Sorry Tex

[Wong & Owens]

But your state education system is run by some verrrrrry repressed people :

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5469437/?GT1=4244

[Texsox]

When people rally against National Education standards, I point out that California, Texas, and Florida account for almost 1/3 of the textbook sales. We have National standards because so many textbooks cannot be profitable. If Texas and Florida start using abstinance prefered text books, other states will be forced to follow.

 

And, personally, If schools must teach sex ed, I think schools should stress abstinance instead of The Joy of Sex.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I heard about this on NPR last week. basically most of the reviewers (with one strong dissenting opinion) said a vague reference to "barrier methods" was as close as the books needed to get in talking about condoms and pretty much anything other than abstinence.

 

The scary part though, is that Texas as so huge that the guidelines the set forth usually have a profound effect on how the textbooks are written for the rest of the country as well.

[Wong & Owens]

When people rally against National Education standards, I point out that California, Texas, and Florida account for almost 1/3 of the textbook sales. We have National standards because so many textbooks cannot be profitable. If Texas and Florida start using abstinance prefered text books, other states will be forced to follow.

 

And, personally, If schools must teach sex ed, I think schools should stress abstinance instead of The Joy of Sex.

I don't think that's realistic.

 

High school kids have had sex since the dawn of high schools. If over a hundred years of avoiding the topic doesn't tell you it's not working, then I'm not sure what will. IMO, you'll get much farther with kids by informing them of the repercussions of their actions rather than telling them just not to do it without telling them why.

 

 

Getting plenty of rest helps keep STD's away?

 

C'mon, that's just idiotic. Is the "Masturbation makes you go blind" theory in there too?

[marsh]

Texas SEX Education = don't have sex. do not mention condoms!

 

Texas DRIVERS Education = don't drive. do not mention seatbelts!

[Texsox]

I don't think that's realistic.

 

High school kids have had sex since the dawn of high schools.  If over a hundred years of avoiding the topic doesn't tell you it's not working, then I'm not sure what will.  IMO, you'll get much farther with kids by informing them of the repercussions of their actions rather than telling them just not to do it without telling them why.

 

 

Getting plenty of rest helps keep STD's away?

 

C'mon, that's just idiotic.  Is the "Masturbation makes you go blind" theory in there too?

If you believe normal kids have sex at 15 and the abnormal ones abstain, then I agree. Kids need to be assured that abstaining is ok to. It is the only 100% full proof protection.

 

Is this the advice you would give your daughter?

 

Mom or Dad to 14 year old daughter. "Wow that Billy is hot. Remember what they taught you in school. Even if it's only a blow job have him wear a condom. He should put on the condom as soon as he has an erection and be very careful after intercourse in removing the condom. Have a fun night!"

 

Teen pregnancy and drinking and driving are the two things that ruin more teenagers lives than anything else. Should we be teaching kids how to safely drink?

 

What's next, hearing your 16 year old son say, "hey Mom, Shannon and I are going to have intercourse in my room, please don't disturb us."

 

"OK son, just remember to wear a condom like they showed you in school. Thank God you two are doing it like everybody else. I was beginning to think you were abnormal."

[Queen Prawn]

Kids are growing up faster these days. None of this stuff even crossed my mind in HS. College now...that is a different story.

 

Kids should be educated at least so they have the knowledge. And as for "drinking safely," I don't know how other schools handle it, but in 8th grade we had to watch a film about the results of drinking and driving...I came this close (fore finger and thumb are really close together) to puking. None of us (brother, sister or myself) drank or had sex while in HS, not sure what was different in my family as opposed to others who did partake in those kinds of activities.

[marsh]

(in reply to tex)

 

those are good points. i don't think that people who want condoms included are saying ignore abstinance. it's the abstinance people that are saying ignore condoms. yes they should push abstinance foremost, but they should still teach the facts about methods of birth control. including the fact that condoms alone are not 100% effective.

 

you may not want to teach your child to drink safely or responsibly, but i would guess you (not you specifically, a general you) would still tell them that they can always call you if they do drink, and that they should never get in the car with someone who is drinking.

[Texsox]

Kids are growing up faster these days.  None of this stuff even crossed my mind in HS.

Well it seems others believe it should have. You should have learned how to have your guy put on a condom as a Freshman. How it can be safe.

[Wong & Owens]

If you believe normal kids have sex at 15 and the abnormal ones abstain, then I agree. Kids need to be assured that abstaining is ok to. It is the only 100% full proof protection.

 

I think normal kids are very curious about sex at 15, and many experiment with it, even if it's not going so far as to include intercourse. I think that through discussion of the possible ramifications of sexual conduct, the point would be very clear that abstinence would be the safest route to take.

 

Is this the advice you would give your daughter?

 

Mom or Dad to 14 year old daughter. "Wow that Billy is hot. Remember what they taught you in school. Even if it's only a blow job have him wear a condom. He should put on the condom as soon as he has an erection and be very careful after intercourse in removing the condom. Have a fun night!"

 

No, I would have had the "sex talk" at about 13, then asked her if she remembered our discussion before she went out with the Bill-meister. If what I told her was augmented/enhanced by a schoolroom discussion with her peers, then all the better.

 

Teen pregnancy and drinking and driving are the two things that ruin more teenagers lives than anything else. Should we be teaching kids how to safely drink?

 

No, but kids ARE taught about all the things that can happen IF you drink and drive.

 

What's next, hearing your 16 year old son say, "hey Mom, Shannon and I are going to have intercourse in my room, please don't disturb us."

 

Of course not. Where did this come from? I don't think teaching kids about how even oral sex can get you some gonorrhea would lead to them thinking they can screw in their room all day.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Should we be teaching kids how to safely drink?

This is getting off topic, but yes quite frankly we absolutely should.

 

I actually didn't do a ton of underage drinking in high school, but I'm very thankful I had a father who I could have called up anywhere, anytime and he'd pick me and my friends up if we had been drinking. It probably only happened two or three times. He wouldn't be overly happy about it, and he'd make sure to get me up extra early the next morning to do chores with a hangover, but he never ripped on me to the point that I ever had to drive after drinking to hide it from him.

 

My parents drank socially but they never made a big deal out of it one way or the other. They rarely got visibly intoxicated, but also never demonized alcohol. As such, I think I never felt like I HAD to have it as a minor, but also never felt like it was a big deal who chose to have a drink or not and whether they were 16, 18, or 25 as long as they didn't endanger themselves or others.

[Wedge]

those are good points. i don't think that people who want condoms included are saying ignore abstinance. it's the abstinance people that are saying ignore condoms. yes they should push abstinance foremost, but they should still teach the facts about methods of birth control. including the fact that condoms alone are not 100% effective.

I think that the abstinance people say ignore condoms because most of the abstinance people are religious. I know Catholics are taught that using birth control is wrong, and I would think many religious groups would hold a similar belief.

[marsh]

I think that the abstinance people say ignore condoms because most of the abstinance people are religious.  I know Catholics are taught that using birth control is wrong, and I would think many religious groups would hold a similar belief.

i think that they should absolutely abstain, preferably their whole lives.

[Texsox]

Of course not.  Where did this come from?  I don't think teaching kids about how even oral sex can get you some gonorrhea would lead to them thinking they can screw in their room all day.

But if kids are going to have sex isn't it safer in their bedrooms than parking in a remote area? If we are going to keep kids safe from STDs while they have sex, shouldn't we be concerned about assault, robbery, etc. from parking in unsafe areas? Where do you want them to have this safe sex? Or should we send a mixed message, we'll teach you all about it, but sneak around and find a dark alley somewhere?

 

Further, it's all b.s. to me since I firmly believe that moral and ethical education should not be the responsibility of the schools, instead it should be the parents.

 

I just noticed I'm debating this from a guy who lists his interests as

Llama racing, Romanian porn, Fondue, and the occasional trombone.

 

I guess this is part of the porn. :headshake

[Queen Prawn]

Further, it's all b.s. to me since I firmly believe that moral and ethical education should not be the responsibility of the schools, instead it should be the parents.

Problem is most parents don't take the time any more to teach those things. I don't see how teaching it in school is a bad thing. I'd rather have kids armed with knowledge than being completely unarmed in those situations. I know too many girls that weren't taught a damned thing about sex or safe sex and had kids (and STDs) by the age of 15 (one had 2 kids by 15 and a third by 18).

[IlliniKrush]

This is getting off topic, but yes quite frankly we absolutely should.

 

I actually didn't do a ton of underage drinking in high school, but I'm very thankful I had a father who I could have called up anywhere, anytime and he'd pick me and my friends up if we had been drinking.  It probably only happened two or three times.  He wouldn't be overly happy about it, and he'd make sure to get me up extra early the next morning to do chores with a hangover, but he never ripped on me to the point that I ever had to drive after drinking to hide it from him.

 

My parents drank socially but they never made a big deal out of it one way or the other.  They rarely got visibly intoxicated, but also never demonized alcohol.  As such, I think I never felt like I HAD to have it as a minor, but also never felt like it was a big deal who chose to have a drink or not and whether they were 16, 18, or 25 as long as they didn't endanger themselves or others.

All my mom has ever been worried about is that i drink safely if i'm going to drink. If i'm over at someone's house, she could care less if i don't home come - she prefers i sleep over no matter what.

 

I also had the situation where parents offered to pick up if i had been drinking, but i never had to use it.

 

I think you do have to teach kids to drink safely, if they are going to do it. It's really a life lesson. When i turn 21 in a few months, nothing should change. The lessons you learn underage are the same things you follow when you are older.

 

About the whole sex thing...i don't know if teaching abstinence really works. Kids are having sex in high school these days in high numbers, if people told the truth through high school. They need to know the risks involved as early as possible.

[Texsox]

I know too many girls that weren't taught a damned thing about sex or safe sex and had kids (and STDs) by the age of 15 (one had 2 kids by 15 and a third by 18).

This is a prime example of a morals issue, not a sex ed issue. Presumably she figured out how she got pregnant the first time and chose to ignore it. She caught stds as in multiple. She was still clueless how she was infected? Didn't the Doctor tell her when she was first infected? Of course abstinance education wouldn't have made a difference here.

 

The schools cannot teach everything. OK kids let's put down the textbooks and learn how to use condoms.

 

I know kids that couldn't fix a dripping faucet, check the oil in a car, remove grass stains from blue jeans, read an interstate roadmap, yet we do not feel compelled to make that knowledge manditory for every student.

 

Why should parents have conflicting moral and ethical values taught to their children? We are allowing the government to raise our children, with values that the government wants. That is wong.

[Wong & Owens]

That is wong.

NO! I am Wong!

 

I agree with you, to a degree. I think that parents should absolutely be the main source of sexual info, but as we all know, a lot of people who become parents are idiots. Should a kid suffer because a parent is too clueless, or too uncomfortable to talk to them about sex? If they won't do it, somebody should.

[FlaSoxxJim]

We are allowing the government to raise our children, with values that the government wants. That is wong.

and owens??

 

I see the point you are trying to make in your statement "Why should parents have conflicting moral and ethical values taught to their children?" But unfortunately I think it is unrealistic today to hold society to the lofty standard of letting schools teach the Three R's and let the parents do the parenting. Because way too many parents don't bother being parents, teaching morals, or much caring about the development of their kids.

 

The way we did it when I taught in the public school system here was probably not a bad way to go. Human sexuality, including contraception, std's, and other social issues, was taught as part of the reproduction unit in high school biology. The straight reproduction and fetal development stuff was taught just as any other biology topic, it was required teaching by state standards and students could not get out of it. The human sexuality etc. stuff was all done over two days by county-certified health care teachers (not by the classroom biology teacher), and the students HAD to have written permission from their parents (who got an advance list of topics to be covered) to participate. If parents objected, they didn't sign and the students went to study hall.

[Texsox]

NO! I am Wong!

 

I agree with you, to a degree.  I think that parents should absolutely be the main source of sexual info, but as we all know, a lot of people who become parents are idiots.  Should a kid suffer because a parent is too clueless, or too uncomfortable to talk to them about sex?  If they won't do it, somebody should.

This is the point that we disagree on how to proceed. Some parents are clueless, embarrased, or just trust in the schools. Based on what you seem to be saying, since the parents cannot do the correct thing the

 

1. State should decide what should be taught, not the parents.

2. Every student must be taught, not just those from clueless homes.

 

Kids are bombarded with sex is ok messages all day and night. Reality shows have made marriage, sex, and dating some game. When some people want to take back sex and marriage they are branded as repressed and out of step.

 

I like the Boy Scout approach to the subject. Whenever a new youth joins (we have coed programs) they are given a youth protection pamphlet and the parents are asked to review the information with their child and sign the last page. The pamphlet reviews information on keeping safe from abuse, sexual behaviors, etc. It is left up to the parents how to approach the subjects. It is one of the principle tools we use to keep kids safe.