YASNY Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 I wouldn't offer up Marte for Figgins, but I would give the Angels Cotts and I think they would probably be interested. However, I do think the Sox need another top of the order person. I also think they need a new shortstop and a left handed bat somewhere in the middle part of the order. My main thinking was that Omar could fit into ss and fill the top of the lineup with Harris, or you could have Omar leadoff and Rowand hit in the 2 hole with Harris in the 9 spot. Add a left handed bat in RF or CF for the middle portion of the lineup and have Rowand play CF or RF. Add a starter and a couple bullpen arms. That's a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted August 27, 2004 Author Share Posted August 27, 2004 I wouldn't offer up Marte for Figgins, but I would give the Angels Cotts and I think they would probably be interested. However, I do think the Sox need another top of the order person. I also think they need a new shortstop and a left handed bat somewhere in the middle part of the order. My main thinking was that Omar could fit into ss and fill the top of the lineup with Harris, or you could have Omar leadoff and Rowand hit in the 2 hole with Harris in the 9 spot. Add a left handed bat in RF or CF for the middle portion of the lineup and have Rowand play CF or RF. Add a starter and a couple bullpen arms. For some reason, Marte has looked very hittable this year. Cotts isn't too far away from taking on the late inning role. With the Sox acquiring a 5th starter, then Cotts is in the bullpen. I don't know if Marte's decline is a one yr thing or a harbinger of things to come. Ozzie has talked a lot about not seeing the Marte of 2003 this year. He would bring a nice price, just look at the Dotel and Mota deals. The Sox know Marte isn't closer material. Some team may gamble that he can be and overpay. While unlikely he's traded, it could happen. If the Sox could get a young, everyday player in return, the Sox should go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I really don't think the original trade proposed would have any chance. Look at the trade that the Marlins made before the deadline. They traded Brad Penny, a pitcher who I believe is arbitration eligible at the end of the year and plays a position they are loaded at for Guillermo Mota AND Paul LoDuca. While I realize teams are more likely to give up a ton of pitching, this seems to give an idea of what a solid reliever that is a non closer is worth. The Dodgers had to give up their starting catcher(and a good one at that) and a stud reliever(better than Marte) to get what in a perfect world when everyone is healthy would be the Marlin's 4th starter. Pierre is an everday player who is a bigger part of their plans and has been doing well, and is not prohibitively expensive right now(I'm not 100% sure about his contract situation). You'd probably need to knock them out with a collection of young major league ready players, which we can't really give them right now(although if we threw in BMac and Anderson that might be intriguing for them, wouldn't make much sense for us then). As for the money aspect, it doesn't seem like Pierre's money is that big of a deal right now. Beckett, Burnett, Willis, and Cabrera are not going to be eligible for FA for a while. They have to worry about Pavano, Benitez, and I believe Lowell sooner, and I could easily see all of them going. They let Lee and Rodriguez and Urbina go because they were all going to get over $6 mil, which is a much bigger problem for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted August 29, 2004 Author Share Posted August 29, 2004 I really don't think the original trade proposed would have any chance. Look at the trade that the Marlins made before the deadline. The basic point is set up men have value, particularly Marte. Penny [26] coming into his prime, Choi, [a big LH bat who LA thinks is coming inot his as well-i disagree] for LoDuca and Mota [Encarnacion was given away-he's owed $4+ mill in 2005 and is hitting in the .230's] was still lopsided for the Marlins [LA thought they'd get the Johnson's, clearing salary for them but didn't]. With Ozzie in the win now mode, wanting to get more of "his" guys so he can play his style of play right away so he can start his managing career off by winning [he inherited this team and has had to live and die w/ their limitations], it makes sense some kind of deal w/ FLA would be talked about, seeing how he knows the players so well. A few other points. FLA looks like it won't pass a stadium deal. With money tighton salaries, FLA can't afford guys like Alex Gonzalez and Encarnacion making $3-4 mill each. They could clear salary by including one of these guys with Pierre. The "talent" in any straight up trade might not be equal. But the money saved by teams who can then go out and afford other talent, can be the equalizer. So while LA's trade may have seemed lopsided, they freed up money so they could get additional talent. [it didn't work out so they looked foolish] LA needed SP help, as they had a lot of injuries. the were using Lima, enough said. Penny is still locked up and coming into his prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 The basic point is set up men have value, particularly Marte. Penny [26] coming into his prime, Choi, [a big LH bat who LA thinks is coming inot his as well-i disagree] for LoDuca and Mota [Encarnacion was given away-he's owed $4+ mill in 2005 and is hitting in the .230's] was still lopsided for the Marlins [LA thought they'd get the Johnson's, clearing salary for them but didn't]. With Ozzie in the win now mode, wanting to get more of "his" guys so he can play his style of play right away so he can start his managing career off by winning [he inherited this team and has had to live and die w/ their limitations], it makes sense some kind of deal w/ FLA would be talked about, seeing how he knows the players so well. A few other points. FLA looks like it won't pass a stadium deal. With money tighton salaries, FLA can't afford guys like Alex Gonzalez and Encarnacion making $3-4 mill each. They could clear salary by including one of these guys with Pierre. The "talent" in any straight up trade might not be equal. But the money saved by teams who can then go out and afford other talent, can be the equalizer. So while LA's trade may have seemed lopsided, they freed up money so they could get additional talent. [it didn't work out so they looked foolish] LA needed SP help, as they had a lot of injuries. the were using Lima, enough said. Penny is still locked up and coming into his prime. CF Pierre RF Rowand DH Thomas 3B Beltre LF Lee 1B Konerko SS Uribe C Davis/Burke 2B Willie/Polanco (pl.) Garcia Pavano Buerhle Contreras Garland/Loaiza (the latter health-contingent) Shingo Mota Marte Wunsch/Munoz Bajenaru Adkins/Garland Gload Spidale Valdez Everett/Valentin Works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 CF Pierre RF Rowand DH Thomas 3B Beltre LF Lee 1B Konerko SS Uribe C Davis/Burke 2B Willie/Polanco (pl.) Garcia Pavano Buerhle Contreras Garland/Loaiza (the latter health-contingent) Shingo Mota Marte Wunsch/Munoz Bajenaru Adkins/Garland Gload Spidale Valdez Everett/Valentin Works for me. We get none that you mentioned imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 CF Pierre RF Rowand DH Thomas 3B Beltre LF Lee 1B Konerko SS Uribe C Davis/Burke 2B Willie/Polanco (pl.) Garcia Pavano Buerhle Contreras Garland/Loaiza (the latter health-contingent) Shingo Mota Marte Wunsch/Munoz Bajenaru Adkins/Garland Gload Spidale Valdez Everett/Valentin Works for me. That would be one hell of a team, to bad that team would cost a s*** load of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 That would be one hell of a team, to bad that team would cost a s*** load of money. 3.5 - 8 10 8.5 8.75 - 1.5 - 9 7.5 5.5 6 2 2.5 3.5 1.5 - - - - - - 4 Are you saying 83 Mill is "s***load" of money? Right now the payroll is sitting right at 70 M with Everett, Garcia and Robbie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Pssh, Beltre will ask for a s***LOAD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Pssh, Beltre will ask for a s***LOAD. Asking is one thing, getting it is another. Teams have been burned on Delgado, Green, Vaughn, A-Rod, Jeter, Hidalgo, Belle and Manny - and actually had a track history of great success before signing mind-boggling contracts.....as opposed to just having one season of dominance following 6 seasons of mediocrity in Beltre's case. And besides, 10 M is just a first year sum. It escalates from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Asking is one thing, getting it is another. Teams have been burned on Delgado, Green, Vaughn, A-Rod, Jeter, Hidalgo, Belle and Manny - and actually had a track history of great success before signing mind-boggling contracts.....as opposed to just having one season of dominance following 6 seasons of mediocrity in Beltre's case. And besides, 10 M is just a first year sum. It escalates from there. Pavano will get at least ten million per yer also. Sox are not willing to spend that much i am positive about that. When a player asks for a certain amount of money 99 out of a 100 times they get it if not more. Like i said the sox will not get anyone you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Pavano will get at least ten million per yer also. After Colon/Ponson/Millwood fiasco, teams will be less williing to shell out more than 7-8 mill for a pitcher with a long history of under-performance and injuries. Yankees, the team that loves to overpay, might make a play for Big Unit again, Pedro will be out there as well. One way or another, one of Perez/Clement/Pavano could fall into our lap. I could easily see a back-loaded contract, starting with 6-7 M. If not, then Sox could always settle for a (healthy) Loaiza as a #4 at a bargain-basement price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Hmm, I didnt know Arod, Manny, and Delgado were that bad.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 After Colon/Ponson/Millwood fiasco, teams will be less williing to shell out more than 7-8 mill for a pitcher with a long history of under-performance and injuries. Yankees, the team that loves to overpay, might make a play for Big Unit again, Pedro will be out there as well. One way or another, one of Perez/Clement/Pavano could fall into our lap. I could easily see a back-loaded contract, starting with 6-7 M. If not, then Sox could always settle for a (healthy) Loaiza as a #4 at a bargain-basement price. O.k. that is your opinion, but i still think teams are dumb enough to give beltre,pavano,pedro,vlement, and perez ridiculous contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Hmm, I didnt know Arod, Manny, and Delgado were that bad.... Their contracts were terrible, no one deserves that much money to play a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Their contracts were terrible, no one deserves that much money to play a game. True, I don't think we'll be seeing contract offers as high as A rod for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Their contracts were terrible, no one deserves that much money to play a game. I wouldn't say "terrible", but let's just say their respective teams fell out of love with them rather quickly. And with all due respect to Beltre and Pavano, they are one-year wonders until proven otherwise. Now, I happen think they're not flukes, but when it comes to exorbitant long-term contracts, history of performance and health is usually heavily weighted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 the Sox will probably avoid going after guys wanting [and should get] big contracts [$10 + mill] and who have been health risks. FA's who are in both categories should definitely be avoided. Beltre and Pavano likely won't be close to the Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I think this is an off season where no one has any idea what the Sox are planning other than building around pitching and grinders. As for what individuals they are targeting, and what they are willing to give up to get those individuals.... it's a crapshoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I can't wait!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 I think this is an off season where no one has any idea what the Sox are planning other than building around pitching and grinders. As for what individuals they are targeting, and what they are willing to give up to get those individuals.... it's a crapshoot. I agree to a certain extent. Yet signing a FA to a long term huge contract [like 4 yrs at $10 mill + per, ala Beltran, etc] is almost certainly not going to happen. Too many teams have been hurt by these type of contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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