Randy Johnson might be available

[SuperSteve]

IMHO, we should look else where.

[ZoomSlowik]

The phrase "much less" is often used a a phrase connecting two things that haven't happened yet. For instance, if someone were to say, "The Sox are going to win the World Series," and someone responded,"We haven't made the playoffs much less won the World Series," that would mean we can't win the World Series because we haven't made it to the playoffs yet. In this case, every indication is that Arizona is not that interested in dealing Johnson, so getting all hyped up about him coming to the Sox is a little premature. I'm not really sure how you turned that into a Chicago-bashing comment.

[BrandoFan]

In this case, every indication is that Arizona is not that interested in dealing Johnson, so getting all hyped up about him coming to the Sox is a little premature.

Who's getting all hyped up?

 

I am just trying to enlighten your ass as to why Sox should pursue RJ with vigor if not outright fanatical determination.

 

Whether he is actually coming here is not an issue.

 

And I've been gunning for him since the time immemorial, so it's not as if it was sparked by Levine non-news.

[ZoomSlowik]

Brando, I'm not referring to you as much as some of these other guys. I know you desperately want Randy in a Sox jersey, and that you have made that very clear. I'm just saying it's not even close to happening yet. It's probably not any closer than it has been at any other point in the year, it just finally got mentioned by someone remotely related to the Sox. It's clear as to why the Sox should pursue him, as it is any time someone of that talent level is "available," that doesn't mean there is any realistic chance of it happening.

[BrandoFan]

It's clear as to why the Sox should pursue him

Is it though?

 

People speak of Randy Johnson in the same vein they do of Kendall, Andruw, R. Ortiz, Beltran, Guardado, etc.

 

The aformentioned players, while improvements over what the Sox currently have, fall closer to the "expensive luxury" category than the "expensive necessity" one where Unit resides.

 

Unit is one of the few starting pitchers who when healthy can single-handedly change the complexion of the short series - your Priors, Becketts, Schmidts, Pedros (prime), Shillings, Browns, etc.

 

Sox do not have the talent of either Yankees or the Red Sox, and recent miserable failures of Harris and Uribe (our 1-2 table-setters) only further reinforce that truth. Hopefully one of them can get his s*** together come playoff time.

 

So Sox need the great equalizer (like Hasek in his run with the Sabres and J.J. Guerrere with the Mighty Ducks in the 2003 playoffs, like Beckett with the Marlins last year, Mussina with the Orioles in 1997, etc) in Game 1 and 4 of ALDS to have a legit chance. I have enough confidence in Buehle and Garcia to pitch in

Game 2 and Game 3.

 

Which is not to say that Sox can't get swept out of ALDS even WITH Randy Johnson because they very well can, but IMO that's the risk you take if you're in a unique position Sox currently find themselves in. You just do.

[ZoomSlowik]

You keep trying to throw Kevin Brown into that category. He hasn't been that type of pitcher since he was a Padre, and Mussina is well past that stage. I can't really put Vasquez in that category either, considering he has never even been close to a playoff game. Schilling, Hudson, and Mulder have that ability, but Pedro seems to have fallen out of that category. I'm not even so sure about Hudson and Mulder since the A's haven't won a playoff series. I wouldn't call him a necessity, teams have won without dominant pitchers before. Livan Hernandez became a monster when the playofs started. Do you really think El Duque is that great a pitcher? Look at Anaheim in 2002. I know you can't depend on this, but you can't assume the worst either. Yes, our chances would increase a lot with him, but the Marlins were far from the best staff going into the playoffs, and no one thought Beckett was in that category at the time. The three pitchers in the NL that could make that kind of impact going into the playoffs last year were Schmidt, Prior, and Wood, and their teams fell short. Randy has had a bunch of shots in the playoffs, and he has one ring, and lost in the first round in his other attempts. I'd still love to see him, but I'm not expecting it. I'm also not throwing away any hope for a playoff win if we don't get him. You never know what will happen when everything rides on a best of 5 or best of 7 series.

[SuperSteve]

You keep trying to throw Kevin Brown into that category. He hasn't been that type of pitcher since he was a Padre, and Mussina is well past that stage. I can't really put Vasquez in that category either, considering he has never even been close to a playoff game. Schilling, Hudson, and Mulder have that ability, but Pedro seems to have fallen out of that category. I'm not even so sure about Hudson and Mulder since the A's haven't won a playoff series. I wouldn't call him a necessity, teams have won without dominant pitchers before. Livan Hernandez became a monster when the playofs started. Do you really think El Duque is that great a pitcher? Look at Anaheim in 2002. I know you can't depend on this, but you can't assume the worst either. Yes, our chances would increase a lot with him, but the Marlins were far from the best staff going into the playoffs, and no one thought Beckett was in that category at the time. The three pitchers in the NL that could make that kind of impact going into the playoffs last year were Schmidt, Prior, and Wood, and their teams fell short. Randy has had a bunch of shots in the playoffs, and he has one ring, and lost in the first round in his other attempts. I'd still love to see him, but I'm not expecting it. I'm also not throwing away any hope for a playoff win if we don't get him. You never know what will happen when everything rides on a best of 5 or best of 7 series.

What he said.......

[Xero]

Too late now, Johnson is a Yankee

 

http://v4.livegate.net/mlb1786/news/765450...son_bomber.html

 

NEW YORK (AP) – The Evil Empire strikes again. Peter Gammons reports that an all night trade negotiation with the Diamondbacks was successful.

 

After weeks of speculation the Boss has finally got his man. Again. Randy Johnson (10-6) waived his no trade clause and is moving to the east coast. The Yankees will send Enrique Wilson along with prospects Andy Phillips and Alex Graman to Arizona as well as taking on part of Wilson’s salary. Graman is considered a top young pitcher in AAA.

 

Johnson joins Mike Mussina, Javier Vazquez and Kevin Brown in a formidable Yankees rotation.

 

The trade brings up more rumors of a potential swap between Houston and Boston which would send Roger Clemens back to the team where he began his career.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Too late now, Johnson is a Yankee

 

http://v4.livegate.net/mlb1786/news/765450...son_bomber.html

 

NEW YORK (AP) – The Evil Empire strikes again. Peter Gammons reports that an all night trade negotiation with the Diamondbacks was successful.

 

After weeks of speculation the Boss has finally got his man. Again. Randy Johnson (10-6) waived his no trade clause and is moving to the east coast. The Yankees will send Enrique Wilson along with prospects Andy Phillips and Alex Graman to Arizona as well as taking on part of Wilson’s salary. Graman is considered a top young pitcher in AAA.

 

Johnson joins Mike Mussina, Javier Vazquez and Kevin Brown in a formidable Yankees rotation.

 

The trade brings up more rumors of a potential swap between Houston and Boston which would send Roger Clemens back to the team where he began his career.

WOuld you stop that! I already debunked that as a fake.

See Here

[Spiff]

WOuld you stop that! I already debunked that as a fake.

See Here

You can tell it's a fake for a couple reasons

 

1) The link is not yahoo, but it's designed like a Yahoo page.

2) The AP never quotes Peter Gammons, only ESPN does that because they're lame and want their own reporters to get credit for a general story.

3) They mention "The Boss" without first explaining who "The Boss" is.

4) Real articles don't beat around the bush so long with crap like "...is moving to the east coast". They would just say he's been traded to New York right off the bat.

5) Speculation on a Clemens deal wouldn't be in the fourth paragraph, and furthermore, that sentence is so terrible it would never make it into a wire report.

"The trade brings up more rumors of a potential swap between Houston and Boston which would send Roger Clemens back to the team where he began his career."

If it were a wire report it would say "...back to the team with which he began his career."

[dasox24]

You can tell it's a fake for a couple reasons

 

1) The link is not yahoo, but it's designed like a Yahoo page.

2) The AP never quotes Peter Gammons, only ESPN does that because they're lame and want their own reporters to get credit for a general story.

3) They mention "The Boss" without first explaining who "The Boss" is.

4) Real articles don't beat around the bush so long with crap like "...is moving to the east coast".  They would just say he's been traded to New York right off the bat.

5) Speculation on a Clemens deal wouldn't be in the fourth paragraph, and furthermore, that sentence is so terrible it would never make it into a wire report.

"The trade brings up more rumors of a potential swap between Houston and Boston which would send Roger Clemens back to the team where he began his career."

If it were a wire report it would say "...back to the team with which he began his career."

That's a damn good job of showing why it's fake! Another thing wrong with it is that when you click on the players names in the article, it doesn't go to the player's page; they're fake links too.

[WHarris1]

And to think I believed it for like 3 minutes.

[Xero]

WOuld you stop that! I already debunked that as a fake.

See Here

Yeah you said it was a f***ing fake about 2 hours after I posted it and I just got back home! I didn't know, geeze

[BrandoFan]

If Randy Johnson goes to NY, I will forever lose respect for him, the annoying lying sell-out that he would be.

 

Word to Chris Rock and his "whatever happened to the good ol' days when people around the league actually tried to, you know, beat the Yankees and stuff -- not be eager to get on their payroll?".

 

If he doesn't realize what a sweet set-up Chicago can be (his kids are out of school, so take them with for a couple fo months, Arizona ST facilities, jet rides back, etc) and how big of a hero he could be if he helps bring in the Windy City, to say nothing of the decidedly softer media than in places like NY and LA......Then at least have a decency to STAY TRUE TO YOUR WORD AND STAY WITH ARIZONA.

 

Failing that.....go to St. Luis or Atlanta and help them beat the Cubs in the divisional AND wild card races.

 

Edit: If he does win in NY, how much credit will he get on a team with a 200 Mill payroll? Where is the glory/fun in winning a gazzillionth WS title for the Evil Empire?

[BrandoFan]

The Yankees will send Enrique Wilson along with prospects Andy Phillips and Alex Graman to Arizona as well as taking on part of Wilson’s salary. Graman is considered a top young pitcher in AAA.

 

 

Is that ALL it's going to take to get Unit? f***, Sox could come up with a comparable offer in a heartbeat.

[hammerhead johnson]

You keep trying to throw Kevin Brown into that category. He hasn't been that type of pitcher since he was a Padre, and Mussina is well past that stage. I can't really put Vasquez in that category either, considering he has never even been close to a playoff game. Schilling, Hudson, and Mulder have that ability, but Pedro seems to have fallen out of that category. I'm not even so sure about Hudson and Mulder since the A's haven't won a playoff series. I wouldn't call him a necessity, teams have won without dominant pitchers before. Livan Hernandez became a monster when the playofs started. Do you really think El Duque is that great a pitcher? Look at Anaheim in 2002. I know you can't depend on this, but you can't assume the worst either. Yes, our chances would increase a lot with him, but the Marlins were far from the best staff going into the playoffs, and no one thought Beckett was in that category at the time. The three pitchers in the NL that could make that kind of impact going into the playoffs last year were Schmidt, Prior, and Wood, and their teams fell short. Randy has had a bunch of shots in the playoffs, and he has one ring, and lost in the first round in his other attempts. I'd still love to see him, but I'm not expecting it. I'm also not throwing away any hope for a playoff win if we don't get him. You never know what will happen when everything rides on a best of 5 or best of 7 series.

Defense will always prevail. In baseball, starting pitchers are your most important defensive players, similar to the goalie in hockey and soccer, the center in the NBA, and the #1 corner in the NFL (although arguments can be made for other positions in the NFL). Obviously, the better the personnel at the key defensive slots, the better the team.

 

Check your championship history there, bro.

 

You're arguing against defense here. What would Mr. Miyagi say? :headshake

 

What you are arguing, in essense, is that exceptions occur. We all know this. But in the vast majority of cases, defense prevails.

[hammerhead johnson]

You can tell it's a fake for a couple reasons

 

1) The link is not yahoo, but it's designed like a Yahoo page.

2) The AP never quotes Peter Gammons, only ESPN does that because they're lame and want their own reporters to get credit for a general story.

3) They mention "The Boss" without first explaining who "The Boss" is.

4) Real articles don't beat around the bush so long with crap like "...is moving to the east coast".  They would just say he's been traded to New York right off the bat.

5) Speculation on a Clemens deal wouldn't be in the fourth paragraph, and furthermore, that sentence is so terrible it would never make it into a wire report.

"The trade brings up more rumors of a potential swap between Houston and Boston which would send Roger Clemens back to the team where he began his career."

If it were a wire report it would say "...back to the team with which he began his career."

Wow. You ought to be an editor. Seriously. That's an eye for detail, right there. I couldn't have written a summary like this one if you gave me a week.

[BrandoFan]

Defense will always prevail.  In baseball, starting pitchers are your most important defensive players, similar to the goalie in hockey and soccer, the center in the NBA, and the #1 corner in the NFL (although arguments can be made for other positions in the NFL).  Obviously, the better the personnel at the key defensive slots, the better the team.

 

Check your championship history there, bro.

 

You're arguing against defense here.  What would Mr. Miyagi say? :headshake

 

What you are arguing, in essense, is that exceptions occur.  We all know this.  But in the vast majority of cases, defense prevails.

There were many S-metric studies done and you'd be suprised to find out that HITTING is almost as important as pitching in the regular season, contrary to the popular belief. (Dodgers found that out last year.)

 

But in the playoffs? You need big-time pitching first and foremost, and given that Loaiza has had nothing lately, the only way Sox DON'T need Randy Johnson is if Garcia and Buerhle were studs - and they're not. The former doesn't have the mental make-up and the latter - stuff. I am fine with Buerhle and Garcia pitching in Games 2 and 3 of ALDS, but someone has to take the ball in Game 1 and Game 4.

[Spiff]

Wow.  You ought to be an editor.  Seriously.  That's an eye for detail, right there.  I couldn't have written a summary like this one if you gave me a week.

Heh, well I am lookin at going into journalism, so if I get out of school alive, with a degree, maybe I will be.

[hammerhead johnson]

There were many S-metric studies done and you'd be suprised to find out that HITTING is almost as important as pitching in the regular season, contrary to the popular belief. (Dodgers found that out last year.)

 

But in the playoffs?  You need big-time pitching first and foremost, and given that Loaiza has had nothing lately, the only way Sox DON'T need Randy Johnson is if Garcia and Buerhle were studs - and they're not.    The former doesn't have the mental make-up and the latter - stuff.    I am fine with Buerhle and Garcia pitching in Games 2 and 3 of ALDS, but someone has to take the ball in Game 1 and Game 4.

No question.

 

The Dallas Mavericks, Kansas City Chiefs, and many other offensive powerhouses will NEVER win championships without defense, but they can and have led their respective leagues in victories druing the regular season.

[Dick Allen]

FWIW, Gammons just said on Sportscenter that our Sox, as Hawk likes to say, are in the Randy Johnson hunt.

[Goober]

FWIW, Gammons just said on Sportscenter that our Sox, as Hawk likes to say, are in the Randy Johnson hunt.

he must have meant the red sox

[qwerty]

FWIW, Gammons just said on Sportscenter that our Sox, as Hawk likes to say, are in the Randy Johnson hunt.

That he did and it's nice to hear.

[Dick Allen]

he must have meant the red sox

No, it was the White. He said that the Yankees and Red Sox don't have the prospects to trade to Arizona. He doubts the Big Unit is going anywhere. That means that he is a lock to end up with the Yankees or Red Sox .

[Dick Allen]

As Ozzie would say, I tell you what, if the Sox got Randy Johnson for prospects, the ticket office's decade-long vacation would be over. Interest in the White Sox in this town would be at a level no one thought possible 6 months ago.