method Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0315/1524172.html WOWZA! must suck to be an A's fan.... can u imagine what beane could have done in boston? with their money.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 what an odd thing to do, makes Tejada a lame duck all year, no matter what the As do they aren't building off of this team for their future -- KW would never say something that stupid as give up on signing a player before the season starts - he might think it, but he'd never be that stupid to say it - St. Billy's crown is tarnished - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 i think billy bean prefers to keep his superstar players till the end and then get the draft choices...it seems t o work for him..hell everything seems to work for billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 If I was an Oakland fan, I would be very upset. To know that a great player with such clutch hitting will not be resigned for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 So are we gonna go off on how we should sign Tejada or what? Because, assuming JR wouldn't mind adding about $12 mill to the salary per year, he could. Why the hell not? I may as well turn this the Sox way and make it interesting. Say we get rid of Lee....that frees up $5 mill or so from next year's salary. We then lockup both Colon and Buehrle long term, Buehrle making about $3 mill next year, Colon making about $10....Thomas makes about $9 mill next year, Maggs $14 mill.....that is $36 mill between the 4 of them. We then trade Konerko(don't get me wrong....I love the guy....but this would be part of the plan), freeing up another $8 mill or so....we don't resign Valentin either. Koch will make about $6.5 mill or so next year....so that is $42.5 mill betwen the 5 of them.....we sign Daubach for about $4-5 mill....so we are at about $47 mill. We then get Garland to about a 3-year, $4-5 mill deal....so we are at about $48 mill. With everyone else included.....the bench and bullpen guys....we are maybe looking at about $58 mill. If we get to the ALCS or World Series(and we'd probably have to get atleast to the playoffs to even consider resigning Colon), JR may be willing to spend a little more....whether or not he is willing to spend $12 mill more is debateable....but he probably wouldn't. However, to make this fun, we'll say he will....so we then are at a payroll of about $70 mill. If we made it to the ALCS or World Series, would $70 mill be out of the realm of possibility? I think not. Can you imagine that lineup? Jimenez - 2B Tejada - SS Thomas - DH Borchard - OF(whether it be LF, CF, or RF is unknown to me....we'll say RF as default, because of his arm strength) Maggs - LF/RF(we'll say LF....see Borchard) Daubach - 1B Crede - 3B Rowand - CF Olivo - C We still have a good rotation(Colon, Buehrle, Garland, Wright as the top 4 and then Rauch, Stewart, Malone, and whoever else is available as the #5....maybe Jimmy B? Hopefully) and still have a good bullpen(Koch, Marte, and we might pick up Gordon's option, which would make him available, though I don't want White's picked up....maybe a bullpen of Koch, Gordon, Marte, Almonte, Wunsch/Sanders/Munoz, Glover....that looks real good) and a somewhat deep bench. The question remains though....is a payroll of $70 mill out of the question? IMO...it is not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 15, 2003 Share Posted March 15, 2003 So are we gonna go off on how we should sign Tejada or what? Because, assuming JR wouldn't mind adding about $12 mill to the salary per year, he could. Why the hell not? I may as well turn this the Sox way and make it interesting. Say we get rid of Lee....that frees up $5 mill or so from next year's salary. We then lockup both Colon and Buehrle long term, Buehrle making about $3 mill next year, Colon making about $10....Thomas makes about $9 mill next year, Maggs $14 mill.....that is $36 mill between the 4 of them. We then trade Konerko(don't get me wrong....I love the guy....but this would be part of the plan), freeing up another $8 mill or so....we don't resign Valentin either. Koch will make about $6.5 mill or so next year....so that is $42.5 mill betwen the 5 of them.....we sign Daubach for about $4-5 mill....so we are at about $47 mill. We then get Garland to about a 3-year, $4-5 mill deal....so we are at about $48 mill. With everyone else included.....the bench and bullpen guys....we are maybe looking at about $58 mill. If we get to the ALCS or World Series(and we'd probably have to get atleast to the playoffs to even consider resigning Colon), JR may be willing to spend a little more....whether or not he is willing to spend $12 mill more is debateable....but he probably wouldn't. However, to make this fun, we'll say he will....so we then are at a payroll of about $70 mill. If we made it to the ALCS or World Series, would $70 mill be out of the realm of possibility? I think not. Can you imagine that lineup? Jimenez - 2B Tejada - SS Thomas - DH Borchard - OF(whether it be LF, CF, or RF is unknown to me....we'll say RF as default, because of his arm strength) Maggs - LF/RF(we'll say LF....see Borchard) Daubach - 1B Crede - 3B Rowand - CF Olivo - C We still have a good rotation(Colon, Buehrle, Garland, Wright as the top 4 and then Rauch, Stewart, Malone, and whoever else is available as the #5....maybe Jimmy B? Hopefully) and still have a good bullpen(Koch, Marte, and we might pick up Gordon's option, which would make him available, though I don't want White's picked up....maybe a bullpen of Koch, Gordon, Marte, Almonte, Wunsch/Sanders/Munoz, Glover....that looks real good) and a somewhat deep bench. The question remains though....is a payroll of $70 mill out of the question? IMO...it is not Hmmm...not completely absurd. However, I say we shouldn't trade Konerko. He's a young leader on this team, and he's going to keep getting better. He has yet to have his best year IMO. I'd rather have this... Jimenez 2b Tejada SS Thomas DH Ordonez RF Konerko 1b Lee LF Borchard CF Crede 3b Olivo C We're not really dumping payroll, but I don't see the need to. If we're winning, we can carry a larger payroll, and JR wouldn't mind too much. That line-up would be so awesome. I doubt we'll get Tejada, though. Although...the top spenders (Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers) already have their SS slot filled. The Dodgers and Mets would be the Sox only competition, it would seem. The Dodgers have a lot tied up in pitchers, so I don't think they will get him, and the Mets are over the "cap". So I suppose anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingrt13 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Doesn't KW always deal very well with Billy Beane... I cannot wait for Tejada down on the southside! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 WIth Jose going to FA after this year, you can't put it out of the realm of possibility for the Sox to snag Tejada. Lee will most likely be gone after this season, so scratch 4.2 million. I'm also thinking Colon will bolt, so that's around 9 million. But, you also have to think Crede, Buehrle, and Garland will get some pretty big pay days after this year, as well as Magglio making 14 million next year. Could we land Tejada? Yup. Likely? Nah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Oakland is saving up all there money to keep the BIG 3 on the hill, Tejada should be traded and not kept like Giambi at least until JULY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 For all of those people who put lineups in for the sox, do you guys really see Tejada batting 2nd??? I think he'd definetly bat 5th and just bump everyone down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 For all of those people who put lineups in for the sox, do you guys really see Tejada batting 2nd??? I think he'd definetly bat 5th and just bump everyone down. I see Tejada hitting 2nd. If we used my lineup....putting Tejada 5th instead of 2nd bumps someone else up to the #2 spot....and the only one that could is either Rowand or Olivo....and it has Magglio batting atleast 6th....and if we wanted to keep the R-L-R thing going....it would bump him down to 7th. Maggs is too good a hitter to bat 6th, let alone 7th. If we use clujer's lineup, that would pretty much have to bump Olivo up to the #2 spot....and we'd have Crede batting 9th. Tejada would pretty much have to be the #2 hitter...because I don't know where we would put him otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Jimenez 2b Tejada SS Thomas DH Ordonez RF Konerko 1b Lee LF Borchard CF Crede 3b Olivo C We're not really dumping payroll, but I don't see the need to. If we're winning, we can carry a larger payroll, and JR wouldn't mind too much. That line-up would be so awesome. I doubt we'll get Tejada, though. Although...the top spenders (Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers) already have their SS slot filled. The Dodgers and Mets would be the Sox only competition, it would seem. The Dodgers have a lot tied up in pitchers, so I don't think they will get him, and the Mets are over the "cap". So I suppose anything is possible. No way can we keep all our top players AND get Tejada, no way, unless you become the Sox owner, clujer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Clujer....I just did a little math...and with some thought out guesses to some guys's money-numbers for next year....that lineup would cost about $49.5 mill. If you want to resign Colon and Buehrle....than that is about $13 mill more....which jacks the payroll up to $62.5 mill. Then you add Koch's $6.5 mill or so....which brings it to $69 mill....and then Garland's deal....which brings it up to $70 mill. And then you add the rest of the team....and that brings it up to about $80 mill. Adding $24 mill to payroll is a little too much, even for an ALCS or World Series team that hosts the All-Star game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Jimenez 2b Tejada SS Thomas DH Ordonez RF Konerko 1b Lee LF Borchard CF Crede 3b Olivo C We're not really dumping payroll, but I don't see the need to. If we're winning, we can carry a larger payroll, and JR wouldn't mind too much. That line-up would be so awesome. I doubt we'll get Tejada, though. Although...the top spenders (Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers) already have their SS slot filled. The Dodgers and Mets would be the Sox only competition, it would seem. The Dodgers have a lot tied up in pitchers, so I don't think they will get him, and the Mets are over the "cap". So I suppose anything is possible. No way can we keep all our top players AND get Tejada, no way, unless you become the Sox owner, clujer. Hey, I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Clujer....I just did a little math...and with some thought out guesses to some guys's money-numbers for next year....that lineup would cost about $49.5 mill. If you want to resign Colon and Buehrle....than that is about $13 mill more....which jacks the payroll up to $62.5 mill. Then you add Koch's $6.5 mill or so....which brings it to $69 mill....and then Garland's deal....which brings it up to $70 mill. And then you add the rest of the team....and that brings it up to about $80 mill. Adding $24 mill to payroll is a little too much, even for an ALCS or World Series team that hosts the All-Star game. Yeah, my lineup's not very realistic. Realistically, if we're going to get Tejada, we'll probably lose Colon. If not, we'll lose Lee, Valentin, and possibly even Frank. To me, losing Colon for Tejada isn't worth it, and Tejada certainly isn't worth Carlos, Jose, and Frank. IMRO (R for realistic and/or rational), there's no way we can get Tejada and keep enough of this team to make it worth while unless JR decides to do his best Steinbrenner impersonation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Clujer....I just did a little math...and with some thought out guesses to some guys's money-numbers for next year....that lineup would cost about $49.5 mill. If you want to resign Colon and Buehrle....than that is about $13 mill more....which jacks the payroll up to $62.5 mill. Then you add Koch's $6.5 mill or so....which brings it to $69 mill....and then Garland's deal....which brings it up to $70 mill. And then you add the rest of the team....and that brings it up to about $80 mill. Adding $24 mill to payroll is a little too much, even for an ALCS or World Series team that hosts the All-Star game. Yeah, my lineup's not very realistic. Realistically, if we're going to get Tejada, we'll probably lose Colon. If not, we'll lose Lee, Valentin, and possibly even Frank. To me, losing Colon for Tejada isn't worth it, and Tejada certainly isn't worth Carlos, Jose, and Frank. IMRO (R for realistic and/or rational), there's no way we can get Tejada and keep enough of this team to make it worth while unless JR decides to do his best Steinbrenner impersonation. If we pursue Tejada, we have to lose Valentin....meaning we don't try to resign him. IMO, we don't have to lose both Carlos and Frank....we only have to lose 1 of them. And the one with the most exceptional year stays. Thomas could hit .300 30 110 and Carlos could hit .280 30 90....and Carlos would stay, not Thomas....because Carlos is younger and cheaper and just as good. Now, if Carlos hits the same thing and Thomas hits .330 40 130....Thomas stays....because he had a much better year. I don't see us keeping both Lee and Thomas next year....because, even though Joey B has good range in CF, it's not good enough to cover the area Lee covers, and our OF defense would suffer immensely. We need decent range in both LF and RF....because Rowand has decent range in CF....and Lee does not have good range.. Both Frank and Carlos should DH for the rest of their career....Thomas I know will. And there can't be two DH's in the AL....only 1. The tough part is this....say Thomas has a .350 50 150 year....and Lee has a .320 40 120 year....both very exceptionally good....or Thomas has a .260 30 95 year....and Carlos has a .250 20 65 year....both very exceptionally s***ty....at this point, it is up to KW and JR to decide who stays and who goes....but mainly up to JR, because it is HIS team. Thomas is a JR boy, and Lee is a KW boy....you tell me who stays. If JR has it his way....Thomas will be in a White Sox uniform next year...and Lee will not be. $70 mill isn't out of the question....well, maybe a little....but Daubach might settle for a little less(maybe $3 mill), and Thomas might make less than $9 mill(like, say, $8 mill), and Buehrle makes $2 mill instead of $3 mill....we are then at $66.5 mill. Maybe Colon takes $8 mill instead of $10 mill....that brings it down to $64.5. Maybe we don't pick up Gordon's option, Toronto gives back Majewski and we use Majewski instead....we then save another $1 mill or so...bringing it down to $63.5. And then maybe Garland is renewed for $500,000 and not given a deal like he gets....and it is $63 mill. Maybe in the trade we make that gets rid of Lee(because that's what would happen under my scenario), we get $1 mill in cash....which essentially wipes out another $1 mill. Maybe Tejada takes $10 mill instead of $12 mill....that brings it down to $60 mill. That's all stretching a bit....but all a possibility. If we made it to the ALCS or World Series....it wouldn't be too unimaginably difficult for us to add like $2-4 mill to the payroll. Also...I assume the teams that would be interested in Tejada would be the M's, O's, Flubbies, LA, and then us...5 teams....that's not that many. And I'm not positive that Seattle would...I know Baltimore would, and LA probably would(isn't Izturis a SS? I know he's a good MI prospect...just not sure if it's SS or 2B)....and there is no doubt the Chubbies would. If just us and the sCrUBS were interested in Tejada, it would be sweet as hell if we got him over them. We would get to laugh our asses off at the pathetic Flubbie fannies. It's possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Witesoxfan, you said that you would trade Konerko, but you never factored in the salary for who we'd be receiving, or even the individual himself, surely you can't forget about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulokis Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 How much would Tejada amount if we sign him? I'd say he is looking for 10-15 million a year. It is going to be great if we can get him in the southside. Maybe its time for KW to out duel Beane for the first time for us to get Tejada if they decide to trade him or may be not. He will improve our middle-infield defense. If Manos is gone, Tejada will fill in as one of the leaders of the Sox. He is going to be a good compliment for Magglio, Paulie, and the rest. although Tejada will look great in the Silver and Black, I dont think Reinsdorf will open his wallet and increase his payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Witesoxfan, you said that you would trade Konerko, but you never factored in the salary for who we'd be receiving, or even the individual himself, surely you can't forget about that. Prospects I'd consider trading both Konerko and Lee to Baltimore....but they really don't have many prospects at all. Gibbons is a good player and is cheap....but the don't have much else. Cordova isn't that great and he costs quite a bit....their starting staff is crap....though their bullpen is nice. If we could somehow get Jorge Julio, Gibbons, Geronimo Gil, and 1 good prospect for Konerko and Lee....I'd be all for it. We get a stud reliever, a helluva hitter, a great backup catcher, and a good prospect for Konerko and Lee....if we did this, we wouldn't have to resign Daubach....because he and Gibbons are very much a like.....though having Gibbons for depth would be nice. It is unnecessary though. A lineup of Jimenez, Tejada, Thomas, Borchard, Ordonez, Gibbons, Crede, Rowand, Olivo.....that's still a helluva lineup, and it costs under $40 mill....that is quite possibly the best lineup $40 mill can buy in today's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 I still don't like getting into a bidding war for Tejada. We've got a couple of very promising shortstops in the minors, most notably Andy Gonzalez. If we sign Tejada, Andy gets buried. I know he won't be ready next year, but we can squeeze another year or two out of Valentine at reasonable salaries. And then all those future studs from Bristol and Kannapolis will be ready. By the end of this season we can properly evaluate Gonzalez. Meanwhile, Konerko will become a fixture at first. He is liable to hit a ton this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 If I'm not mistaken the O's just traded Jay Gibbons to the Rockies for Jack Cust, or was it Chris Richard? I always confuse them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 If I'm not mistaken the O's just traded Jay Gibbons to the Rockies for Jack Cust, or was it Chris Richard? I always confuse them. If they had traded Gibbons to Colorado for Cust....their GM should be shot. He would have been shot already. Their GM is alive....because Gibbons is still in Baltimore. It was Richard for Cust. Trading a stud in Gibbons for a guy who didn't hit in Colorado of all places would have been a huge mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 what an odd thing to do, makes Tejada a lame duck all year, no matter what the As do they aren't building off of this team for their future -- KW would never say something that stupid as give up on signing a player before the season starts - he might think it, but he'd never be that stupid to say it - St. Billy's crown is tarnished - well it kinda makes sense to come out and be honest about it.. hey they arent gonna waste his time nor bother giving the impression they can afford him......i commend them for doing it the honest way........cw, kw has done just that same thing... trying to evoke franks clause was an attempt......id rather have st. billys crown here than dumbass part 2 kw........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 If I'm not mistaken the O's just traded Jay Gibbons to the Rockies for Jack Cust, or was it Chris Richard? I always confuse them. If they had traded Gibbons to Colorado for Cust....their GM should be shot. He would have been shot already. Their GM is alive....because Gibbons is still in Baltimore. It was Richard for Cust. Trading a stud in Gibbons for a guy who didn't hit in Colorado of all places would have been a huge mistake. gibbons is my fantasy lerague 1st baseman..tell me it was him that got sent to colorado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 I'm drooling............ That lineup is scarry.. We need him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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