beck72 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I know, Neal's ERA is the highest of the bunch. Yet he's leading the staff in one of the most important stats of all----stranding inherited runners. Neal has only allowed 3 inherited runners to score out of the 18 guys who have been on base when he's come in. Tom Gordon is even behind Cotts' 83% rate, allowing 5 runners to score and saving 18 [a 78% rate]. These guys who strand runners are the unsung heroes of the bullpen, yet aren't talked about much. [This is one reason I like my "Sports Weekly" for just this stat] This stat was very surprising, given Cotts' high ERA of 5.87. But Neal has been the most successful White Sox pitcher in this regard. The Sox should be putting Cotts' out there when runners are on, rather than starting innings. Wunsch last year had a low ERA. Yet allowed a lot of inherited runners to score. [something like a 50% rate]. Another surprising stat on Cotts was that RH batters were only hitting .219 against him, while Left handers were hitting .280. [i wouldn't be surprised if Wunsch came up, if healthy, or a LHP was traded for to strengthen the 'pen]. Marte [13 stranded and 6 scored] and Politte [12 stranded and 7 allowed to score] have been decent. Shingo [esp when used in set up] was stellar as well [9 stranded, 1 allowed to score]. Mike Jackson has been the least successful man in the 'pen in stranding inherited runners. He's allowed 9 runners to score and only stranded 7 for a 44% rate. Whoever replaces Jackson [via trade hopefully, or call up Jeff Bajenaru] should be very solid in stranding inherited runners like Cotts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 I know, Neal's ERA is the highest of the bunch. Yet he's leading the staff in one of the most important stats of all----stranding inherited runners. Neal has only allowed 3 inherited runners to score out of the 18 guys who have been on base when he's come in. Tom Gordon is even behind Cotts' 83% rate, allowing 5 runners to score and saving 18 [a 78% rate]. These guys who strand runners are the unsung heroes of the bullpen, yet aren't talked about much. [This is one reason I like my "Sports Weekly" for just this stat] sports weekly must have been following reading my posts... I've defended Neal all year using that stat specifically... --------------- How 'bout that bullpen last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 How 'bout that bullpen last night. It was awesome! They didn't allow a single baserunner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 It's nice that he does noy let inherited runners score and all, but when he starts an inning he gets rocked the majority of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 sports weekly must have been following reading my posts... I've defended Neal all year using that stat specifically... The Cubs must not think it's important. They sent down Beltran though he stranded all 10 guys who were on base when he came in. [at least through Sun's games]. Teams should pull guys like Cotts and Beltran once they put guys on base to start innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 It's nice that he does noy let inherited runners score and all, but when he starts an inning he gets rocked the majority of the time. Actually Ozzie likes to let him get other people out of jams, but he doesn't let Neal get out of his own jams... Neal has allowed 3 inheritted baserunners to score all year... Mike Jackson has let more than 3 runners score that he has inherrited from Neal... Billy koch also abused him for a while when he was here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 It's nice that he does noy let inherited runners score and all, but when he starts an inning he gets rocked the majority of the time. Then he shouldn't start many innings. Or Ozzie have an even quicker hook once a guy gets on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 The Cubs must not think it's important. They sent down Beltran though he stranded all 10 guys who were on base when he came in. [at least through Sun's games]. Teams should pull guys like Cotts and Beltran once they put guys on base to start innings. The Cubs are a scapegoating franchise... Beltran allowed a big inning vs. the Cards; his fate was sealed... If they could send Wendal Kim to AAA they would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 Actually Ozzie likes to let him get other people out of jams, but he doesn't let Neal get out of his own jams... Ozzie can't afford to let Cotts struggle and "learn" to get out of jams he has made. Esp. not now in late July in a pennant race. The best way to handle Neal is to put him in when runners are on [where he's proven successful] and take him out the first sign of trouble [usually when he starts on inning] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 The Cubs are a scapegoating franchise... Beltran allowed a big inning vs. the Cards; his fate was sealed... If they could send Wendal Kim to AAA they would. I just used the Cubs as an example of how teams can undervalue a relievers contributions. Beltran walked a lot of guys, but he gave up less hits than a "normal" pen guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 He may have not allowed many inherited runners to score, but have you looked at how many runnes Neil has put on base himself? Walks and wild pitches are a strong part of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 He may have not allowed many inherited runners to score, but have you looked at how many runnes Neil has put on base himself? Walks and wild pitches are a strong part of him His WHIP is only higher than Shingo and Marte's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 His WHIP is only higher than Shingo and Marte's Nicely put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 You think the Cubs would trade Beltran then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 You think the Cubs would trade Beltran then? Umm no, he is wrong and has a bright future ahead of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 He may have not allowed many inherited runners to score, but have you looked at how many runnes Neil has put on base himself? That's up to Ozzie to take him out before too much damage has been done. [And the guys coming in have to be able to strand runners as well]. IMO, it's harder to find guys who pitch well w/ runners on base. This is a good trait for a rookie to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 His WHIP is only higher than Shingo and Marte's Shingo whip is 0.81 Marte's is 1.04 Jackson's is 1.39 Politte's is 1.39 Cotts is 1.41 Adkins is 1.66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Umm no, he is wrong and has a bright future ahead of him. Who is wrong? Maybe I am reading your reply incorrectly, but I have no idea what you mean. Beltran could be had for a decent minor leaguer I bet. (Maybe they could trade Mike Jackson for him? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Share Posted July 22, 2004 You think the Cubs would trade Beltran then? No. But the point is they sent him down when Liecster? probably won't do as well as Beltran did, esp in stranding runners. A key bullpen stat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Who is wrong? Maybe I am reading your reply incorrectly, but I have no idea what you mean. Beltran could be had for a decent minor leaguer I bet. (Maybe they could trade Mike Jackson for him? ) Oops i meant to say that he is young not wrong. I have heard he is in there plans to be there closer of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 No. But the point is they sent him down when Liecster? probably won't do as well as Beltran did, esp in stranding runners. A key bullpen stat WHO won't do as well as Beltran did? You guys confuse me with your fragmented statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 WHO won't do as well as Beltran did? You guys confuse me with your fragmented statements. Liecster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 22, 2004 Share Posted July 22, 2004 Okok.. sorry. My brain must be scrambled right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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