As exciting as Takatsu's entrance is...

[upnorthsox]

You know I have to admit, I didn't put much thought into it.  But I like your stereotypes so much more.....

 

That Dirty Harry scene is classic!!!!

Esp. if your nickname was The Enforcer(which would be a cool nickname for a closer).

 

LOL, actually that's a worthy thread. What clip should go with what player's montege.

 

And I could start it out with an easy one:

 

Without a doubt, Slim Pickens riding the A Bomb in Dr Strangelove would be an absolute must for Billy Koch's montege.

 

[Kid Gleason]

I know all of the things I want to say, but it is so dang hard to truely make a point here on a board.

 

The double standard comes into play with the US. Your pointing to stuff that you are proud of though, and that isn't really offensive. In Japan right now there is a new Godzilla film being made. It has gained some controversy already due to the scene with the Americans in it. I am not too sure what the scene has with it, but it is a stereotypical American with vulgar language and other things going on. Americans are offended by it.

 

The gong is an Asian instrument, yes, but for years has been used in an offensive way.

 

Godzilla is a cultural icon in Japan. In the US he is a cheesy silly creation. Shingo will be fine with seeing Godzilla being on the screen, but might not fully understand how mocked he is in the US. In most of the eyes of the US we see Godzilla films as those funny Japanese films with the bad FX and silly dubbing. The dubbing though is a fault of the US distributor who places the poor dubbing, and the FX are servicable in the Japanese ways of they work in the context of the film. They are accepted for what they are. And in all reality, in their full scope, and seen as they are meant to be seen, they are amazing visual accomplishments. Yes, I own every Godzilla film, and yes most are in their original language, and yes I was at the US showing of the newest one last Saturday night.

 

To go along with the Asians in the stereotypical role, look into how many times we have Chinese playing the parts of Japanese, Japanese playing the parts of Koreans, and so on and so on. Heck man, they all look alike, so just put any of them into any role.

 

All I was saying in the beginning is that the gong was a part of a stereotype that has been used for years. Shingo is not an idiot, I will go along with. But he and his wife might not fully understand what it might be implying. Yes, he is being accepted and loved by this city right now, and yes I am thrilled to see it. Especially since his signing was met with most of us fans questioning the move. But he has proven to be a great asset.

 

Jackie Chan is a box office king around the world, but he still struggles with the US. He is as close as we have come to an Asian star in our country since Bruce Lee.

 

Bith Jackie and Bruce, along with Bruce's son Brandon (who had very little in the ways of Asian traights facially), all spoke of the unbelievable racial lines drawn against Asians.

 

As for going back to my stating how Shingo might not be familar with the past in the US. In Japan, you can go into restaurants with a Nazi theme. The band Syndrome used to wear Nazi outfits onstage, complete with Swastikas. The director of the film Men Behind The Sun did a showing in Japan. The film explores the atrocities that Japan commited during WWII. The college students sat in shock watching the film. After the film, the director broke down in tears as student after student approached him asking about the film, as none of them knew anything about the things that happened. The recent Godzilla film Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidorah: All Monsters Attack deals with the issue of the Japanese public ignoring it's past.

 

If Japan has chosen to ignore it's own history, how can we figure that they are all familiar with the steretypes and the ways of signifying the steretypes that have been around for years in this country. It might be O.K. with Shingo, but if it wasn't his idea (and if it was his sole idea, I retract any objections I have to it), then somebody owed it to him to NOT add that gong in there. It was a move done out of a "He's Asian, don't they need gong to signal their arrival"?

 

Seriously, this is all blown way out of proportion, but if you can't acknowledge that there is a racial stereotype being shown here, then you need to open your eyes a bit. My buddy, as un-PC as they come, was even shocked to find out about the gong.

 

You want a better comparison, how about we play "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" everytime we have an African American walk into the game? It is a song that was used for years as a racial steretype.

 

A guitar solo can also go with any country that has rock music.

 

Oh, and I am not typing this with an iron fist and getting all hot blooded. And this is pretty much were I end. We know where I stand, and I can't spell it out any more clear.

 

Thanks, the soap box is now open.

[upnorthsox]

. Shingo will be fine with seeing Godzilla being on the screen, but might not fully understand how mocked he is in the US. In most of the eyes of the US we see Godzilla films as those funny Japanese films with the bad FX and silly dubbing.

 

No, that would be "Hercules Conquers New York", but then of course that was such a mockery that we made Arnold govenor of California.

 

Come to think of it, there you go, Shingo For Senator!!!!

[knightni]

I think they should play music from Deliverance whenever Koch comes out of the Florida bullpen.

[Controlled Chaos]

God Help Us!!!!

 

[upnorthsox]

Btw:

 

. In most of the eyes of the US we see Godzilla films as those funny Japanese films with the bad FX and silly dubbing.

 

Talk about being stereotypical, do you really think all Americans think alike?

 

[Kid Gleason]

Btw:

 

 

 

Talk about being stereotypical, do you really think all Americans think alike?

 

   

No, which is why I said "most". And yes, "most" do.

[upnorthsox]

No, which is why I said "most". And yes, "most" do.

Nice stereotype, I sure am offended.

[Kid Gleason]

Hey, I offend myself everyday.

 

This topic will never fall to the bottom of the pile with these little posts though. What say we kill it???

[Goober]

This topic will never fall to the bottom of the pile with these little posts though. What say we kill it???

never

[ChiSox_Sonix]

To me, it saddens me to read this thread and see how far asians as well as asian-americans (yes, they ARE different) have to go in this society.

 

I'm sorry, but Asians do take a lot of stereotypical crap from american society.  All one has to do is take a look at television and realize that asians are hardly portrayed in any type of role on there.  Not only that, but if they do have a role it is in some sort of zen mode, a martial arts mode, or they are a doctor or engineer of some sort.

 

How about those credit card commercials that portray an asian couple speaking in their own language about a customer in their store?  Of course, because asians are sneaky.

 

Just take a look at Jay Leno and his monologue... I have seen many times where he cracks a joke about how asian people love to eat dog.  Why is that funny?  Because it's wrong?  There's nothing wrong with eating dog.  What, just because we have them as pets here?  In some cultures the cow or pig is seen as a type of diety, yet we have no problem eating them here in our culture.  Is it wrong for us to eat beef or pork?

 

At least black people have a voice in this country.  Asian people as a whole can't even get heard for one sentence unless it helps perpetuate common stereotypes.

:headshake

[knightni]

Something should only sadden you if it causes death or severe physical injury to someone.

 

I doubt the world will end because people aren't PC 24/7.

[Goober]

Shingo will be fine with seeing Godzilla being on the screen, but might not fully understand how mocked he is in the US.

As I said before, they don't just show the Godzilla clip for Shingo. They showed it for Timo and Willie too.

[Goober]

I doubt the world will end because people aren't PC 24/7.

It might! Godzilla could come and destroy us all!

[Steff]

You guys are so crazy..

[quade36]

I had no clue this thread would reach 115 posts. wow!!!!!

 

[Gene Honda Civic]

tastes like chicken.

[Goober]

tastes like chicken.

who, Godzilla?

[FlaSoxxJim]

hmm...how do I put this politically correct......The political correct crowd can kiss my ass.  . 

 

A gong??  A f***in gong?? It is a japanese musical instrument.  Shingo is Japanese.

Forget being politically correct... How about just being CORRECT?!

 

A gong is NOT Japanese. It's origins are in Bronze Age China, Indochina, and Indonesia. 2,500 year old examples have been found in nortehrn Viet Nam. The instrument has little to do with Japan. But it is an easy Asian stereotype that we can all get as Idiot Americans. Hear a gong... see a guy on the mound... 'Oh I get it, he's Asian!! far from taking offense at it, I value it as the kind of Pavlovian operant conditioning the average American needs to 'get the joke.'

 

There are lots of great AUTHENTIC Japanese instruments that can be used if we were interested in getting it right, actually respecting a heritage rather than lumping the Asians into one cartoony, convenient pile. Taiko, odaiko (drums), koto, shamisen (zuther, lute), biwi (flute)… these are just the endemic Japanese instruments I’m familiar with, and there are lots more. None of them are as funny as the gong though, and we wouldn’t 'get the joke'…

 

No, I’m not holding my breath for political correctness (let alone the real issue here, ethnic respect), because we as a nation are not even concerned with correctness of any kind in general.

 

For the record, I don’t care about the Shingo gong. It’s stupid and funny, he doesn’t mind, it IS THE SAME as "Jose Jose Jose Jose…" (on multiple levels, i.e., let’s sing a Mexican song for the Puerto Rican guy – because that’s how witty we are). I’m not losing sleep over it. There are more important things to fightabout.

 

And also for the record, If Nancy slipped in "Turning Japanese" during a Shingo inning I’d probably die laughing. That’s a great (and totally inappropriate) suggestion!

[Kid Gleason]

Forget being politically correct... How about just being CORRECT?!

 

A gong is NOT Japanese.  It's origins are in Bronze Age China, Indochina, and Indonesia.  2,500 year old examples have been found in nortehrn Viet Nam.  The instrument has little to do with Japan.  But it is an easy Asian stereotype that we can all get as Idiot Americans.  Hear a gong... see a guy on the mound... 'Oh I get it, he's Asian!!  far from taking offense at it, I value it as the kind of Pavlovian operant conditioning the average American needs to 'get the joke.'

 

There are lots of great AUTHENTIC Japanese instruments that can be used if we were interested in getting it right, actually respecting a heritage rather than lumping the Asians into one cartoony, convenient pile.  Taiko, odaiko (drums), koto, shamisen (zuther, lute), biwi (flute)… these are just the endemic Japanese instruments I’m familiar with, and there are lots more.  None of them are as funny as the gong though, and we wouldn’t 'get the joke'…

 

No, I’m not holding my breath for political correctness (let alone the real issue here, ethnic respect), because we as a nation are not even concerned with correctness of any kind in general.

 

For the record, I don’t care about the Shingo gong.  It’s stupid and funny, he doesn’t mind, it IS THE SAME as "Jose Jose Jose Jose…" (on multiple levels, i.e., let’s sing a Mexican song for the Puerto Rican guy – because that’s how witty we are).  I’m not losing sleep over it.  There are more important things to fightabout.

 

And also for the record, If Nancy slipped in "Turning Japanese" during a Shingo inning I’d probably die laughing.  That’s a great (and totally inappropriate) suggestion!

 

That was a fine post!!! I'm buying you a beer man! I should send you a Bear Republic Black Stout!!! Just had it over the weekend, and if you have not had one, you need one!

[southsideirish]

Forget being politically correct... How about just being CORRECT?!

 

A gong is NOT Japanese.  It's origins are in Bronze Age China, Indochina, and Indonesia.  2,500 year old examples have been found in nortehrn Viet Nam.  The instrument has little to do with Japan.  But it is an easy Asian stereotype that we can all get as Idiot Americans.  Hear a gong... see a guy on the mound... 'Oh I get it, he's Asian!!  far from taking offense at it, I value it as the kind of Pavlovian operant conditioning the average American needs to 'get the joke.'

 

There are lots of great AUTHENTIC Japanese instruments that can be used if we were interested in getting it right, actually respecting a heritage rather than lumping the Asians into one cartoony, convenient pile.  Taiko, odaiko (drums), koto, shamisen (zuther, lute), biwi (flute)… these are just the endemic Japanese instruments I’m familiar with, and there are lots more.  None of them are as funny as the gong though, and we wouldn’t 'get the joke'…

 

No, I’m not holding my breath for political correctness (let alone the real issue here, ethnic respect), because we as a nation are not even concerned with correctness of any kind in general.

 

For the record, I don’t care about the Shingo gong.  It’s stupid and funny, he doesn’t mind, it IS THE SAME as "Jose Jose Jose Jose…" (on multiple levels, i.e., let’s sing a Mexican song for the Puerto Rican guy – because that’s how witty we are).  I’m not losing sleep over it.  There are more important things to fightabout.

 

And also for the record, If Nancy slipped in "Turning Japanese" during a Shingo inning I’d probably die laughing.  That’s a great (and totally inappropriate) suggestion!

I understand that it originated in China and can be traced to Vietnam, but are you telling me it is not used in Japan? The Japanese Samuri would have signalers, whose only duties were to send messages using GONGS and drums. Just because its origins can't be traced to the Japanese does not mean it is not a part of their culture. Spaghetti noodles were traced back to China, however they are a part of the Itlalian culture.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I understand that it originated in China and can be traced to Vietnam, but are you telling me it is not used in Japan?

For the most part, in traditional Japanese music performance, that is correct.

 

Biwa, shakuhachi, koto, and shamisen are the traditional instruments of Kabuki theater, and have been since the Edo period. Pre Edo musical theater - Noh, Sarugaku, etc., also did not use gongs as traditioanl instruments.

 

In the modern world, of course, there is lots of cross-pollination. New Age "genius" Kitaro has a gong on the cover of his Silk Road album and uses it in his recordings (also uses western guitars and synthesizers, so not exactly traditional). My fave japanese girl band of all time Shonen Knife uses western instruments 0 electric guitars, trap eset drums, synths, etc., but they're hardly traditional.

 

The gong is not a traditional Japanese instruments any more than a Fender Mustang is.

[southsideirish]

For the most part, in traditional Japanese music performance, that is correct.

 

Biwa, shakuhachi, koto, and shamisen are the traditional instruments of Kabuki theater, and have been since the Edo period.  Pre Edo musical theater - Noh, Sarugaku, etc., also did not use gongs as traditioanl instruments.

 

In the modern world, of course, there is lots of cross-pollination.  New Age "genius" Kitaro has a gong on the cover of his Silk Road album and uses it in his recordings (also uses western guitars and synthesizers, so not exactly traditional).  My fave japanese girl band of all time Shonen Knife uses western instruments 0 electric guitars, trap eset drums, synths, etc., but they're hardly traditional.

 

The gong is not a traditional Japanese instruments any more than a Fender Mustang is.

I would not go as far as to say it is not traditional. It is part of their culture so I can not see how it can not fit in with Shingo coming out. Even if it is not considered traditional, does it have to be? By the way it has a lot more to do with the Japanese culture and tradition than the "Fender Mustang."

[Controlled Chaos]

Forget being politically correct... How about just being CORRECT?!

 

A gong is NOT Japanese.  It's origins are in Bronze Age China, Indochina, and Indonesia.  2,500 year old examples have been found in nortehrn Viet Nam.  The instrument has little to do with Japan.  But it is an easy Asian stereotype that we can all get as Idiot Americans.  Hear a gong... see a guy on the mound... 'Oh I get it, he's Asian!!  far from taking offense at it, I value it as the kind of Pavlovian operant conditioning the average American needs to 'get the joke.'

 

There are lots of great AUTHENTIC Japanese instruments that can be used if we were interested in getting it right, actually respecting a heritage rather than lumping the Asians into one cartoony, convenient pile.  Taiko, odaiko (drums), koto, shamisen (zuther, lute), biwi (flute)… these are just the endemic Japanese instruments I’m familiar with, and there are lots more.  None of them are as funny as the gong though, and we wouldn’t 'get the joke'…

 

No, I’m not holding my breath for political correctness (let alone the real issue here, ethnic respect), because we as a nation are not even concerned with correctness of any kind in general.

 

For the record, I don’t care about the Shingo gong.  It’s stupid and funny, he doesn’t mind, it IS THE SAME as "Jose Jose Jose Jose…" (on multiple levels, i.e., let’s sing a Mexican song for the Puerto Rican guy – because that’s how witty we are).  I’m not losing sleep over it.  There are more important things to fightabout.

 

And also for the record, If Nancy slipped in "Turning Japanese" during a Shingo inning I’d probably die laughing.  That’s a great (and totally inappropriate) suggestion!

I would say that a "Japanese Gong" has plenty to do with Japan. We are not all idiot Americans. Speak for yourself. A gong may have orginanted with Chinese, but it was adapted by Japan and linking it to them is not in any way erroneous.

 

The Japanese gong was introduced during the Heian Period (794-1185). The gong was one of the main percussion instruments used during songs, dances and court music. Percussion instruments like the gong were also used in Buddhist ceremonies and processions. Even though the rhythm of court music was different than the Buddhist music. The Buddhist had percussion richness in their life and ceremonies.

 

http://www.musicinventions.org/shepherd2/kyle.htm

 

This whole thing is stupid.

 

A statement or action shouldn't be wrong or insulting to one race and perfectly acceptable if it's regarding another race just because the latter race isn't a minority. That is hypocricy plain and simple. If you think it's wrong to hear a gong....then you should think it's wrong to hear bagpipes for a scot and think it's wrong to hear godfather music for an Italian. But the fact is when you put it in that perspective...you realize it is ludicrous. That should be the end of the argument....

 

It's gettin to the point where if something is attributed to a specific race...it can't even be mentioned any more. That is how overly sensitive we are now.

[southsideirish]

 

That was a fine post!!! I'm buying you a beer man! I should send you a Bear Republic Black Stout!!! Just had it over the weekend, and if you have not had one, you need one!

To bad the both of you would be incorrect. The Gong was used by the Japanese Samuri. That is traditional enough for you? Are the Japanese Samuri not part of Japanese tradition or culture? Give me a break. I don't care what they use in their music. This has nothing to do with music. It has to do with tradition and culture and what we associate with that.