Flash Tizzle Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Question: If Sox were still in contention, and Garcia was experiencing similiar tightness in arm, does anyone believe he would be sractched in place of Jason Grilli? Hell no. This is our investment for the next three years. If a four-man rotation were implemented and Sox clinched a playoff birth, I'd venture to say Garcia would spend significant time on the DL come next year. Tomorrow's loss may be significant, but I'm glad Guillen recognized our position in the standings and realized there is nothing to gain from trottting out an injured player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Remenber what we did to Chad Durbin last night? You're about to witness the same thing today, although we will be the ones taking down our drawers to take it up the keister. Grilli is nothing more than minor-league fodder. But then again, so is 97% of our minor leaguers. Nice scouting, guys. :fyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Remenber what we did to Chad Durbin last night? You're about to witness the same thing today, although we will be the ones taking down our drawers to take it up the keister. Grilli is nothing more than minor-league fodder. But then again, so is 97% of our minor leaguers. Nice scouting, guys. :fyou At least we wasted the Indians bullpen yesterday, if we can get to Sabathia early, who hasn't been at his best either in his last few outings, it'll definitely help our chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 I just hope, that one day - one of our minor league pitchers could come up, and throw a gem when we really needed one - kind of what that Bautista, IIRC that's his name, kid from Baltimore did to us earlier in the year with that 1-0 shutout. Just once, man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 For what it's worth (nothing), Grilli's wife is a real sweetheart and I will be rooting hard for Jason, if only to see him finally get his ML career on track. I still think he'd be a better reliever than starter, but that's just me. Same with Diaz. Diaz needs to learn to command the inner half though. Grilli will throw inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 For what it's worth (nothing), Grilli's wife is a real sweetheart and I will be rooting hard for Jason, if only to see him finally get his ML career on track. I still think he'd be a better reliever than starter, but that's just me. Same with Diaz. Diaz needs to learn to command the inner half though. Grilli will throw inside. I just hope Grilli tries to keep the ball down, otherwise he'll get hammered by the Tribe's great offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Now I'm really happy Ozzie threw Garcia out there in the 8th inning last Sunday after throwing 117 pitches, to face Ramirez for the 4th time. Fire Ozzie, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Now I'm really happy Ozzie threw Garcia out there in the 8th inning last Sunday after throwing 117 pitches, to face Ramirez for the 4th time. Fire Ozzie, please. I agree that wasn't a good move, but fire Guillen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Frankly, I'm more worried about Buehrle. He's thrown a s***pot of innings for three straight years. They need to back off on him, too. As for Grilli, his ERA is nearly 5 in Triple A. His control is similar to Danny Wright. I don't expect much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 What pitches does Grilli work with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 What pitches does Grilli work with? Fastball, slider, curve, change ... the basics. Control and command have long been the problem. He's got good velocity though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Now I'm really happy Ozzie threw Garcia out there in the 8th inning last Sunday after throwing 117 pitches, to face Ramirez for the 4th time. Fire Ozzie, please. Yep. That ONE batter did it! rolleyeyes.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 27, 2004 Author Share Posted August 27, 2004 I haven't seen a loss of "stuff" from Freddy Garcia. Just two starts ago he struck out 7 batters in a row, to me that doesn't qualify as a loss of "stuff". Freddy is Freddy because his fastball could hit 96 and he has filthy slider-curve combo that most pitchers do not have because they don't generate the necessary armspeed and power. His last 2 starts, the fastball was topping out at 91-92 and curveball was rolling, less bite on slider too. Control erratic. It was obvious that something was not right. I am starting to worry about Contreras too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 Yep. That ONE batter did it! rolleyeyes.gif That's exactly what you want to do, extend injured pitchers He probably was hurt before that, but maybe he did get hurt that batter, do you know for sure? Either way, it was stupid to leave him in. If he was hurt before that, are you saying that sending him out to the mound is a good idea? The man you just gave $27 million to? Its about time Ozzie starts taking care of his starters, so next year they won't have the excuse 2 or 3 or 4 starting pitchers got hurt, and who can overcome that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 How about Garland as trade bait, for a box of balls and maybe another massage table. I dont know about you, but im more worried about Garland's constant 5 run innings than some stiffness in Freddy's arm. Im waiting for anyone to step up other than our top three and pitch a decent game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 prior to his start against detroit ozzie alluded to garcia not having his best stuff. this is probably something they've been aware of for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguana Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 What pitches does Grilli work with? Bad ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 That's exactly what you want to do, extend injured pitchers He probably was hurt before that, but maybe he did get hurt that batter, do you know for sure? Either way, it was stupid to leave him in. If he was hurt before that, are you saying that sending him out to the mound is a good idea? The man you just gave $27 million to? Its about time Ozzie starts taking care of his starters, so next year they won't have the excuse 2 or 3 or 4 starting pitchers got hurt, and who can overcome that? No. It wasn't stupid to leave him in. It's stupid to speculate about one batter causing an injury or to speculate about whether or not he was hurt prior to that batter or if Ozzie even knew about it. Strategically, it was the right move to make at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 No. It wasn't stupid to leave him in. It's stupid to speculate about one batter causing an injury or to speculate about whether or not he was hurt prior to that batter or if Ozzie even knew about it. Strategically, it was the right move to make at that time. So you are saying he injured it after the game? He was either injured before that last pitch, or he was injured that last pitch, its not stupid to speculate, it has to be the case. I don't know if you were at that game, I was. I don't know if you watched it or listened on the radio, and since I didn't see the TV I don't know if it was brought up, but one interesting thing happened that would make you wonder. When he was warming up in between innings, he was just lobbing the ball, like you would lob one to a child, he would let it go a little bit on his last warm up. My friend and I were wondering if there was a problem, but nothing was reported, so we thought nothing of it. I really haven't paid much attention to Freddy warming up before, maybe that's what he does all the time. In my first post about this subject, in which you ridiculed me, I did state that leaving him in probably didn't matter as far as the outcome of the game especially considering Marte was the only one warming up, and he seemed quite generous that evening. I was concerned about injury, and I know its only 1 more pitch, but when guys blow out their elbows, sometimes 1 pitch puts them over the top. You really don't know what kind of stress the previous pitches had on his arm, and if he had this forearm problem, how much he altered his delivery to ease pain. Hopefully this injury is as minor as the White Sox want everyone to believe. Ozzie must realize that this season is a lost cause, and ease up on his horses. He's going to need them next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 The thing that I objected to was that you were laying blame on Ozzie. If, in fact, he did hurt his arm on that one pitch, there is no way Ozzie could have foretold that. On the other, as you stated, he was already possibly hurting, then we have a multitude of variables which should be taken into consideration before placing blame on anyone. And most of those variables, we as fans are not privy to. They are coneversations between the pitcher and the manager, the pitching coach and pitcher, the manager and pitching coach. Now possibily throw the catcher into the mix, or maybe a word spoken by the pitcher to another pitcher on the bench and you get some idea of what I mean by a multitude of variables. And for the record, I did not ridicule you. I expressed my strong opposition to your opinion that Ozzie should be fired. It is that opinion that I find rather ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 The thing that I objected to was that you were laying blame on Ozzie. If, in fact, he did hurt his arm on that one pitch, there is no way Ozzie could have foretold that. On the other, as you stated, he was already possibly hurting, then we have a multitude of variables which should be taken into consideration before placing blame on anyone. And most of those variables, we as fans are not privy to. They are coneversations between the pitcher and the manager, the pitching coach and pitcher, the manager and pitching coach. Now possibily throw the catcher into the mix, or maybe a word spoken by the pitcher to another pitcher on the bench and you get some idea of what I mean by a multitude of variables. And for the record, I did not ridicule you. I expressed my strong opposition to your opinion that Ozzie should be fired. It is that opinion that I find rather ridiculous. Just ignore my wanting Ozzie fired. I never wanted him hired, and its my little crusade right now. His velocity was way off, you're right we are not privy to conversations. But players get criticized if they say they can't or shouldn't play. Remember the outcry last season when Colon told Manuel he was done against the Cubs, and the Sox lost 2-1? The fact he was only throwing 91 or 92 and the warm up, had a couple people in the seats wondering if there wasn't something wrong, it just amazes me that no matter what Freddy would say to Ozzie, Ozzie wouldn't just take charge and say, " I don't like how your velocity has dropped, and I don't like how you're warming up, something is not right", and not take the chance. Just like when Ordonez came back, and didn't want to DH. Ozzie puts him in RF. Ozzie has to be in charge, he has to say no, its too much to risk. I know Magglio's current condition probably has nothing to do with him going back out in the field, but they wanted him to DH for a while when they thought his condition was far less serious than what it turned out to be. Ozzie is the manager, he is ultimately held responsible for these decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Just ignore my wanting Ozzie fired. I never wanted him hired, and its my little crusade right now. His velocity was way off, you're right we are not privy to conversations. But players get criticized if they say they can't or shouldn't play. Remember the outcry last season when Colon told Manuel he was done against the Cubs, and the Sox lost 2-1? The fact he was only throwing 91 or 92 and the warm up, had a couple people in the seats wondering if there wasn't something wrong, it just amazes me that no matter what Freddy would say to Ozzie, Ozzie wouldn't just take charge and say, " I don't like how your velocity has dropped, and I don't like how you're warming up, something is not right", and not take the chance. Just like when Ordonez came back, and didn't want to DH. Ozzie puts him in RF. Ozzie has to be in charge, he has to say no, its too much to risk. I know Magglio's current condition probably has nothing to do with him going back out in the field, but they wanted him to DH for a while when they thought his condition was far less serious than what it turned out to be. Ozzie is the manager, he is ultimately held responsible for these decisions. I still think that strategically, at that point in the game, Ozzie made the right move. Not having any of the other information at my disposal, I can't and won't criticize him for putting him back out there because he might be or get hurt. So, when it comes down to it, I guess we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 Speaking of Freddy Garcia, the Sox flagship just reported that he will make his next scheduled start. That being said, if he's having ANY type of discomfort, I would shut him down. We're going to be counting on him to win at least 15-17 games next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.