with tears, watching Al Gore

[Texsox]

No Tex ... that wasn't the point.  I never said that quote... I think there was a mistake in editing.  And that's fine... I was just trying to clarify because I never said that and if you look at the way it's quoted it appears that I did.

 

It's probably just a misunderstanding.

I wrote the comment that appears under CW's name. I took his post with your quote and added his quote and added my comment.

 

That should not be under CW's name.

 

It should have

 

Kap's quote

 

CW's Quote

 

Not enough.

[kapkomet]

ummm, I'm lost but that isn't the first time.

 

 

It's not that important.

 

Edit:

 

Ding! I got it now. LMAO.

Edited July 29, 2004 by kapkomet

[Texsox]

Hmmm.. something's missing from this thread..  rolleyeyes.gif

s***, I think I accidentaly edited CW's post not added a new one. My mistake. I hope CW can fix his post.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

[Steff]

s***, I think I accidentaly edited CW's post not added a new one. My mistake. I hope CW can fix his post.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

Naa.. it wasn't just a quote.. it was a pretty lengthy post. You didn't do anything. It obviously was just a figment of my imagionation...

 

rolleyeyes.gif

[cwsox]

s***, I think I accidentaly edited CW's post not added a new one. My mistake. I hope CW can fix his post.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

what you probably did was click on edit rather than quote -

 

so you eliminated my post in typing yours rather than respond to mine quoted

 

that was one hell of a good post too

 

no harm meant, no foul

 

that's cool, it happens, and maybe later I will have another go at that but I am at work now

 

but as you remember, I was citing you as someone who had wisdom and wanted others to have your same wisdom - and you elliminated my pointing to you as a wise person -

 

 

why not go back and delete that post or show that you accidently edited it -

[kapkomet]

 

Well damn. I wanted to see cw's post.

[cwsox]

I will try again to post what Tex accidently deleted/edited out before.

 

I was reacting to this type of statement:

 

As for Kerry, I just think he's a moron.

 

I am not picking on the person who wrote that because that person is my friend and he knows it.

 

Now this time I am going to say it more plainly though. What a gathering of hypocrites we have here. That statement above got a "preach it brother" response. Any type of invective directed against Kerry or Gore or Clinton or any Democrat gets that type of response - from the people who really need to have mirrors where their computer screen is. When something is posted that criticises Bush, the same people who love to dash off the juvenile insults against Democrats will respond with "it is sad to see so much hate directed against Bush" or "more Bush hating" or "more Bush bashing, it is so sad" or "I can't believe people have such hate." Hypocrites.

 

Bush is, to me, one of the worst presidents ever.

 

That is not hate. Tex has tried to point out in other circumstances that just because he criticises the US or Israel does not mean he hates Israel or the US. When he makes that point, others seem toi understand. But to say something critical of Bush results in the worst of the and the rolleyeyes.gif and the "oh such hate" bulls*** while the mocking of Kerry and Gore and Clinton is considered good form.

 

It gets tiresome.

 

I certainly don't hate Bush as a man but I despise all that his administration stands for and has done. I have articulated specific policy differences often and that is considered "hate" while ever third grade taunt against a Democrat gets high fives.

 

Someone mentioned Eminem, that if Gore had been elected Eminem would have been exiled to Siberia or some such over the top bulls***. It was Eminem who wrote the immortal words "f*** you Mrs. Cheney, f*** you Tipper Gore." The opening video on the Anger Managment Tour was a brilliant compliation of some of the most self riighteous self aggrandizing moralizing from Republicans and Democrats alike, as well as the media. Em calls it as he sees it, and it was powerful, so powerful that I got a copy of that video. And Em has very specific reasons for the comments about Lynne Cheney and Tipper Gore. And God Bless Eminem, he has also consistently made plain his total disgust with Bush. "Square Dance" is one of the most amazing musical and lyrical commentaries - complete with rodeo music and do si dos - written in the last 20 years by one of the few musicians who is out there speaking about issues and politics. And God Bless Eminem, he is a guiding original force behind the Rapper's Summits which are out there getting kids registered to vote, and vote against Bush. And that is not "Bush hating." It is not "anyone but Bush." It is because of specific and continued and actual policy differences and deep concerns about where this country is going.

 

Let me add that almost all of us here at SoxTalk are people of privilege. There are a lot of people here who are in fact posting on the computers that Mom and/or dad bought. Others of us - such as myself - have white coller jobs where we have internet access and the time to be here 24/7 or as close to it as possible. There are not so many factory workers here because on the line you don't get internet access. We don't have many unemployed here simply because of the economics. Most of us have never known poverty. Most of us have never been the victims of racism. There is a different America out there than the one that most of us interact with. Too many of us look at our own lives and think that is what life is. It's not. The very fact that we have time to obsess about a sports team, abvout a game, about playing, says that we are at a point of luxury and privilege and financial security that is beyond the comprehension of most of the world and many of our fellow Americans. Life is more than who we are.

[kapkomet]

The "preach it brother" was meant more at he's sickened at all the candidates available this time around then more for John Kerry is a moron.

 

I really don't think John Kerry is a moron. I just don't like what he stands for (much like you just said about GWB, my views are the same for Kerry). Does that change the tone of what you say (well at least toward me... I rarely say some of the things you say above... sometimes I do, but not quite the way you posted it)?

 

Edit: I try to pick on the issues, not the men. I hope that in general my posts stay that way.

Edited July 29, 2004 by kapkomet

[southsider2k5]

I am not picking on the person who wrote that because that person is my friend and he knows it.

 

Now this time I am going to say it more plainly though. What a gathering of hypocrites we have here. That statement above got a "preach it brother" response. Any type of invective directed against Kerry or Gore or Clinton or any Democrat gets that type of response - from the people who really need to have mirrors where their computer screen is. When something is posted that criticises Bush, the same people who love to dash off the juvenile insults against Democrats will respond with "it is sad to see so much hate directed against Bush" or "more Bush hating" or "more Bush bashing, it is so sad" or "I can't believe people have such hate." Hypocrites.

 

And what I see much more often than that are people who just simply avoid those kind of threads with no comment, only to have it "bump"ed later on by people looking for comments on them. When that can of worms gets opened, it doesn't surprise me that people fire back. Hate gets spewed plenty by the people on both sides of the fence. No one side is exclusive to any of this. I have seen hateful things said to and about people while debating just about every topic under the sun. It isn't exclusive to the politics stuff either. Look at the ignorance that has been spewed over the last few days on the mainboard. That has nothing to do with the election at all, and yet it still happens. It is an endictment of peoples maturity, not of their political affliliation. I think people should look past the topics debated, and see that it is a bigger problem than being republican or democrat or whatever.

 

Bush is, to me, one of the worst presidents ever.

 

That is not hate. Tex has tried to point out in other circumstances that just because he criticises the US or Israel does not mean he hates Israel or the US. When he makes that point, others seem toi understand. But to say something critical of Bush results in the worst of the  and the  and the "oh such hate" bulls*** while the mocking of Kerry and Gore and Clinton is considered good form.

 

It gets tiresome.

 

I certainly don't hate Bush as a man but I despise all that his administration stands for and has done. I have articulated specific policy differences often and that is considered "hate" while ever third grade taunt against a Democrat gets high fives.

 

Someone mentioned Eminem, that if Gore had been elected Eminem would have been exiled to Siberia or some such over the top bulls***. It was Eminem who wrote the immortal words "f*** you Mrs. Cheney, f*** you Tipper Gore." The opening video on the Anger Managment Tour was a brilliant compliation of some of the most self riighteous self aggrandizing moralizing from Republicans and Democrats alike, as well as the media. Em calls it as he sees it, and it was powerful, so powerful that I got a copy of that video. And Em has very specific reasons for the comments about Lynne Cheney and Tipper Gore. And God Bless Eminem, he has also consistently made plain his total disgust with Bush. "Square Dance" is one of the most amazing musical and lyrical commentaries - complete with rodeo music and do si dos - written in the last 20 years by one of the few musicians who is out there speaking about issues and politics. And God Bless Eminem, he is a guiding original force behind the Rapper's Summits which are out there getting kids registered to vote, and vote against Bush. And that is not "Bush hating." It is not "anyone but Bush." It is because of specific and continued and actual policy differences and deep concerns about where this country is going.

 

I believe you are totally misreading Gleason's statement about Eminem. I think he can't understand your respect of a woman who wants to censor one of your favorite artists. He made an obvious exaggeration about sending him to Siberia, and I don't quite see how you couldn't read it as such. Tipper Gore made numerous attemps and a big public campaign to have groups like Two Live Crew and Anthrax pulled from the shelf, and Em would certianly fall in the range of her censorship targets. I believe he was trying to tell you it is kind of contradictary to have so much respect for a person who is so conradictary to your beliefs, nothing more.

 

Let me add that almost all of us here at SoxTalk are people of privilege. There are a lot of people here who are in fact posting on the computers that Mom and/or dad bought. Others of us - such as myself - have white coller jobs where we have internet access and the time to be here 24/7 or as close to it as possible. There are not so many factory workers here because on the line you don't get internet access. We don't have many unemployed here simply because of the economics. Most of us have never known poverty. Most of us have never been the victims of racism. There is a different America out there than the one that most of us interact with. Too many of us look at our own lives and think that is what life is. It's not. The very fact that we have time to obsess about a sports team, abvout a game, about playing, says that we are at a point of luxury and privilege and financial security that is beyond the comprehension of most of the world and many of our fellow Americans. Life is more than who we are.

 

Good finish

[cwsox]

I believe you are totally misreading Gleason's statement about Eminem.  I think he can't understand your respect of a woman who wants to censor one of your favorite artists.

Actually, Tipper has said little about Eminem.

 

Lynne Cheney - who has held appointed political office for those whose memory is short - has been a far greater threat to censorship of the arts and said a great deal about Eminem.

 

The post I refered said nothing about Lynne Cheney, only bashed Tipper. One sided bulls***.

 

f*** You Mrs. Cheney. f*** you Tipper Gore. Eminem said both. That half of that gets left out is a curiousty, yes, by those who seem congnitally unable to get that Republicans are involved.

 

And far more so.

 

Which administration is pushing censorship through the FCC right now... is it the one where the name Cheney is involved?

[southsider2k5]

Actually, Tipper has said little about Eminem.

 

Lynne Cheney - who has held appointed political office for those whose memory is short - has been a far greater threat to censorship of the arts and said a great deal about Eminem.

 

The post I refered said nothing about Lynne Cheney, only bashed Tipper.  One sided bulls***.

 

f*** You Mrs. Cheney.  f*** you Tipper Gore.  Eminem said both.  That half of that gets left out is a curiousty, yes, by those who seem congnitally unable to get that Republicans are involved.

 

And far more so.

 

Which administration is pushing censorship through the FCC right now... is it the one where the name Cheney is involved?

Easy killer. You aren't getting this at all. The post had nothing to do about Lynne Cheney. Nothing. It is obvious that you wouldn't like Cheney so why would someone comment on the fact that Cheney is for censorship? That doesn't make any sense at all! There are no contradictions in not liking Cheney and what she stands for, and Eminem. That is probably why she wasn't mentioned. There is no story there. There is a story in extolling the vertues of someone who is against one of the artists you respect most. That is why only Tipper was mentioned. It wasn't some huge conspiracy to piss you off. It was just a simple befuddlement.

 

As I said Tipper crusades were much earlier. Hence the references to the two groups she went after the hardest. Ever since Al has gotten into the national spotlight, her crusade for censorship has been very quiet. So of course she wouldn't be commenting on today's artists. I only said that he would be the type of artist she would target, which I believe is what the poster was questioning you on. I really think you are making a crusade out of a question. Relax a little bit.

[cwsox]

Easy killer.  You aren't getting this at all. The post had nothing to do about Lynne Cheney.  Nothing.

That is exactly the point. One sided partisan bulls***. Discuss Lynne Cheney's previous public service and the things she has said and when she is speaking and when she is quiet. One sided partisan bulls***.

 

Without looking it up, who can tell us what public positions Lynne Cheney has held? More than Tipper... and Lynne Cheney fought for censorship in that position.

 

 

And as I recall, this thread began with a post about Al. To bring in Tipper to trash on her and then be upset about telling the truth about Lynne... interesting.

[kapkomet]

cw...

 

Respectfully, calm down and read all this again, you really are reading right through what ss2k is trying to say...

 

I won't reguritate it cause it's all right here - other then to say the original point had NOTHING to do with Lynne Cheney and yours shouldn't either. We're going back to the mid 90's before Lynne Cheney matters.

 

Now in today's world, you have a point.

 

[LowerCaseRepublican]

CW, the 1980s were ripe for the PMRC and other organizations headed up by former police officers (name escapes me at the moment) who believed that "black high top sneakers" were a sign of Satanic/gang affiliation among other insanely stupid indicators.

 

If you want a good laugh read "Raising PG Kids In an X Rated Society" by Tipper Gore. It's one of the funniest books ever because she misquotes lyrics to songs among other hilarious things. In 2000, Joe Lieberman wanted to introduce a licensing program for concerts. You'd have to clear your set with a government board and then if you passed, you'd be able to play. If not...then you're f***ed. I loved watching the PMRC spike after the Arkansas school shooting when they paraded in family friends etc. who said that "They were fine boys until they started listening to that Two Pack Shaker and Bone Thugs and Harmony."

 

After Columbine, Lieberman led some Dems and Republicans on a witch hunt against Marilyn Manson (by bringing in fake experts like "Rev. Jeff Ling" among others). I happened to be in Denver visiting my brother at the time and the air of censorship hung thick over Ozzfest and whether or not MM would be allowed to play. Fortunately he was allowed to play and it all blew over.

 

Lynne Cheney has blocked funding for certain projects for Universities because they were controversial but in a strong correlation, if the project would aid neo-con movements, she endorsed them. Not saying she did it because it was a neo-con movement helper but there is a strong correlation between the two. In Lynne's defense she has said that the federal government should rightfully cede some of it's powers to states' rights as in the case of gay marriage legislation (which I see as Bush's last ditch attempt to pander to the votes of the Christian Right...something his father didn't do after a war in Iraq led to lowering poll #s)

 

The fact that Powell and his little Puritanical cronies are pandering to the Christian Right does not discount the continued efforts of Tipper's PMRC. The Dems and the GOP have us bent over and are having their way with us.

 

Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under.

--H. L. Mencken

[cwsox]

cw...

 

Respectfully, calm down and read all this again, you really are reading right through what ss2k is trying to say...

 

I won't reguritate it cause it's all right here - other then to say the original point had NOTHING to do with Lynne Cheney and yours shouldn't either.  We're going back to the mid 90's before Lynne Cheney matters.

 

Now in today's world, you have a point.

 

calm down yourself.

 

Lynne Cheney held public office before "the mid 90's before Lynne Cheney matters."

 

The lack of knowledge of the facts helps spin the argument, yes indeed.

[kapkomet]

Damn you can be stubborn.

 

That was not his point - you completely missed it. You turn this into something that it's not, and that's how you win your arguments. You're right about Lynne Cheney, but he's right too, and you're completely missing it.

 

But I'm done talking because you don't want to hear it (read it).

 

:banghead :banghead

[cwsox]

Apu, your Mencken quoite is always apt which is why we should always try and do better.

 

Lieberman, you mention - he did pander on that issue. Since Eminem got brought into this conversation, Em dealt with the Columbine and Manson thing as you well know. In the Anger Management Tour video, Lieberman comes off really badly - a reflection of his pandering on things he knew nothing about.

 

I voted for Gore/Lieberman over Bush/Cheney and I would do it again and again and again. On some issues, evberyoine sucks and Mencken's quote calls us to action. Taking all things together and weighing all in the balance, one does what is best instead of standing aloof and letting everything go to hell.

[cwsox]

Damn you can be stubborn.

 

That was not his point - you completely missed it.  You turn this into something that it's not, and that's how you win your arguments.  You're right about Lynne Cheney, but he's right too, and you're completely missing it.

 

But I'm done talking because you don't want to hear it (read it).

 

:banghead  :banghead

Bulls***, Kap.

 

When someone says

But I'm done talking because you don't want to hear it (read it).

that means I won't agree with you, and that has got to be tough since you are right and I am not, huh? Maybe I think you and 2k4 are completely missing it but it has to me who is wrong because you two never are and can't fathom other perspectives since you have it all together.

 

back at you, to the champs of having to have the last word in a thread.

 

And I could respect you disagreeing wiith me if you didn't say that I am wrong and have completely missed it because I don't agree with you. Can you respect disagreement with you?

[kapkomet]

I SAID YOU WERE RIGHT.

 

"Reading is a comprehension..." Where have I heard that before? Oh, you spew that crap.

 

I don't really give two s***s about whether you or I have the last word. You will, because you will respond to this, and that's fine. You be the bigger man... rolleyeyes.gif rolleyeyes.gif rolleyeyes.gif

 

I simply asked you, using the word RESPECTFULLY (which now you have blown that to bits) go back and read this. And now you're twisting this in more directions than a f***ing tornado. You just cannot fathom that we all can be right in this, can you?

 

You want to call my b****ass out? We can leave this right here, or I can go on...

Edited July 30, 2004 by kapkomet

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Bulls***, Kap.

 

When someone says that means I won't agree with you, and that has got to be tough since you are right and I am not, huh?  Maybe I think you and 2k4 are completely missing it but it has to me who is wrong because you two never are and can't fathom other perspectives since you have it all together.

 

back at you, to the champs of having to have the last word in a thread.

 

And I could respect you disagreeing wiith me if you didn't say that I am wrong and have completely missed it because I don't agree with you.  Can you respect disagreement with you?

Cw, you really should go over the original point again. You may be right in what you have said, but like Kap said, that wasnt the original point. That's all they're trying to say. It doesnt appear that they are trying to attack at all.

[YASNY]

I am not picking on the person who wrote that because that person is my friend and he knows it.

 

Now this time I am going to say it more plainly though. What a gathering of hypocrites we have here. That statement above got a "preach it brother" response. Any type of invective directed against Kerry or Gore or Clinton or any Democrat gets that type of response - from the people who really need to have mirrors where their computer screen is. When something is posted that criticises Bush, the same people who love to dash off the juvenile insults against Democrats will respond with "it is sad to see so much hate directed against Bush" or "more Bush hating" or "more Bush bashing, it is so sad" or "I can't believe people have such hate." Hypocrites.

 

 

For the record, I made that statement so that it would be clearly read as my personal opinion, and not a statement of fact.

[YASNY]

Let me add that almost all of us here at SoxTalk are people of privilege. There are a lot of people here who are in fact posting on the computers that Mom and/or dad bought. Others of us - such as myself - have white coller jobs where we have internet access and the time to be here 24/7 or as close to it as possible. There are not so many factory workers here because on the line you don't get internet access. We don't have many unemployed here simply because of the economics. Most of us have never known poverty. Most of us have never been the victims of racism. There is a different America out there than the one that most of us interact with. Too many of us look at our own lives and think that is what life is. It's not. The very fact that we have time to obsess about a sports team, abvout a game, about playing, says that we are at a point of luxury and privilege and financial security that is beyond the comprehension of most of the world and many of our fellow Americans. Life is more than who we are.

 

 

In response to this, I'm going to go into a little bit more personal history than I feel comfortable doing, but I also feel it's needed. If I can be considered a person of privilege it's because I put myself there. I started a family in 1980 while living in a '67 model 10' x 50' mobile home that I bought for $2700. The winter of 1981, I was an out of work carpenter (thanks to former president Carter's 20% and higher interest rates) with two babies. For a 3 month period of time, I received food stamps to feed my babies. That was the only time I ever received any so called entitlements of any kind. I didn't try to make my living off of the taxpayers via handouts from the Federal Gov't. I worked long and hard and consistently to get from that low point to my rather middle class status today. Any "privileges" I have, I've earned and I resent those that that have achieved some of the same privileges that I enjoy by benefitting from the hard work that I put in while they were sitting on their fat asses drawing entitlement checks.

[YASNY]

Traditional Republicans (smaller government, keep government out of peoples' personal lives except when necessary i.e. warrants etc.) would be good to appoint people to the bench.  There are a lot of areas where traditional Republicans (as compared to neo-conservatives) agree with the left wing (not neo-liberals).  They don't agree economically all the time but in civil liberties and personal freedoms, they both are quite progressive in that regard.

 

And I concur that I don't trust GWB with the Constitution.  (I can't trust Ashcroft either...opening up medical records of women who had abortions is OK but it is wrong to do background checks to see if people on the terrorist watch list purchased guns is a big no no)

 

This election is looking s***tier and s***tier.

We seem to be agreeing on more and more as time goes by ..... and quite frankly, that scares me!

[Texsox]

In response to this, I'm going to go into a little bit more personal history than I feel comfortable doing, but I also feel it's needed. If I can be considered a person of privilege it's because I put myself there.  I started a family in 1980 while living in a '67 model 10' x 50' mobile home that I bought for $2700.  The winter of 1981,  I was an out of work carpenter (thanks to former president Carter's 20% and higher interest rates) with two babies.  For a 3 month period of time, I received food stamps to feed my babies.  That was the only time I ever received any so called entitlements of any kind.  I didn't try to make my living off of the taxpayers via handouts from the Federal Gov't.  I worked long and hard and consistently to get from that low point to my rather middle class status today.  Any "privileges" I have, I've earned and I resent those that that have achieved some of the same privileges that I enjoy by benefitting from the hard work that I put in while they were sitting on their fat asses drawing entitlement checks.

YASNY thank you for sharing that bit of personal information. I ask you, when you needed the help, did you consider going to a Church food pantry? Also, when you finally started working again, did you lifestyle improve? I've heard some people explain that you could have lived just great on public aid. Was that true?

[southsider2k5]

That is exactly the point.  One sided partisan bulls***.  Discuss Lynne Cheney's previous public service and the things she has said and when she is speaking and when she is quiet.  One sided partisan bulls***.

 

Without looking it up, who can tell us what public positions Lynne Cheney has held?  More than Tipper... and Lynne Cheney fought for censorship in that position.

 

 

And as I recall, this thread began with a post about Al. To bring in Tipper to trash on her and then be upset about telling the truth about Lynne... interesting.

Let me make this real f***ing clear. I DON'T CARE IF YOU AGREE WITH ME OR NOT. BUT I WASN'T ARGUING WITH YOU.

 

One sided partisian bulls***??? WTF are you talking about??? And I wasn't defending Lynee Cheney. Where did I give some kind of opinion on the activities of Cheney... Oh yeah, I didn't. God, quit making s*** up! Yeah this thread started about Al, and surprise, surprise someone who has been watching your posts made the connection between Als wife and your idol. And where the f*** did I "trash" Tipper Gore. Every f***ing statement I said about her was of a factual nature. NO WHERE did I get a person opinion of Tipper Gore. NOWHERE. QUIT MAKING s*** UP!!!

 

I was trying to explain someone's f***ing opinion to you, and you go all f***ing nuts. Now you have me f***ing pissed off. Both for putting f***ing words into peoples mouths and for attacking my friends. You are acting like an irrational nutcase. I wasn't even trying to win a god damned arguement with you. I was trying to moderate to try to help you understand something you obviously made the wrong assumption on. You had to go all ballistic and start attacking people, just like you get all pissed off about when people do it to you. But I guess that is how you handle dissenting opinion, and why you are so sensative when people do it to you. But if you want to take something stupid like this and make it a personal arguement, let's go.