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Overpaying yet again


LostInBoston

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From Yahoo:

 

Thousands of miles away in Montreal, a similar process is beginning, as the Expos have just traded Carl Everett to the White Sox for a pair of arms, and more deals should be coming within the next two weeks. Like we said two weeks ago, Ken Williams is the best person in baseball to trade with, as he generally overpays, and the Expos look like they've gotten a steal in Jon Rauch and Gary Majewski. The plan is to have Everett play right field until Magglio Ordonez is fully healed, then shift Everett to DH. But Everett has yet to show that he can stay healthy for more than two weeks at a time. He has lost more games to injury than he has played this season.

 

You could probably argue that Kenny didn't overpay for Garcia, but I think this trade for Everett follows in the long, painful tradition of Kip Wells et al. Yes, we needed someone to replace Frank, but why does it always appear that we're the DESPERATE team trading away a lot to get ANYTHING? Montreal was trying to dump salary... I'm sure had Kenny stuck to his guns he could've gotten away with just trading away much less...

 

I dunno. I don't like this trade at all - I like having Everett but I don't think Kenny has the bargaining skills necessary for his job.

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From Yahoo:

 

 

 

You could probably argue that Kenny didn't overpay for Garcia, but I think this trade for Everett follows in the long, painful tradition of Kip Wells et al. Yes, we needed someone to replace Frank, but why does it always appear that we're the DESPERATE team trading away a lot to get ANYTHING? Montreal was trying to dump salary... I'm sure had Kenny stuck to his guns he could've gotten away with just trading away much less...

 

I dunno. I don't like this trade at all - I like having Everett but I don't think Kenny has the bargaining skills necessary for his job.

Oh boy. Kenny didn't overpay at all, he gave up basically nothing, imo to get Carl. I guess no matter what kenny does there is always going to be people complaining.

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From Yahoo:

 

 

 

You could probably argue that Kenny didn't overpay for Garcia, but I think this trade for Everett follows in the long, painful tradition of Kip Wells et al. Yes, we needed someone to replace Frank, but why does it always appear that we're the DESPERATE team trading away a lot to get ANYTHING? Montreal was trying to dump salary... I'm sure had Kenny stuck to his guns he could've gotten away with just trading away much less...

 

I dunno. I don't like this trade at all - I like having Everett but I don't think Kenny has the bargaining skills necessary for his job.

Holy cow, be careful!!

 

The last time I started a thread like this, it ended up getting locked because there was so much name calling.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, however. I think GMs love trading with KW because, as the quote states, he consistently overpays. He WAY overpaid for Garcia - unless the Sox get to the WS. With Garcia's relationship with Guillen, KW could have gotten Garcia in the offseason for nothing.

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Just about every GM in kenny's position is going to overpay.

There is nothing wrong with this trade, so we gave up 2 prospects, key word PROSPECTS. Good chance neither of 'em do anything.

Some people will find the worst in everything

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Holy cow, be careful!!

 

The last time I started a thread like this, it ended up getting locked because there was so much name calling.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, however.  I think GMs love trading with KW because, as the quote states, he consistently overpays.  He WAY overpaid for Garcia - unless the Sox get to the WS.  With Garcia's relationship with Guillen, KW could have gotten Garcia in the offseason for nothing.

Since when is Jon Rauch and Gary Majewski 'overpaying'?

 

And - had we not traded for Garcia, our front three would be Buehrle-Garland-Loaiza, but I guess an armchair GM such as yourself would have found a way to get Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens for nothing more than a bag of balls and a pack of gum.

 

Anyways - why the hell are you still here? You know the Sox won't make the playoffs, you predicted it a month or so ago. You know what's going to happen with this team, they suck, so why even be here?

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Since when is Jon Rauch and Gary Majewski 'overpaying'?

 

And - had we not traded for Garcia, our front three would be Buehrle-Garland-Loaiza, but I guess an armchair GM such as yourself would have found a way to get Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens for nothing more than a bag of balls and a pack of gum.

 

Anyways - why the hell are you still here?  You know the Sox won't make the playoffs, you predicted it a month or so ago.  You know what's going to happen with this team, they suck, so why even be here?

:notworthy :notworthy I thought the people against that trade would finally realize the worth of Garcia for his showing in Oakland. When Buehrle didn't have a great game and Garland was solid but still no offense to pick him up and Loaiza wasn't very good either Freddy stepped up huge. Freddy flat out dominated the a's, pitched over awful defense and pitched a huge game for this team. But no we don't need him, we might have got him in the offseason. :headshake

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Holy cow, be careful!!

 

The last time I started a thread like this, it ended up getting locked because there was so much name calling.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, however.  I think GMs love trading with KW because, as the quote states, he consistently overpays.  He WAY overpaid for Garcia - unless the Sox get to the WS.  With Garcia's relationship with Guillen, KW could have gotten Garcia in the offseason for nothing.

You posted this a couple months ago:

The fact is that none of these guys - Diaz, Munoz, Rauch and Cotts - are ready to be major league pitchers. Cotts is only up because he's left handed and Wunsch is a walking injury list. Unfortunately, every other major league team now also knows that the Sox' best minor league arms are not ready for the majors. Before trotting out all of them to fail, KW may have been able to get something in trade for 1 or 2 of them - now they are basically worthless until next year.

So you said that none of the 5th starters are ready for the major leagues yet there was no point in getting Garcia? Also you say that Rauch had no trade value, so if he has no value how did Kenny overpay?

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The Sox gave up two guys who had no future in the Organization, for a guy who should help them win games down the stretch...

 

Jurassic's Win Shares = 1.8 -- Rauch's Win Shares = .2 --

 

Net gain of 1.6 Win Shares.. WS are related to teams victories, so if carl performed at an equal level on the Sox he would have even more WS...

 

I expect him to perform at a level comparable to last season, because he is in a pennant race. He was one of the only guys who showed any heart down the stretch last season....

 

He crushed the AL central, and we play 39? more games vs. the central this season... what's not to like?

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Make this trade last winter and we'd have gotten a ton.

Rauch was highly regarded.

If we had the money of the Yanks I wouldn't mind over paying 'cause

it'd be apparent we'd just sign free agents to fill our gaps.

But all we do is trade away our "name" prospects, which

is overpaying.

Trade some scrubs nobody has heard of once in a while.

 

I mean Everett for Rauch??? C'mon, last winter we'd have laughed

at that deal. Rauch acts up one game at Cell Field in leaving early

and everybody is glad to get rid of him.

Everett has been hurt and hasn't done squat this year.

Hope that changes for our sake.

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Rauch has had numerous chances to prove himself and on almost all accounts has sucked. Why all this sudden love for Ruach?? Majewski?? Please who the hell is he? He is a suspect and hasn't proved anything.

EXACTLY, sqrew Rauch and what has Majewski ever done he has a 3 era with 14 saves in AAA I'm not too concerened about losing him.

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You posted this a couple months ago:

 

So you said that none of the 5th starters are ready for the major leagues yet there was no point in getting Garcia?  Also you say that Rauch had no trade value, so if he has no value how did Kenny overpay?

Damn! Can you say.. OWNED!!.. (If I were you Ozzietheairedale, I would just crawl in a corner) :ph34r: :lol:

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Holy cow, be careful!!

 

The last time I started a thread like this, it ended up getting locked because there was so much name calling.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, however.  I think GMs love trading with KW because, as the quote states, he consistently overpays.  He WAY overpaid for Garcia - unless the Sox get to the WS.  With Garcia's relationship with Guillen, KW could have gotten Garcia in the offseason for nothing.

Yeah sure ... let's just wait until all the guys Ozzie has a good rapport with become free agents, and THEN we'll start trying to win something.

 

Remember two things, this was a trade with Montreal, which is owned by the 29 other teams. Trades need to be approved by the commissioner. As much as we like to think Montreal would've given Everett away for nothing, that's not the case. They aren't going to be stripped down for the new owners/new market.

 

Second, the likely reason two pitchers were involved is because a substantial amount of cash came Chicago's way - about $1.5 million to pay the rest of Everett's salary. If KW needed cash to complete the deal, wouldn't you say that's an issue with ownership, not the GM?

 

Or, is it possible that by completing a payroll neutral deal via adding a pitching prospect, it gives Williams the flexibility to do something else by 7/31?

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Make this trade last winter and we'd have gotten a ton.

Rauch was highly regarded.

Greg ... really? By whom?

 

He had a 7-8 record at AAA last year and his ERA was over 4. His velocity has never come all the way back and there were concerns with his attitude. Don't think for a second that information was only privy to White Sox personnel.

 

It's nice to think our prospects are very highly regarded, but reality is likely different.

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Make this trade last winter and we'd have gotten a ton.

Rauch was highly regarded.

If we had the money of the Yanks I wouldn't mind over paying 'cause

it'd be apparent we'd just sign free agents to fill our gaps.

But all we do is trade away our "name" prospects, which

is overpaying.

Trade some scrubs nobody has heard of once in a while.

 

I mean Everett for Rauch??? C'mon, last winter we'd have laughed

at that deal. Rauch acts up one game at Cell Field in leaving early

and everybody is glad to get rid of him.

Everett has been hurt and hasn't done squat this year.

Hope that changes for our sake.

Although I thought Rauch committed a big no-no in baseball standards by leaving that game early, I think the problem most people had with him was that he sucked. The guy already had a couple arm surgeries and from anything we've seen of him up in the big leagues, he's looked like absolute crap. A fastball that tops out around 93, a mediocre curveball and inconsistent control is not going to lead us to success.

 

Personally, I think we actually got a steal in this trade. We traded two vanishing prospects who's chances seem to be running out for a guy who was an all-star as early as last year. Even if Everett turns out to be an absolute failure, I think we got the maximum value for what we traded.

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I'm glad to see Carl going out and making an immediate impact on the team. If he can continue this, without getting injured like he has most of the year, I think this trade will be great. I guess I was just concerned to see us giving up "potential" for a doubtful "now" considering Carl's track record this year. It all remains to be seen if we overpaid, and I probably shouldn't have judged too early. I like Carl and respect what he did for us last year. Lets hope he keeps it up... :headbang

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LostinBoston and Ozzie

 

Do you guys know Montreal is paying for all of Carl's salary this year?

 

So, basically we will be able to replace Maggs next year with Carl (who when healthy can play the RF fine) if Maggs walks. Carl will make 4.5 M next year and his #s are worth that much (he will definitely hit 20 dingers considering how friendly USCF is to dingers now)

 

We can spend the delta between what Maggs wants and what Carl will make (which is ~10M) to get pitching

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How does this trade suck?

 

I think we overpaid in the fact that we gave up more talent then we got...and I think it would be hard for people to argue with me. But Rauch had attitude problems, and every organization knows this. The stuff that got him minor leaguer of the year in 2000 was lost when he tore his shoulder up, and it is no longer here, and will not return. We essentially needed to get rid of him, because he had no future in the organization, and 29 other teams knew this.

 

Majewski was traded to LA, traded back to the Sox, picked in the Rule V draft by the Blue Jays, and given back to the Sox...he has bounced around and just finds his way back to the Sox seemingly every time.

 

We did not give up too much in the end. We gave up probably the right amount.

 

Same thing happens in the Garcia trade. We had to give up Olivo, Reed, and Morse. Otherwise he ends up in New York or Los Angeles.

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This was a fair deal from both sides. And Greg, Rauch hasn't been too highly thought of for quite a while, imo.

 

The Sox weren't pleased with him and no one can blame the Sox for not dealing him earlier.

 

Geeze...everyone just go back and read what I wrote in the thread about prospects that the Sox have given up. Folks, hate to say it, but the guys they are giving up, minus Reed and arguably Webster, Rupe, and Fransisco (who wasn't thought of as a high upside prospect) aren't all that good in terms of general MLB.

 

The sox system is thin at the top and deep at the bottom. Of course younger, lower level prospects, while talented, rarely command much in trade value.

 

This is not an example of the Sox giving up too much, imo. This is an example of getting a player they coveted. Just wait and see what the Dbacks get for Finley and then tell me how much the Sox overpaid....cause when you see a team give up one of its actual top prospects plus another prospect as good as Rauch or Majewski and then think about it. I realize Finley is a good player but so is a healthy Carl Everett.

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