Rowand44 Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 But how many times can you tap the well? And how many "prospects" have made it lately? Not disagreeing 100% with what you say, but you've got to grow from within, too, and I don't want to see them trade everything high level to hope to find a diamond in the rough later, that is lightning striking in a bottle type of thing... I also agree with what your saying. But last year it's not like kenny gave up any studs. In the garcia trade Olivo is the guy that will probably hurt us in the future more then any one else. Sure reed has the potential to be a very good player but their is so much outfield depth in the minors plus rowand proving to be a very solid player I don't think we're going to regret giving up reed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 the yanks has one good to real good prospect in the minors in a catcher, which arz is in need off. however, you never heard rj speak of moving to the mid-west. this news of rj willingness to waive his no-trade clause came out 2 weeks ago in the rumor sections. that was when geogie got in trouble. here is another thought that came to my mind, several yrs ago, either rj or roger mention that they have never forgave jerry r for his role in the last strike. do you think those feelings has change? we can offer prospects to both hou and arz and still have the talent pool in the lower minors. imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Bruce Levine and Chris Bowden are on espn 1000 today for moronotti and Bruce said that Kenny has called arizona but at the time he wasn't available. Bruce also said now that Randy has said he'd waive his no trade clause that he's sure Kenny will call arizona again. The problem obviously is the money rj has 8 mill owed for the rest of this year and 17 due for next year. Because of the money the yanks and bosox are obvious suitors. Now I know the yanks have basically nothing in their farm. I'm not sure about the red sox but I don't think they have a lot either, anybody know what Boston has down on the farm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Let's see. Since 2000 I'd say: Buehrle Willie Harris Joe Crede Adkins Marte Cotts Olivo Rowand Garland (?) Rauch and Diaz are showing signs of being solid starting pitchers. I mean, guys do emerge. Crede, Buehrle, Rauch, and Rowand are really the guys that came up through our system. The other 7 we got in trades. Good points. I see what you're saying - but from where I sit, these guys have the opportunity thanks to the team's successes in 2000 - if we had to trade them all away to win in 2000 (thank goodness we didn't) - they wouldn't be here. My point behind all this is you've got to be careful about that fine line between selling your future soul for the present. I keep hearing it's been 80 some years, I agree, and winning would help keep some folks here. But, there's next year, and eventually some of these youngin's need to stick around. I'd rather be an Atlanta model (go to the playoffs every year) then be an Arizona model (win one year and suck forever the rest). If you go to the playoffs every year, you ALWAYS have a chance to win, rather then catching lightning in a bottle. Trading prospects for today doesn't allow the Atlanta model to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 fla, arz are a couple of teams that made trading for vet to help today and then got themselves in trouble financially. however, you get 1 or 2 players in the tail end of their career and contract, who can help now for at least a couple of yrs. the positive results would be staggering. the attn whould sky rocket, the revenue would be coming in and the younger talent in the minors will develop to take over. however you add some smart trading and you can replenish with younger talent. you can build something special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 the yanks has one good to real good prospect in the minors in a catcher, which arz is in need off. however, you never heard rj speak of moving to the mid-west. this news of rj willingness to waive his no-trade clause came out 2 weeks ago in the rumor sections. that was when geogie got in trouble. here is another thought that came to my mind, several yrs ago, either rj or roger mention that they have never forgave jerry r for his role in the last strike. do you think those feelings has change? we can offer prospects to both hou and arz and still have the talent pool in the lower minors. imo. That was Schilling who had the beef with JR, we almost(and shoulda) signed Rocket in '97 when he was begging to come here. Instead we went with Belle and Navarro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 fla, arz are a couple of teams that made trading for vet to help today and then got themselves in trouble financially. however, you get 1 or 2 players in the tail end of their career and contract, who can help now for at least a couple of yrs. the positive results would be staggering. the attn whould sky rocket, the revenue would be coming in and the younger talent in the minors will develop to take over. however you add some smart trading and you can replenish with younger talent. you can build something special. Florida is interesting. I've heard they might try and trade Pavano or Penny to acquire a bat. I'd obviously be interested in both guys but I'm not sure if that is realistic or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 Trading prospects for today doesn't allow the Atlanta model to happen. funny you should mention that. It seems like they've done it the other way... the sort of white flag way to get and sustain where they were. they traded for Smoltz and traded away Millwood. That's helped sustain their success. A lot of their success has had to do with the relative weakness of their division over such a long period, too. I care about winning, too. As long as we don't trade away too much, I think we'll be ok. I think there's a lot of stuff in our farm system that can keep us strong. When Kenny says we have a great Scouting Department, I think he's right. You don't need to look further than most of the trades he's made. The only one where he traded away an established player that he didn't get something back was the Durham trade. All the other trades seemed to get him something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 That was Schilling who had the beef with JR, we almost(and shoulda) signed Rocket in '97 when he was begging to come here. Instead we went with Belle and Navarro. thanks for the correction, i stand corrected. you are 100% right and i was flamed for mentioning that on the other board, as i was flamed last yr for saying that the sox should trade c.lee and mags on this board. however, do you think that roger would want to come here now??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 ok... Clemens ain't goin' NOWHERE. He's in Houston because it's home. As far as RJ, they'd have to absolutely sell the soul of this franchise to land him. Worth it? Think how much y'all b****ed about Olivo leaving - and RJ's value is WAAAAAAAAAY higher then that. I just can't see it. Clemen's is happy spending time at home with the kids instead of heading to games he isn't pitching. He's coaching his son's Little League team in a coaches pitch league. One of his team mates was told that Roger pitched a few innings that morning to his son's team. His team mate replied, "how many 8 year olds did he brush back?" He's not going anywhere. He's on a contender already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Good points. I see what you're saying - but from where I sit, these guys have the opportunity thanks to the team's successes in 2000 - if we had to trade them all away to win in 2000 (thank goodness we didn't) - they wouldn't be here. My point behind all this is you've got to be careful about that fine line between selling your future soul for the present. I keep hearing it's been 80 some years, I agree, and winning would help keep some folks here. But, there's next year, and eventually some of these youngin's need to stick around. I'd rather be an Atlanta model (go to the playoffs every year) then be an Arizona model (win one year and suck forever the rest). If you go to the playoffs every year, you ALWAYS have a chance to win, rather then catching lightning in a bottle. Trading prospects for today doesn't allow the Atlanta model to happen. The Atlanta model? When has Atlanta ever been shy about trading their prospects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 however, do you think that roger would want to come here now??? You didn't ask me.. but my answer is no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 funny you should mention that. It seems like they've done it the other way... the sort of white flag way to get and sustain where they were. they traded for Smoltz and traded away Millwood. That's helped sustain their success. A lot of their success has had to do with the relative weakness of their division over such a long period, too. I care about winning, too. As long as we don't trade away too much, I think we'll be ok. I think there's a lot of stuff in our farm system that can keep us strong. When Kenny says we have a great Scouting Department, I think he's right. You don't need to look further than most of the trades he's made. The only one where he traded away an established player that he didn't get something back was the Durham trade. All the other trades seemed to get him something. you know what gets me, the sox been drafting in the middle of the round, in the first round mid teens, for something like 10+ yrs and we have done good to very good. yeah we had lousy luck with some of our 1 rounders but hey those other rounders have come thru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 yeah we had lousy luck with some of our 1 rounders but hey those other rounders have come thru. and this isn't football where you have to get great 1st rounders to have a good team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 The Atlanta model? When has Atlanta ever been shy about trading their prospects? When they first built that team in the early 90's, that's what sustained them. Granted, they sucked for so long in the 80's that they were LOADED by that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 funny you should mention that. It seems like they've done it the other way... the sort of white flag way to get and sustain where they were. they traded for Smoltz and traded away Millwood. That's helped sustain their success. A lot of their success has had to do with the relative weakness of their division over such a long period, too. I care about winning, too. As long as we don't trade away too much, I think we'll be ok. I think there's a lot of stuff in our farm system that can keep us strong. When Kenny says we have a great Scouting Department, I think he's right. You don't need to look further than most of the trades he's made. The only one where he traded away an established player that he didn't get something back was the Durham trade. All the other trades seemed to get him something. i was thinking about that in the beginning of the week, but i would tearing my hair out trying to figure what fla would be willing to accept and i realize that the price would be too steep, but would it be worth anderson and sweeny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 i was thinking about that in the beginning of the week, but i would tearing my hair out trying to figure what fla would be willing to accept and i realize that the price would be too steep, but would it be worth anderson and sweeny? fla accept for Pavano or Penny? I'd think they'd want a major league hitter, unless they're thinking of tanking the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 fla accept for Pavano or Penny? I'd think they'd want a major league hitter, unless they're thinking of tanking the season. at the same time they do not want to add a huge sa;ary to their payroll. they don't want to run into the same financial problem that they had in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 With deferred, Randy is due just under 5 Mill this year and 10 the next. Not 8 and 17. Haven't we Sox-talked about it here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 With deferred, Randy is due just under 5 Mill this year and 10 the next. Not 8 and 17. Haven't we Sox-talked about it here? You sure about that brando? That's just what Bruce said but I probably trust any one here more then Levine so your probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 With deferred, Randy is due just under 5 Mill this year and 10 the next. Not 8 and 17. Haven't we Sox-talked about it here? Whoa. Sweet! The man arrives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogs35 Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 ok first the arizona d-back owner hates steinbrener. why would he trade rj to the yankmees after steinbrener stole david wells from him in 2001. the d-back owner hates him and would help out boston,white sox,or anahiem before he helps out stienbrener. i belive the report out of ny as much as i belive that a pig can fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 ok first the arizona d-back owner hates steinbrener. why would he trade rj to the yankmees after steinbrener stole david wells from him in 2001. the d-back owner hates him and would help out boston,white sox,or anahiem before he helps out stienbrener. i belive the report out of ny as much as i belive that a pig can fly Not sure why the report out NY would be false, it sure didn't come off as sounding like RJ to the Yanks was a lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogs35 Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Not sure why the report out NY would be false, it sure didn't come off as sounding like RJ to the Yanks was a lock. half the stuff you read out of ny is false. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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