle if Sox get to WS) Good deals: Loaiza, Schoenweiss, re-signing Garcia, Buehrle Maybe I've missed some deals but overall, this guy sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Ed Wade - Refuses to fire Larry Bowa Arizona GM - Traded 7 players including Lyle Overbay for Richie Sexson Bill Bavasi - Signing Scott Spiezio and Raul Ibanex wasn't the right thing to do. Signed Rich Aurilla for Carlos Guillen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighHeat45 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 More good:Cotts, Adkins, Olivo (even though he's gone) Harris are all minor leaguers he included in deals that have all made the bigs. Plus how can you forget Juan Uribe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I don't think he sucks. He is aggressive and goes after people. The Colon trade, where he only gave up Liefer, Osuna and Biddle to get an all-star caliber pitcher at the time. There is no way you can spin the Colon trade in a negative way. Rocky Biddle is terrible, Liefer is a minor leaguer who wants to play in the majors and Osuna is an average at best bullpen guy. He also got Felix Diaz for Kenny Lofton, who was leaving at the end of the year. What about Enemencio Pachecho, who he got for Sandy, who then returned to the Sox the following season. And the Wells trade was for Mike Sirotka, who was never heard from again after he pitched his ass off for us in 2000. He also knew when to get rid of Jimenez last season when it was obvious he was becoming a cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 More good:Cotts, Adkins, Olivo (even though he's gone) Harris are all minor leaguers he included in deals that have all made the bigs. Plus how can you forget Juan Uribe. I'll give you the Olivo deal for Bradford as a good pickup. Cotts and Adkins, as of right now, are nothing. My suspiscion is that neither of them will become established major leaguers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 This latest fiasco with Maggs is rapidly confirming that Williams sucks as a GM. How he has let it become public knowledge that he can't sign Magglio is beyond me. Where exactly is it stated publically that he can't sign Magglio? Where does the owner fit into this equation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 This latest fiasco with Maggs is rapidly confirming that Williams sucks as a GM. How he has let it become public knowledge that he can't sign Magglio is beyond me. Remember, he inherited a division winner from Schuler. How many new GMs get to start with a team like that? A review: Debacles: Ritchie trade, Koch trade Bad: Wells signing (I don't care if it looked good to fans, he's the GM and should know better), Colon trade, Alomar trade, Everett trade, not signing Gordon Looking bad: Uribe trade, Maggs re-signing Jury still out: Garcia trade (will only avoid being a debacle if Sox get to WS) Good deals: Loaiza, Schoenweiss, re-signing Garcia, Buehrle Maybe I've missed some deals but overall, this guy sucks. Debacles: Ritchie trade, Koch trade We also received Cotts in the trade for Koch. What has Fogg, Wells, and Lowe become? They have not done all that great since their first year there. Wells is ok, but that is it. Granted they are all better than Ritchie. KW has also admitted to making a mistake with that trade. Bad: Wells signing (I don't care if it looked good to fans, he's the GM and should know better), Colon trade, Alomar trade, Everett trade, not signing Gordon Wells was bad? Buehrle credits him with teaching him how to pitch. How is that bad? Colon trade was bad? Why? Alomar and Everett trade was bad why? Not signing Gordon actually gave us an extra draft pick that I thnk we used on Gio Gonzalez, is that correct? Plus we signed Shingo instead. I didn't mind that at all. Looking bad: Uribe trade, Maggs re-signing Uribe trade is bad? How? Without him in the first couple of months where the hell would we be? In regards to Maggs, it takes two to tango. Jury still out: Garcia trade (will only avoid being a debacle if Sox get to WS) that's hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 I don't think he sucks. He is aggressive and goes after people. The Colon trade, where he only gave up Liefer, Osuna and Biddle to get an all-star caliber pitcher at the time. There is no way you can spin the Colon trade in a negative way. Rocky Biddle is terrible, Liefer is a minor leaguer who wants to play in the majors and Osuna is an average at best bullpen guy. He also got Felix Diaz for Kenny Lofton, who was leaving at the end of the year. What about Enemencio Pachecho, who he got for Sandy, who then returned to the Sox the following season. And the Wells trade was for Mike Sirotka, who was never heard from again after he pitched his ass off for us in 2000. He also knew when to get rid of Jimenez last season when it was obvious he was becoming a cancer. Colon wasn't half the pitcher he was projected to be last year, so that deal was a bust - whoever they gave up for him. In fact, I wouldn't mind having Liefer, Biddle and Osuna right now. Felix Diaz right now is a nobody. So we'll see. Wells was a cancer who did nothing for us. He goes to the Yankees and pitches great. Knowing when to get rid of a guy you got who sucks is not a ringing endorsement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 He is jsut trying to start crap. His arguments don't make any sense at all and he is showing nothing to back them up. This quote right here says it all: In fact, I wouldn't mind having Liefer, Biddle and Osuna right now. Ozzietheairedale OUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 That's it... because Kenny can't hone in the the Ms. Cleo skills... off with his head!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Colon wasn't half the pitcher he was projected to be last year, so that deal was a bust - whoever they gave up for him. In fact, I wouldn't mind having Liefer, Biddle and Osuna right now. Felix Diaz right now is a nobody. So we'll see. Wells was a cancer who did nothing for us. He goes to the Yankees and pitches great. Knowing when to get rid of a guy you got who sucks is not a ringing endorsement. Your vision is very clouded. Tell me exactly what we would do with Biddle, Liefer and Osuna, only Osuna would even be on the team as a middle inning guy. They are all pretty much worthless. Felix Diaz is a nobody that came up BIG against the Cubs. Without him, you'd be b****ing even more about how we can't beat the Cubs. Wells was a cancer, but explain to me what Mike Sirotka has done to call this trade (player for player) a bust. When you get some good material, please post it. It would be a first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Colon wasn't half the pitcher he was projected to be last year, so that deal was a bust - whoever they gave up for him. In fact, I wouldn't mind having Liefer, Biddle and Osuna right now. either you're joking or you're a complete idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Oh Aboz.. Biddle has more saves this year than Koch in the past 2 years combined... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Oh Aboz.. Biddle has more saves this year than Koch in the past 2 years combined... On a serious note, his era this season is worse than Koch's. He lost the closer role on Montreal, the worst team in baseball. The only thing Biddle has over Koch is better facial hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 On a serious note, his era this season is worse than Koch's. He lost the closer role on Montreal, the worst team in baseball. The only thing Biddle has over Koch is better facial hair. and the name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 In fact, I wouldn't mind having Liefer, Biddle and Osuna right now. And that's why you'll never be a GM.. not even for the Northern League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Colon wasn't half the pitcher he was projected to be last year, so that deal was a bust - whoever they gave up for him. In fact, I wouldn't mind having Liefer, Biddle and Osuna right now. Felix Diaz right now is a nobody. So we'll see. Wells was a cancer who did nothing for us. He goes to the Yankees and pitches great. Knowing when to get rid of a guy you got who sucks is not a ringing endorsement. Colon was EXACTLY the pitcher the Sox expected when they got him, look at his numbers from last year in comparison with his career. Most of them are very close. If you and other ignoramuses were expecting an "Ace," then it's your own damn fault for overrating the guy. If you want Liefer and Biddle so badly, I can only hope you become the next GM of the Twins. The Sox were in need of a playoff-tested horse when they got Wells, and Wells was pretty much the best one available. It's not KW's fault that he got hurt. A cancer? Hardly, he's always been a loudmouth doofus, if he wins 17 games and the Sox go to the playoffs, nobody says s*** about him being a cancer. KW has made exactly one horrendus trade since becoming GM. That's a ratio that I'd put up aginst 95% of the other GM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 Oh Aboz.. Biddle has more saves this year than Koch in the past 2 years combined... I know you must be joking but... Bottom 10 ML Relievers (ranked by Adjusted Runs Prevented): Pitcher Team IP R ARA APR IRP BRS RRA ARP ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Biddle,R MON 34.3 35 9.48 -17.9 -2.4 -1.2 10.02 -20.0 DeJean,M BAL 34.7 27 7.05 -8.8 -3.6 2.9 8.90 -15.9 Weber,B ANA 22.3 24 10.08 -13.2 -1.4 1.3 10.98 -15.4 Jimenez,J CLE 36.3 37 9.22 -18.0 -0.2 -5.5 8.05 -13.2 Wagner,R CIN 16.7 13 7.47 -5.0 -4.4 3.0 11.66 -12.8 Colyer,S DET 24.0 19 7.32 -6.8 -1.4 3.2 9.48 -12.6 Matthews,M CIN 18.3 19 9.93 -10.5 -1.4 -1.5 10.12 -10.9 Hernandez,R PHI 32.0 26 7.55 -9.9 -3.5 -2.6 7.83 -10.9 Stewart,S CLE 13.7 14 9.28 -6.8 -4.9 -1.7 11.83 -10.7 Hernandez,A MIL 11.7 15 11.95 -9.3 -0.8 0.0 13.00 -10.7 Biddle is the worst Reliever in the major leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I know you must be joking but... Bottom 10 ML Relievers (ranked by Adjusted Runs Prevented): Pitcher Team IP R ARA APR IRP BRS RRA ARP ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Biddle,R MON 34.3 35 9.48 -17.9 -2.4 -1.2 10.02 -20.0 DeJean,M BAL 34.7 27 7.05 -8.8 -3.6 2.9 8.90 -15.9 Weber,B ANA 22.3 24 10.08 -13.2 -1.4 1.3 10.98 -15.4 Jimenez,J CLE 36.3 37 9.22 -18.0 -0.2 -5.5 8.05 -13.2 Wagner,R CIN 16.7 13 7.47 -5.0 -4.4 3.0 11.66 -12.8 Colyer,S DET 24.0 19 7.32 -6.8 -1.4 3.2 9.48 -12.6 Matthews,M CIN 18.3 19 9.93 -10.5 -1.4 -1.5 10.12 -10.9 Hernandez,R PHI 32.0 26 7.55 -9.9 -3.5 -2.6 7.83 -10.9 Stewart,S CLE 13.7 14 9.28 -6.8 -4.9 -1.7 11.83 -10.7 Hernandez,A MIL 11.7 15 11.95 -9.3 -0.8 0.0 13.00 -10.7 Biddle is the worst Reliever in the major leagues. I think the starter of this topic just crawled in a hole.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I know you must be joking but... Bottom 10 ML Relievers (ranked by Adjusted Runs Prevented): Pitcher Team IP R ARA APR IRP BRS RRA ARP ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Biddle,R MON 34.3 35 9.48 -17.9 -2.4 -1.2 10.02 -20.0 DeJean,M BAL 34.7 27 7.05 -8.8 -3.6 2.9 8.90 -15.9 Weber,B ANA 22.3 24 10.08 -13.2 -1.4 1.3 10.98 -15.4 Jimenez,J CLE 36.3 37 9.22 -18.0 -0.2 -5.5 8.05 -13.2 Wagner,R CIN 16.7 13 7.47 -5.0 -4.4 3.0 11.66 -12.8 Colyer,S DET 24.0 19 7.32 -6.8 -1.4 3.2 9.48 -12.6 Matthews,M CIN 18.3 19 9.93 -10.5 -1.4 -1.5 10.12 -10.9 Hernandez,R PHI 32.0 26 7.55 -9.9 -3.5 -2.6 7.83 -10.9 Stewart,S CLE 13.7 14 9.28 -6.8 -4.9 -1.7 11.83 -10.7 Hernandez,A MIL 11.7 15 11.95 -9.3 -0.8 0.0 13.00 -10.7 Biddle is the worst Reliever in the major leagues. Yes.. I was kidding. See this guy.. -> The Rocky of last year was fun to watch though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 either you're joking or you're a complete idiot I disagree. He could be both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goober Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I disagree. He could be both. true. true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 If you want Liefer and Biddle so badly, I can only hope you become the next GM of the Twins. That's great! On a serious note, Kenny has had his bad trades, but that's bound to happen when you take a chance. I would rather him be active than sit on his hands. The worst trade for me was when he traded for the right name, but wrong guy. That was classic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 That's great! On a serious note, Kenny has had his bad trades, but that's bound to happen when you take a chance. I would rather him be active than sit on his hands. The worst trade for me was when he traded for the right name, but wrong guy. That was classic! But he's learned from his mistakes... We now have Josh Fields and Josh Fields Somebody else will fall for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 We also received Cotts in the trade for Koch. What has Fogg, Wells, and Lowe become? They have not done all that great since their first year there. Wells is ok, but that is it. Granted they are all better than Ritchie. KW has also admitted to making a mistake with that trade. Wells was bad? Buehrle credits him with teaching him how to pitch. How is that bad? Colon trade was bad? Why? Alomar and Everett trade was bad why? Not signing Gordon actually gave us an extra draft pick that I thnk we used on Gio Gonzalez, is that correct? Plus we signed Shingo instead. I didn't mind that at all. Uribe trade is bad? How? Without him in the first couple of months where the hell would we be? In regards to Maggs, it takes two to tango. that's hilarious. Wow - certainly turned out a bunch of know nothings with this thread. Hmmm, I think Biddle's 34 saves last year might have won the Sox the division. I would keep Biddle's 34 saves last year and anything he would give them for the future for Colon's performance last year and NOTHING for every year after that. Osuna's 3.73 ERA, 50.2 IP last year would have helped too. As for Uribe, have you looked at Aaron Miles' numbers lately? Are you actually serious about comparing Gordon with draft picks this year? Has anybody looked at his numbers? Duh! Coming up with Shingo had nothing to do with losing Gordon. Dumb logic. The Alomar and Everett trades were bad because we gave up multiple prospects for nothing. As for Maggs, I agree it takes two. But KW has to keep his position a secret because it weakens his negotiating position with other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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