Rogue Waves

[Texsox]

'Rogue waves' reported by mariners get scientific backing

 

PARIS (AFP) - European satellites have given confirmation to terrified mariners who describe seeing freak waves as tall as 10-storey buildings, the European Space Agency (ESA) said.

 

"Rogue waves" have been the anecdotal cause behind scores of sinkings of vessels as large as container ships and supertankers over the past two decades.

 

 

But evidence to support this has been sketchy, and many marine scientists have clung to statistical models that say monstrous deviations from the normal sea state only occur once every thousand years.

. . . more at link

[kapkomet]

I was reading (maybe it was this article or an offshoot), about cruise ships getting blasted by 100 foot waves. After going on a cruise, thinking about that is SCARY.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Cool, cool stuff.

 

The oceans rock!

[Texsox]

I was surprised by the number of container ships that go down each year.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I was surprised by the number of container ships that go down each year.

True, but the vast majority are not lost to the mysterious rogue waves. Lots of old ships in the world fleet - vessels that won't be certified as seaworthy by most nations, but the owners register them in foreign countries with lax regulations to get a few more years out of them.

 

Plus the captains are all coked up or drunk off their asses...

[Texsox]

The legend lives on from the chippewa on down

Of the big lake they called ’gitche gumee’

The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead

When the skies of november turn gloomy

With a load of iron ore twenty-six thousand tons more

Than the edmund fitzgerald weighed empty.

That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed

When the gales of november came early.

 

The ship was the pride of the american side

Coming back from some mill in wisconsin

As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most

With a crew and good captain well seasoned

Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms

When they left fully loaded for cleveland

And later that night when the ship’s bell rang

Could it be the north wind they’d been feelin’?

The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound

And a wave broke over the railing

And every man knew, as the captain did too,

T’was the witch of november come stealin’.

The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait

When the gales of november came slashin’.

When afternoon came it was freezin’ rain

In the face of a hurricane west wind.

 

When suppertime came, the old cook came on deck sayin’.

Fellas, it’s too rough to feed ya.

At seven p.m. a main hatchway caved in, he said

Fellas, it’s been good t’know ya

The captain wired in he had water comin’ in

And the good ship and crew was in peril.

And later that night when his lights went outta sight

Came the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald.

 

Does any one know where the love of God goes

When the waves turn the minutes to hours?

The searches all say they’d have made whitefish bay

If they’d put fifteen more miles behind her.

They might have split up or they might have capsized;

May have broke deep and took water.

And all that remains is the faces and the names

Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.

 

Lake huron rolls, superior sings

In the rooms of her ice-water mansion.

Old michigan steams like a young man’s dreams;

The islands and bays are for sportsmen.

And farther below lake ontario

Takes in what lake erie can send her,

And the iron boats go as the mariners all know

With the gales of november remembered.

 

In a musty old hall in detroit they prayed,

In the maritime sailors’ cathedral.

The church bell chimed till it rang twenty-nine times

For each man on the edmund fitzgerald.

The legend lives on from the chippewa on down

Of the big lake they call ’gitche gumee’.

Superior, they said, never gives up her dead

When the gales of november come early!

[southsider2k5]

Edmund Fitzgerald

[FlaSoxxJim]

Edmund Fitzgerald  

An awesome beer from our friends at Cleveland's Great Lakes Brewing Company, no?

 

Note to self: Damn, I should have done up Great Lakes in a beer geek thread for during the most excellent trouncin' of the Tribe.

[Queen Prawn]

The legend lives on from the chippewa on down

Of the big lake they called ’gitche gumee’

The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead

When the skies of november turn gloomy

With a load of iron ore twenty-six thousand tons more

Than the edmund fitzgerald weighed empty.

That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed

When the gales of november came early.

 

The ship was the pride of the american side

Coming back from some mill in wisconsin

As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most

With a crew and good captain well seasoned

Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms

When they left fully loaded for cleveland

And later that night when the ship’s bell rang

Could it be the north wind they’d been feelin’?

The wind in the wires made a tattle-tale sound

And a wave broke over the railing

And every man knew, as the captain did too,

T’was the witch of november come stealin’.

The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait

When the gales of november came slashin’.

When afternoon came it was freezin’ rain

In the face of a hurricane west wind.

 

When suppertime came, the old cook came on deck sayin’.

Fellas, it’s too rough to feed ya.

At seven p.m. a main hatchway caved in, he said

Fellas, it’s been good t’know ya

The captain wired in he had water comin’ in

And the good ship and crew was in peril.

And later that night when his lights went outta sight

Came the wreck of the edmund fitzgerald.

 

Does any one know where the love of God goes

When the waves turn the minutes to hours?

The searches all say they’d have made whitefish bay

If they’d put fifteen more miles behind her.

They might have split up or they might have capsized;

May have broke deep and took water.

And all that remains is the faces and the names

Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.

 

Lake huron rolls, superior sings

In the rooms of her ice-water mansion.

Old michigan steams like a young man’s dreams;

The islands and bays are for sportsmen.

And farther below lake ontario

Takes in what lake erie can send her,

And the iron boats go as the mariners all know

With the gales of november remembered.

 

In a musty old hall in detroit they prayed,

In the maritime sailors’ cathedral.

The church bell chimed till it rang twenty-nine times

For each man on the edmund fitzgerald.

The legend lives on from the chippewa on down

Of the big lake they call ’gitche gumee’.

Superior, they said, never gives up her dead

When the gales of november come early!

I bought the CD with that song, just for that song. I also have about 1/2 dozen books on the sinking and have read many websites about the crew and the sinking. One book pissed me off so much that I refused to finish it.

 

Everytime I hear that song, I choke up a little. My dad was offered a job on the ships right before this happened, but didn't take it - he said it was too long for him to be away from home. And after the US Steel closed, he regretted it a bit.

[southsider2k5]

An awesome beer from our friends at Cleveland's Great Lakes Brewing Company, no?

 

Note to self:  Damn, I should have done up Great Lakes in a beer geek thread for during the most excellent trouncin' of the Tribe.

Haven't had it... but that is a great folk song.

 

And on that beer note, what is stopping you from making another Beer thread? In fact, do it!!!!

[FlaSoxxJim]

I bought the CD with that song, just for that song.  I also have about 1/2 dozen books on the sinking and have read many websites about the crew and the sinking.  One book pissed me off so much that I refused to finish it.

 

Everytime I hear that song, I choke up a little.  My dad was offered a job on the ships right before this happened, but didn't take it - he said it was too long for him to be away from home.  And after the US Steel closed, he regretted it a bit.

The oceanographic research institution I work at were the ones that headed up the 1994 submersible expedition on the Fitzgerald.

 

here's a research capsule from NOAA:

Exploring the Edmund Fitzgerald

 

One of the Clelia’s most memorable missions was its survey of the wreckage of the Edmund Fitzgerald, a 729-ft iron-ore carrier that sank in Lake Superior on Nov. 10, 1975. In 1994, a team of HARBOR BRANCH researchers used the Clelia to explore the ship, obtain detailed photo documentation and try to determine the cause of the Fitzgerald’s demise. Over the course of six dives in three days, the Clelia and its crew documented the wreck and discovered some interesting aspects of the carrier that shed some light on the circumstances of its sinking. For instance, a 30-ft deep furrow in the lake floor suggested that the bow struck bottom with considerable force, suggesting that the ship sank very quickly. The researchers theorized that the stern section, which lies upside down and 200 ft away from the bow of the ship, did not separate from the bow until the ship hit bottom. Other evidence suggested that the propeller was still turning as the ship went down.

 

You can also buy this spiffy video of the expedition that we put out a couple years ago.

[/shameless plug]

[Texsox]

Jim, what would have caused it to propel itself to the bottom? I thought the main theory was the bow and stern being lifted at the same time by different waves and the load weight causing the ship to crack in half.

 

Would a bow full of water have caused the damage cited?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Jim, what would have caused it to propel itself to the bottom? I thought the main theory was the bow and stern being lifted at the same time by different waves and the load weight causing the ship to crack in half.

 

Would a bow full of water have caused the damage cited?

Sounds like QueenPrawn is better suited to give the most up-to-date theories than I am. I do know that our sub expedituion changed a lot of thought as to what happened but I don't know whether all of our speculations have held up over time.

 

Queenie...?

[Queen Prawn]

Sounds like QueenPrawn is better suited to give the most up-to-date theories than I am.  I do know that our sub expedituion changed a lot of thought as to what happened but I don't know whether all of our speculations have held up over time.

 

Queenie...?

One theory (that I don't buy nor do most Great Lakes sailors) is that the hatches weren't sealed properly causing water to flood the holds and thusly sink the ship. Sailors from that time said that even is no clamps are securing the hatch, they won't move enough to flood the hold as stated - they each weigh in excess of a ton. There is no denial that the hatches didn't have all clamps tightened, but most of the clamps on each were. There might have been water coming in, but not enough to sink the ship. Sorry, but I am going to take the word of sailors over the Coast Guard on this one.

 

Another theory are the '3 sisters' which is related to what started this thread - three monstrous waves, in succesion hitting the ship causing it to capsize (?) and sink.

 

Another is that there were repairs that were desperately needed and going through a storm like that exasorbated the problems causing cracking on the hull and it finally gave way when the fore and aft where in waves and the center of the ship was actually out of the water. - for the most part this is the one that I believe.

 

Another one is that the back end was raised so high that the front end was driven into the lake bed.

 

Another is that the initial injuries to the ship was because he was too close to he shoals and actually bottomed out causing cracks and gashes which when put through the stresses of the storm eventually gave way, breaking the ship in half.

 

Another is that the load shifted because of the water and movement causing the list that was reported and eventually if fatally shifted causing the wreck.

 

Please keep in mind that I am doing this from memory so some parts of the theories might be off a bit.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Wow, I'm truly impressed.

[Queen Prawn]

Wow, I'm truly impressed. 

For some reason or another I've been obsessed with it since I first heard the song. I think that was because I thought it was about something long ago and when I found out it was a year (almost to the day) before I was born, I was hooked, I wanted to know as many answers to who, what, where, when, why and how to prevent it.

 

From there, I got into books about Great Lakes wrecks in general.

[Queen Prawn]

Does anyone know what happened to the movie that was supposed to come out about the wreck of 'Big Fitz?' There is a website for it, but it seems like it hasn't been updated in ages.

[EvilJester99]

I really enjoy watching the history channel and the discovery channel when they are doing searches for sunken ships and they tell impressive stories behind it all.