israel4ever Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Really?? Who would be better? Don't say the Cubs, PLEASE!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I'd want Benson, cuz he's a definite upgrade over what we have. Don't get carried away by Shoney's last start...he sucks! The AL seems to be on to Loiaza and his cutter...I don't know how gung ho I'd be about re-signing him. If you have Buehrle, Garcia and Benson at the top of your rotation, you'd have as good a 1-2-3 as anyone in MLB. Send Pittsburgh Crede and a "prospect"! His problem isn't that the league has caught up with his cutter, his problem has been that his location has been god awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Either way...ELo is nowhere near the pitcher he was in 2003, and will probably never approach that level again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 ...and Jon Adkins too!!! BTW...Hey Ozzie...BRING BACK KELLY WUNSCH!!!!! #1 roster moves aren't up to Ozzie #2 Wunsch is still on the DL, is just starting a rehab, and even when he did pitch earlier this year his fastball was topping out the 83-84 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 #1 roster moves aren't up to Ozzie #2 Wunsch is still on the DL, is just starting a rehab, and even when he did pitch earlier this year his fastball was topping out the 83-84 range. Yeah, he looked pretty bad up here earlier in the season. It would be awesome to have last years Kelly Wunsch back but at this point I think that's unrealistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Yeah, he looked pretty bad up here earlier in the season. It would be awesome to have last years Kelly Wunsch back but at this point I think that's unrealistic. Sure and if Kelly starts hitting his usual 91-93 get his ass back up here. Neal Cotts can go back to starting at AAA, because we won't need him up here. But until then, Kelly needs to come no where near here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Sure and if Kelly starts hitting his usual 91-93 get his ass back up here. Neal Cotts can go back to starting at AAA, because we won't need him up here. But until then, Kelly needs to come no where near here. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Looks like Pitt is trying it again. They are trying to convince teams to take Kendall if they want Benson. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...4p-184503c.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 CNNSI write up on Benson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 We can definitely use Kendall...too bad the Sox won't pay for both Kendall and Benson. :banghead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 If you have Buehrle, Garcia and Benson at the top of your rotation, you'd have as good a 1-2-3 as anyone in MLB. Um, not really. Benson almost immediately becomes a 4.5 ERA guy when he moves to the AL. Think Chan Ho Park. The Cubs would actually have 3 guys better than that, and that's not counting Prior and Wood, since they are both hurting. Oakland would still have a better top 3 because Garcia and Buehrle do not equal Hudson and Mulder(plus I would rather have Zito than Benson). The Marlins staff is also still better. Even with Beckett still having blister problems and Burnett not his old self after Tommy John surgery, Pavano, Penny and Willis is still solid. The Yankees have a better staff if Brown comes back and Mussina figures thing out, but I don't think either are that likely. Boston would be close, since Schilling and Pedro probably beat out our top 2(the other guy kind of sucks though). Benson is not a # 1 type starter that is going to alter a playoff series. For all the talk about is stuff, his k's per 9 innings is lower than Garica and Buehrle, and is comparable to Loaiza, and that's factoring in the pitchers. I think anyone(especially AL teams) that give that much for him will be sorely disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 If Pittsburgh wants someone to take both those salaries then they wouldn't cost much in prospects. Cause no team is gonna sell the farm and take on a s*** load of Salary. If we would pickup the salary then they would come cheap and i wouldn't mind Benson just to have Kendall. And of course Benson's wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Um, not really. Benson almost immediately becomes a 4.5 ERA guy when he moves to the AL. Think Chan Ho Park. The Cubs would actually have 3 guys better than that, and that's not counting Prior and Wood, since they are both hurting. Oakland would still have a better top 3 because Garcia and Buehrle do not equal Hudson and Mulder(plus I would rather have Zito than Benson). The Marlins staff is also still better. Even with Beckett still having blister problems and Burnett not his old self after Tommy John surgery, Pavano, Penny and Willis is still solid. The Yankees have a better staff if Brown comes back and Mussina figures thing out, but I don't think either are that likely. Boston would be close, since Schilling and Pedro probably beat out our top 2(the other guy kind of sucks though). Benson is not a # 1 type starter that is going to alter a playoff series. For all the talk about is stuff, his k's per 9 innings is lower than Garica and Buehrle, and is comparable to Loaiza, and that's factoring in the pitchers. I think anyone(especially AL teams) that give that much for him will be sorely disappointed. If you would rather have Maddux, Clement and Zambrano over Buehrle, Garcia, and Kris Benson, YOU need to stop drinking the "cubbie kool aid"! Maddux = done Zambrano = flash in the pan Clement = average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I think Garland is a better pitcher than Benson. Benson has good stuff, but I don't think he helps this team out that much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Benson would be a great addition to the Sox. Schoney and Loaiza are real question marks in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Benson would be a great addition to the Sox. Schoney and Loaiza are real question marks in my mind. YASNY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Um, not really. Benson almost immediately becomes a 4.5 ERA guy when he moves to the AL. Think Chan Ho Park. The Cubs would actually have 3 guys better than that, and that's not counting Prior and Wood, since they are both hurting. Oakland would still have a better top 3 because Garcia and Buehrle do not equal Hudson and Mulder(plus I would rather have Zito than Benson). The Marlins staff is also still better. Even with Beckett still having blister problems and Burnett not his old self after Tommy John surgery, Pavano, Penny and Willis is still solid. The Yankees have a better staff if Brown comes back and Mussina figures thing out, but I don't think either are that likely. Boston would be close, since Schilling and Pedro probably beat out our top 2(the other guy kind of sucks though). Benson is not a # 1 type starter that is going to alter a playoff series. For all the talk about is stuff, his k's per 9 innings is lower than Garica and Buehrle, and is comparable to Loaiza, and that's factoring in the pitchers. I think anyone(especially AL teams) that give that much for him will be sorely disappointed. So basically, you're saying that Mar Buehrle would not be on the Cubs 5 man starting rotation?! You are out of your freakin' mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 If you would rather have Maddux, Clement and Zambrano over Buehrle, Garcia, and Kris Benson, YOU need to stop drinking the "cubbie kool aid"! Maddux = done Zambrano = flash in the pan Clement = average You need to stop drinking the Sox kool-aid. Do you even watch baseball? A comparison of the numbers: Garcia- 3.35 ERA 7.44 K/9 Zambrano- 2.81 ERA 8.28 K/9 Buehrle- 3.86 ERA 6.44 K/9 Clement- 3.12 ERA 9.37 K/9 Benson- 4.13 ERA 5.43 K/9 Maddux- 4.09 ERA 6.10 K/9 Don't make me look at last year, that's even worse. Considering these are their 3-4-5 starters when everyone is healthy, I think it's safe to say their rotation is better, much as it pains me. Zambrano is far from a flash in the pan, he is widely considered one of the best young pitchers in the game. Clement has some of the best stuff in the league, as his K rate shows. If he got any run support he would be among the leaders in wins. Maddux's ERA is better than 3 of our 5 starters, so the conclusion that he is done is an exaggeration. He's not as good as he was, but he can still pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 So basically, you're saying that Mar Buehrle would not be on the Cubs 5 man starting rotation?! You are out of your freakin' mind! You apparently don't understand the idea of comparing 1-3 starters. Our #1 starter is Garcia, our #2 is Buehrle. Because of injuries, their #1 is Zambrano, their #2 is Clement. Saying that Buehrle is better than their #5 starter doesn't really add anything to the argument. Yes, Buehrle is better than Maddux and a hurt Prior and Wood, but that doesn't really mean anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Ever wonder why Kris Benson is always smiling? Check Out His Better Half Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 You need to stop drinking the Sox kool-aid. Do you even watch baseball? A comparison of the numbers: Garcia- 3.35 ERA 7.44 K/9 Zambrano- 2.81 ERA 8.28 K/9 Buehrle- 3.86 ERA 6.44 K/9 Clement- 3.12 ERA 9.37 K/9 Benson- 4.13 ERA 5.43 K/9 Maddux- 4.09 ERA 6.10 K/9 Don't make me look at last year, that's even worse. Considering these are their 3-4-5 starters when everyone is healthy, I think it's safe to say their rotation is better, much as it pains me. Zambrano is far from a flash in the pan, he is widely considered one of the best young pitchers in the game. Clement has some of the best stuff in the league, as his K rate shows. If he got any run support he would be among the leaders in wins. Maddux's ERA is better than 3 of our 5 starters, so the conclusion that he is done is an exaggeration. He's not as good as he was, but he can still pitch. That's not a fair comparison at all to compare al pitchers with nl pitchers. Actually by the numbers you gave I think you've proved that the sox trio would be better then the cubs trio. However if you add a healthy prior some where into that flubs trio then the flubs is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 That's not a fair comparison at all to compare al pitchers with nl pitchers. Actually by the numbers you gave I think you've proved that the sox trio would be better then the cubs trio. However if you add a healthy prior some where into that flubs trio then the flubs is better. It's also not a fair comparison, because, as a whole, the NL sucks. The AL has much more talent and better teams. IMO...the Yankees, Redsox, A's, Angels, are better than ANY NL team, and the Whitesox, Twins, and Rangers are not far behind them! BTW...if everyone was healthy, and you were making a starting rotation out of the Cubs and Sox staffs, Buehrle would have to be #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 That's not a fair comparison at all to compare al pitchers with nl pitchers. Actually by the numbers you gave I think you've proved that the sox trio would be better then the cubs trio. However if you add a healthy prior some where into that flubs trio then the flubs is better. Not really. Even if you add a half run to the ERA and subract a strikeout from their rate they still have the lead. The difference between the two leagues isn't THAT great. Plus you have to remember that if you add numbers to compensate for the AL to NL you have to do it for Benson too. And with a healthy Prior and Wood it's a blowout. Please stop arguing. I hate praising the Cubs in any way, but even I have to admit that when everyone is healthy they have the best rotation in the league. To tell you the truth I would rather have Garland than Benson. His production is probably similar to what you can expect from Benson, and he doesn't have the arm problems. There is no way I give up something like Borchard and Anderson to get Benson, which is rumored to be what they are looking for, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 It's also not a fair comparison, because, as a whole, the NL sucks. The AL has much more talent and better teams. IMO...the Yankees, Redsox, A's, Angels, are better than ANY NL team, and the Whitesox, Twins, and Rangers are not far behind them! BTW...if everyone was healthy, and you were making a starting rotation out of the Cubs and Sox staffs, Buehrle would have to be #1. Come one now! Put down the crackpipe. I'm stopping this argument since you are ovbiously too biased to have a logical argument. Buehrle isn't even the best pitcher on the SOX staff in my opinion. The Yankees might be better than anyone in the NL, and maybe the A's(although I don't think so. Good pitching but only decent offense and bullpen). But I would much rather play the Red Sox or Angels than the Cardinals. Their offense is incredible, their stating pitching has been solid from top to bottom, and their pen has been pretty good. The Red Sox might win if they play in a playoff series because of Schilling and Pedro, but the rest of their rotation is godawful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Not really. Even if you add a half run to the ERA and subract a strikeout from their rate they still have the lead. The difference between the two leagues isn't THAT great. Plus you have to remember that if you add numbers to compensate for the AL to NL you have to do it for Benson too. And with a healthy Prior and Wood it's a blowout. Please stop arguing. I hate praising the Cubs in any way, but even I have to admit that when everyone is healthy they have the best rotation in the league. To tell you the truth I would rather have Garland than Benson. His production is probably similar to what you can expect from Benson, and he doesn't have the arm problems. There is no way I give up something like Borchard and Anderson to get Benson, which is rumored to be what they are looking for, When the flubs rotation is 100 percent healthy they have the 2nd best 1-5 in the league, imo behind the marlins. I'm just saying though if your going zambrano, clement, and maddux vs. Buehrle, Garica, and Benson, I'd take the ladder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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