1549 Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Wave of Kidnappings Continues By PAUL GARWOOD BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Gunmen kidnapped the head of an Iraqi government-owned construction company in Baghdad on Saturday, a brazen daylight attack in a new wave of hostage-taking across the country. The kidnapping occurred a day after a senior Egyptian diplomat was snatched as he came out of a mosque, and suggested insurgents were growing bolder, particularly since kidnappers scored a stunning victory by forcing the Philippines to withdraw troops to save the life of a Filipino truck driver. Iraqi Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi urged Egypt not to bow to the demands of the kidnappers. "It is time for us to close ranks to fight terrorism. There is no way to budge to terrorists and give them what they want," Allawi said during a visit to Syria. "The only way to deal with terrorism is to promote justice and to close ranks, and we hope Egypt and the Egyptian government will act accordingly." In other violence, a U.S. Marine died early Saturday of wounds sustained Friday during clashes in the Al-Anbar province, a volatile area that stretches west from Baghdad to the Syrian border, the military said. The military did not release the identity of the Marine, the 903rd U.S. military fatality in Iraq since the war began according to an Associated Press count. Gunmen in three cars attacked a convoy carrying the chief of police for west Baghdad on Saturday as he passed near the town of Mahmoudiya south of Baghdad. Two bodyguards were killed, but Brig. Sabah Fahad escaped unharmed, said Mahmoudiya hospital director, Dr. Dawoud al-Taie. A rocket exploded in the downtown Jubairya district in the northern city of Samarra, killing one man and injuring three other civilians early Saturday, police Maj. Sadoun al-Dulaimi said. It was unclear who fired the rocket. Saboteurs also set off two explosions on an oil pipeline 12 miles south of Samarra late Friday, police Capt. Khaled Abdul-Amir said. The 125-mile pipeline stretches from al-Doura oil refinery in Baghdad to Beiji, north of Samarra. The extent of the damage was unclear. Associated Press Television News footage showed bright orange flames and a thick black plume of smoke billowing from the ruptured pipeline. the country have waged a violent 15-month campaign of sabotage, bombings, kidnappings and other attacks against local officials and coalition forces. In the latest kidnapping, unidentified men riding in two cars blocked Raad Adnan's vehicle as he was driving through southeastern Baghdad on Saturday and snatched him, said Interior Ministry spokesman Adnan Abdel-Rahman. Adnan is the general director of Al-Mansour Contracting Co., a government-owned company that carries out construction contracts for Iraqi government ministries. Adnan, a construction engineer, was a member of the Baath party and helped build some of Saddam Hussein's presidential palaces. On Friday, militants kidnapped Egyptian diplomat Mohammed Mamdouh Helmi Qutb as he left a mosque and demanded his country abandon any plans to send security experts to support Iraq's new government, according to a video broadcast on the Al-Jazeera television station. He was believed to be the first foreign diplomat kidnapped in Iraq. An Egyptian official told the AP on Saturday that his country's mission to Egypt has not yet been contacted by the militants, a previously unknown group called "The Lions of Allah Brigade." "Iraqi authorities have contacted the Egyptian mission and offered help, but as yet there have been no negotiations or mediations with the kidnappers," said Badr el-din de-Souki. The rash of kidnappings, which also included the abduction of seven foreign truck drivers Wednesday, has threatened Iraq's efforts to rebuild the country and persuade more governments to commit troops to the coalition here. Iraqi interim Public Works Minister Nasreen Berwari denounced the kidnappings as "inhumane and savage" attacks on Iraq's "stability and well-being." "This problem can only be solved when the international community as a whole supports Iraq to sustain its security for its people and the people who are coming to help Iraq, and they are very much needed at this stage," she told reporters. The militant group holding the seven truck drivers announced new demands in a video broadcast Friday, calling on the hostages' Kuwaiti employer to pay compensation for those killed by U.S. forces in the city of Fallujah and demanding the release of all Iraqi detainees in Kuwaiti and U.S. prisons. The group, calling itself "The Holders of the Black Banners," had originally demanded the company stop doing business in Iraq and that the hostages' countries withdraw their citizens. The group threatened to begin beheading the three Kenyans, three Indians and an Egyptian every 72 hours starting Saturday night. "I'm trying to get in contact government officials to find out it can do. I hope it's doing the best it can," Talal Mohamed, a brother of hostage Jalal Awadh, said in Kenya. The new demands in Friday's tape were almost certain to go unmet, but that tape did not appear to repeat the earlier beheading threat and bore no other specified ultimatum. The militants gave the company a 48-hour deadline, but it was unclear if that meant the initial deadline was extended until Sunday. Rana Abu-Zaineh, an official with the Kuwait and Gulf Link Transport, Co., said the company was negotiating with the militants and was confident the hostages would be freed. She did not provide details. In India, External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh said the insurgents appear to be motivated by money, not politics, and that the victims may be released soon. Militants in recent months have kidnapped roughly 70 foreigners in their campaign to force countries to withdraw troops and to scare away contractors working on reconstruction projects. At least three hostages have been beheaded. ----------------------- I am no expert in terrorism, but it seems to me that the terrorists are not going to help their cause by kidnapping Iraqi's. Even if the victims are on our side they are still Iraqis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 24, 2004 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Funny thing, now that countries have started knuckling under to this, the kidnapping rate has increased almost exponetially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 I don't know that it has increased exponentialy - without doing the math, not sure it has increased at all - it has been steady and consistent people do not like their country being invaded and they react as they are able the inability to comtemplate all of the possible consequences of an action speaks to the failure of those who planned this whole thing - blinded by ideology is not the way to proceed in matters of this nature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 I don't know that it has increased exponentialy - without doing the math, not sure it has increased at all - it has been steady and consistent people do not like their country being invaded and they react as they are able the inability to comtemplate all of the possible consequences of an action speaks to the failure of those who planned this whole thing - blinded by ideology is not the way to proceed in matters of this nature It has been 8 men in just a few days... Blinded by idiology is exactly what we are facing. Fanatics who are so blinded they are violating their own faith, even by the preachings of Al Sadr, who is a sworn enemy of the US. Even he has declared the beheadings and kidnappings "unislamic". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 It has been 8 men in just a few days... Blinded by idiology is exactly what we are facing. Fanatics who are so blinded they are violating their own faith, even by the preachings of Al Sadr, who is a sworn enemy of the US. Even he has declared the beheadings and kidnappings "unislamic". without a graph that shows that 8 in 3 days represents an increase rather than a continuation, I leave that question open without opinion. as for the rest: Blinded by ideology or acting to defend one's country? Blinded by acting in regards to what one sees as a cultural war? All depends on perspective. And whatever one thinks, this response was predictable and easily seen by all who wanted to look ahead at reality rather than theory. Blinded by ideology... cough cough Cheney cough cough Wolfowitz cough cough add the names in here. I have always ascribed to what Gandhi said - an eye for an eye makes everyone blind. And what Jesus said - those who live by sword die by the sword. And what God said - put no trust no war horses and chariots. And I condemn the use of violence by all sides. All sides. All sides. There were other ways once... certain actions compelled predictable reactions and those who sow violence do reap the whirlwind and that applies to everyone here, "our" side as well as "their" side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 ok, then, what do we do? Just sit and wait for "them" to have "their" way with "us"? When I was in Morocco, I found the average citizen on the street in that country to be some of the nicest people in the world. They welcomed us into their markets, of course because we were Americans and had "money" (well in college we didn't but oh well), but at the same time, they were so eager to share their culture and way of life. I learned more in that 20 days then many other parts of my life. Ideology only means something when our cultures start battling back and forth, because at the heart of it all, it matters not. A good "Islamist" knows this, as well as a good "Christian". So again, I ask, what would you have us as a nation do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 We have not been able to elimate crime in our country, how do we think we can eliminate crime in others? Look at all the drug related murders around our country, how would we solve them? Rapes, assaults, robberies, et.al. are problems everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 We have not been able to elimate crime in our country, how do we think we can eliminate crime in others? Look at all the drug related murders around our country, how would we solve them? Rapes, assaults, robberies, et.al. are problems everywhere. Good points. And all too often, we turn a blind eye. Before I speak too much, cw is writing a novel I see ... so before I go on, I will await... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 ok, then, what do we do? Just sit and wait for "them" to have "their" way with "us"? When I was in Morocco, I found the average citizen on the street in that country to be some of the nicest people in the world. They welcomed us into their markets, of course because we were Americans and had "money" (well in college we didn't but oh well), but at the same time, they were so eager to share their culture and way of life. I learned more in that 20 days then many other parts of my life. Ideology only means something when our cultures start battling back and forth, because at the heart of it all, it matters not. A good "Islamist" knows this, as well as a good "Christian". So again, I ask, what would you have us as a nation do? what would I ahve had us do? I posted extensively on that before the invasion of Iraq. I do not think the only choices are violence or surrender. There are other ways to respond and I am not going to be repeating all of that now, it is all in the archives, to repeat those discussions will not shed any new light at this time, just more heat. I am not punting the question. I have posted extensively on it. The debacle this thing has become was forseeen by many. There were so many other ways. But I am not going to repeat all that has been said before because it is all there anyway. That you, my good friend, ask, what other ways were there with the stark contrasts that you presented as the only options, says to me that all I will respond is check the archives because I am not going to go through all that again. I would be fascinated to hear your tales of Morocco! I envy you that experience! That is a conversation that I feel like pursuing because that will be new ground, not a replowing of old ground. And besides, going to Morocco is just plain cool and I'd love to hear about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 I rarely, if ever go through the archives - I just don't have that much time, frankly. So... I'll go another direction, but not now. For some reason I am really tired tonight, which doesn't happen all that often. So maybe more novels tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 Kap...there are a few things the US (more Bush and the neo-cons) could have done re: the Iraq war. 1. Don't use faulty intelligence. When you're paying (and still paying) hundreds of millions of dollars to a known embezzler and a group who has been discredited a lot in the past, don't make that the crux of your argument because the value of the intel probably isn't all too great. Story on that: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0222-04.htm 2. Don't bulls*** America on WMD threats. WMD are a serious thing. I mean, look what happened with Aun Shinrikyo in Tokyo a few years ago with the sarin. In the UN speech that Powell gave, it ended up being plagiarized from 1991 graduate school work (Downing Street and the UK have admitted to that blunder). In fact, the morning of the speech Powell declared that he would not read the report to the UN and that it was "bulls***". Story on that: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,968581,00.html Instead, if you want to invade because he's a ruthless dictator, build your case on human rights abuses. Granted, I don't know how much weight the US would have on that because we gave Saddam most of the weapons that he used to slaughter his own people and create his iron grip on Iraq. (According to PBS, during the 1960s, the CIA was heavily involved with Saddam and putting him in power. The CIA even helped him eliminate enemies to him coming to power. The case for human rights abuses, however, doesn't carry as much weight with the American public and they would not be too apt to send our troops over there for that. Story on US weapons sold to Iraq: http://www.progressive.org/0901/anth0498.html Story on Neo-Cons saying WMD's were just the reason they thought everyone could agree upon to get behind the war: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html 3. Don't give no compete contracts to a company whom the VP used to head. It's more than a bit suspicious that the company whom Cheney headed gets all these sweetheart deals *cough crony capitalism cough* I find it interesting that Cheney still draws a salary from the company as well. Stories on Halliburton in Iraq: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/new...ics/8726376.htm http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/20/....html?from=top5 4. CIA tried planting WMD and were busted Story: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9 That's what I came up with off the top of my head...more to come later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 And Kap, here's a link to an article with good ideas as what to do now that we're in this mess: http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=2911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 Kap...there are a few things the US (more Bush and the neo-cons) could have done re: the Iraq war. 1. Don't use faulty intelligence. When you're paying (and still paying) hundreds of millions of dollars to a known embezzler and a group who has been discredited a lot in the past, don't make that the crux of your argument because the value of the intel probably isn't all too great. Story on that: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0222-04.htm 2. Don't bulls*** America on WMD threats. WMD are a serious thing. I mean, look what happened with Aun Shinrikyo in Tokyo a few years ago with the sarin. In the UN speech that Powell gave, it ended up being plagiarized from 1991 graduate school work (Downing Street and the UK have admitted to that blunder). In fact, the morning of the speech Powell declared that he would not read the report to the UN and that it was "bulls***". Story on that: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,968581,00.html Instead, if you want to invade because he's a ruthless dictator, build your case on human rights abuses. Granted, I don't know how much weight the US would have on that because we gave Saddam most of the weapons that he used to slaughter his own people and create his iron grip on Iraq. (According to PBS, during the 1960s, the CIA was heavily involved with Saddam and putting him in power. The CIA even helped him eliminate enemies to him coming to power. The case for human rights abuses, however, doesn't carry as much weight with the American public and they would not be too apt to send our troops over there for that. Story on US weapons sold to Iraq: http://www.progressive.org/0901/anth0498.html Story on Neo-Cons saying WMD's were just the reason they thought everyone could agree upon to get behind the war: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html 3. Don't give no compete contracts to a company whom the VP used to head. It's more than a bit suspicious that the company whom Cheney headed gets all these sweetheart deals *cough crony capitalism cough* I find it interesting that Cheney still draws a salary from the company as well. Stories on Halliburton in Iraq: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030606.html http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/new...ics/8726376.htm http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/20/....html?from=top5 4. CIA tried planting WMD and were busted Story: http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9 That's what I came up with off the top of my head...more to come later. Apu...believe it or not, I agree with you 100%! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 On the other hand...most of the articles I have read on antiwar.com are complete bulls**t!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted July 25, 2004 Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 Speaking of Morocco, I read in article in Friday's Times (I think it was friday) about an African country (I believe it was Morocco) building 20 government sponsored masques in rural parts of the country. Why? you ask. the lack of Masques in those areas has forced good law abiding Muslim Moroccans to attend illegal masques that teach radical Islam. I thought I would bring this up, because in a region of terror, poverty, and despair, this is proof that there are people working for a solution. You can't supress terrorism, the only way to defeat it is to eliminate the need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 You can't supress terrorism, the only way to defeat it is to eliminate the need. that is the most intelligent thing that will be posted in this decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted July 25, 2004 Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 that is the most intelligent thing that will be posted in this decade. thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 You can't supress terrorism, the only way to defeat it is to eliminate the need. Amen. Wow, that may be the best thing I've ever read on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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