DBAHO Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 AFTER almost 30 years of arguing that a black hole swallows up everything that falls into it, astrophysicist Stephen Hawking did a scientific back-flip today. The world famous author of a Brief History of Time said he and other scientists had got it wrong - the galactic traps may in fact allow information to escape. "I've been thinking about this problem for the last 30 years, and I think I now have the answer to it," Mr Hawking told the BBC Newsnight program. "A black hole only appears to form but later opens up and releases information about what fell inside. So we can be sure of the past and predict the future," he said. The findings, which Mr Hawking is due to present at the 17th International Conference on General Relativity and Gravitation in Dublin on July 21, could help solve the "black hole information paradox", which is a crucial puzzle of modern physics. Exactly what happens in a black hole - a region in space where matter is compressed to such an extent that not even light can escape from their immense gravitational pull - has long puzzled scientists. They initially posited theories that the holes were like a cosmic vacuum cleaner, sucking up everything in their path. Mr Hawking revolutionised the study of the holes when he demonstrated in 1976 that, under the strange rules of quantum physics, black holes are capable of radiating energy. He calculated that once black holes form they effectively start to "evaporate" away, radiating energy and losing mass in the process. But by conjuring up the so-called "Hawking radiation", the Cambridge mathematician, who is crippled by motor-neurone disease, also created one of the biggest conundrums in physics. That conundrum about the fate of what enters a black hole became known as the "information paradox". According to current theory, Hawking radiation contains no information about the matter inside a black hole, and once the black hole has evaporated, all the information within it is lost. However this conflicts with a central tenet of quantum physics, which says that such information can never be completely wiped out. Mr Hawking said that the recapturing the information had important philosophical and practical consequences. "We can never be sure of the past or predict the future precisely," he said. "A lot of people wanted to believe that information escaped from black holes but they didn't know how it could get out." Mr Hawking did not elaborate on the BBC program how the information could be extracted from the black hole. Curt Cutler, from the Albert Einstein Institute in Golm, Germany, which is chairing the meeting in Dublin, told New Scientist magazine that Mr Hawking asked at the last minute for permission to address the conference. "He sent a note saying 'I have solved the black hole information paradox and I want to talk about it'," Mr Cutler said. If Mr Hawking succeeds in making his case, he will lose a bet that he and theoretical physicist Kip Thorne, of the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) made with John Preskill, also of Caltech. The terms of the bet were that "information swallowed by a black hole is forever hidden and can never be revealed". Mr Preskill bet against that theory. The forfeit is an encyclopaedia, from which Mr Preskill can recover information at will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsh Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 it takes a big man to admit you were wrong. stephen hawking, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 it takes a big man to admit you were wrong. stephen hawking, considering no one can understand what the hell he's talking about, no ones gonna argue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 considering no one can understand what the hell he's talking about, no ones gonna argue And if you have ever read any of his books, you know exactly how true that statement is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 And if you have ever read any of his books, you know exactly how true that statement is I love his books. I have read 2 of them. I am VERY intrerested in the world of quantum physics. Once you study it, it is almost mind boggling! If Hawking is correct, this would bea HUGE break through in the world of quantum physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 If Hawking is correct, this would bea HUGE break through in the world of quantum physics. Could you explain for those of us who don't major in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Ok now we just need to test this on a black hole and we're all set right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Could you explain for those of us who don't major in it? Man, it is so complicated even when i THINK I understand it, i dont. lol. Much like quantum physics, it's a paradox. I dont think I could explain it even if I tried. The one thing that did catch my eye when i was reading somethign was this: We all know space is 4 dimensions. Time being the 4th. We assume time moves forward, however, there may be particles that move BACKWARDS in time. It's amazing. PS: I am a radio broadcasting major Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Ok now we just need to test this on a black hole and we're all set right? Hey MIke! how ya doin man? Back from school for the summer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Man, it is so complicated even when i THINK I understand it, i dont. lol. Much like quantum physics, it's a paradox. I dont think I could explain it even if I tried. The one thing that did catch my eye when i was reading somethign was this: We all know space is 4 dimensions. Time being the 4th. We assume time moves forward, however, there may be particles that move BACKWARDS in time. It's amazing. PS: I am a radio broadcasting major That is like some seriously deep s***. Almost deep enough for me to get into it actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 PS: I am a radio broadcasting major Yeah I was just kidding. So basically time becomes another one of those bad sci-fi time movies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Hey Athomeboy, did you go up to the Field Muesuem and see the Edison exhibit when it was up here? They had an incredible lecture of the movement of time, at speeds greater than the speed of light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 My college roommate and I were going to start a band called "Steven Hawking's Talking Chair." We were going to cover hit songs with the infamous chair voice... Still, this guy is a freaking genius. His books are awesome. I remember reading them. They're almost philosophical in a sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 My college roommate and I were going to start a band called "Steven Hawking's Talking Chair." We were going to cover hit songs with the infamous chair voice... Still, this guy is a freaking genius. His books are awesome. I remember reading them. They're almost philosophical in a sense... To me they are philosophy until enough other smart people come along to prove or disprove them. But his books are just mindblowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 To me they are philosophy until enough other smart people come along to prove or disprove them. But his books are just mindblowing. Right or worng, he gets people to think. And THAT is the key to scientific advance. Wasnt he the one that came up witht he idea of black holes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Nope, check out this article: The History of Black Holes The idea has been around for a while, but the math for it was based on Einstein's unified field equation. Man, I loved physics in college... The only reason I did engineering and not astrophysics is that those astrophysics people are WEIRD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 The only reason I did engineering and not astrophysics is that those astrophysics people are WEIRD. That they are - or at least appear to be. They're thinking on way more levels than the rest of us probably. A good friend went to Berkley to do an astrophysics degree. He ended up leaving the field and going on to do a Ph.D. at Stanford in ultra-low-temp particle physics. He also helped design some of the automation robots they used to finish up the Human Genome Project. Man, what a dummy that guy is, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 That's the thing that amazes me about this board. You can have a discussion on anything from masterbation, to showering, to video games, to Christianity, to Astrophysics, and anything in between, and there will be plenty of people who have interest in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 You can have a discussion on anything from masterbation, to showering, to video games. What a coincidence!! I happen to be an expert in the field of masturbating in the shower while playing video games! OK, maybe that last part shouldnt be in green. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Ok now we just need to test this on a black hole and we're all set right? I'll add onto your question, because I'm interested in the purpose of answering this paradox of physics. How can anyone prove his theory correct, or at that, how in the HELL does he originate a formula to figure out whether anything can escape a Black Hole? Speed of Light is known, but beyond that how can Hawkins speculate whether a Black Hole deterioates. Its not as if a small-scale model is in a scientific laboratory, awaiting examination. Maybe my feeble brain has yet to understand the implications such a discovery provides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Maybe my feeble brain has yet to understand the implications such a discovery provides. That's the point. They lure you in using big words that they made up so you don't know what they are talking about and then they write books on it and people buy them. It's a big scam I tells ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 That's the point. They lure you in using big words that they made up so you don't know what they are talking about and then they write books on it and people buy them. It's a big scam I tells ya! You may have something here. Rereading the orginal article (which I browsed through initially) this information stood out. A black hole only appears to form but later opens up and releases information about what fell inside. So we can be sure of the past and predict the future," he said. Will this be the one moment future generations look back on and pinpoint where it all went wrong? Shouldn't there be some Terminator cyborg from the future looking to destroy Hawkins about now? Let me reflect back on Back To The Future, Butterfly Effect, and Simpsons Tree House of Horrors. Isn't it potentially dangerous to tamper with the space time continuim? How, and why would mankind want to "be sure of the past" or "predict the future?" Hawkins would probably f*** something up anyways. His wheelchair will roll over a bug that was intended to bite the future president of the United States, which would have transmitted malaria and canceled plans of attending a nuclear summit in Russia. Instead, the bug is dead, future president attends summit, and the world begins a Nuclear Holocaust! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 You may have something here. Rereading the orginal article (which I browsed through initially) this information stood out. Will this be the one moment future generations look back on and pinpoint where it all went wrong? Shouldn't there be some Terminator cyborg from the future looking to destroy Hawkins about now? Let me reflect back on Back To The Future, Butterfly Effect, and Simpsons Tree House of Horrors. Isn't it potentially dangerous to tamper with the space time continuim? How, and why would mankind want to "be sure of the past" or "predict the future?" Hawkins would probably f*** something up anyways. His wheelchair will roll over a bug that was intended to bite the future president of the United States, which would have transmitted malaria and canceled plans of attending a nuclear summit in Russia. Instead, the bug is dead, future president attends summit, and the world begins a Nuclear Holocaust! The nuclear holocost will prevent the earth-shattering timequake caused by the bug being smashed. So, it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Let me reflect back on Back To The Future, Butterfly Effect, and Simpsons Tree House of Horrors. You lost all credibility right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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