Israel reportedly has spy in Pentagon

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I shouldn't waste my time with this, because Apu knows not of what he speaks, but, FOR THE LAST TIME...

1) As for these organizations of which you claim to be a member, they have no legitimacy, IMO. It would be the same as saying, I am a Black Republican, or I am a skinhead advocate for the NAACP. Members of groups such as these are "self-haters". The have no credibility in my world.

 

2) Equating Sharon and Arafat is like equating apples and hammers.  Arafat is a blood thirsty, murderous terrorist, who has no problem sending innocent children, strapped with explosives, to detonate themselves and other innocent children and women and elderly. Then he pays their families, makes heroes out of them, names streets after them, puts them on posters, trading cards, etc.

 

Sharon is a war hero who fought for Israel's independance. He has NEVER targeted innocent women, children, elderly, civilians, nor has he commanded the IDF to do so. To believe otherwise is utter foolishness.

 

3) Baruch Goldstein was a terrorist, and was condemned by Israel as such.  He was NEVER hailed as a hero, nor are there posters of him or streets named after him in Israel. There is NOT a park named after him...you are an idiot if you believe this!

 

BTW...I never heard you complain about the Muslims wasting millions of people in the Sudan...I wonder why. Maybe because Israel/Jews aren't involved?!

 

Here is a major difference between Apu and me. When I wake up, I read the Tribune and the SunTimes, I watch CNN, Foxnews, MSNBC, and the local news. I subscribe to/read both Time and Newsweek. I also look at Jerusalem Post and Haaretz on line. On the other hand, I believe that Apu goes straight to "IHATEISRAEL.COM" or "ISRAELSUCKS.COM" for his "news".

 

I recommend the Bard book "Myths and Facts about the Arab-Israeli Conflict" and/or the highly acclaimed documentary "Relentless" for those who want the real facts about this conflict.

Wow, nice straw man argumentation! Misrepresent your opposition so it's easier to debate them.

 

1. Just because you believe they have no legitimacy, there are plenty of non-Zionist Jews who are sickened by the actions of the extremists that have taken power to act in their name. Just like we hate Bush, that doesn't make us "American self-haters" because we dislike the neo-conservative asshat agenda being touted by our government.

 

2. Arafat and Sharon are the same type of person. Sharon committed war crimes at Sabra and Shatila and has committed numerous war crimes with his extra-judicial murder sprees within Israel not to mention the murder of civilians. (Don't tell me he's not targeting civilians. Shooting missles from a helicopter into an apartment, one knows there will be civilian "collateral damage")

 

3. As for news, it seems like you read frontpagemag, the Moonie Times (aka the Washington Times) and pro-Zionist papers rather than anything like you stated. As for the media I read, it's not "IHATEISRAEL.com" (a cunning strategy by an equally cunning linguist) but rather Antiwar.com, Common Dreams Media Center, CounterPunch, Salon.com, The Nation, BBC, The Guardian, Buzzflash, Greg Palast etc. along with some US media like Mother Jones, the Progressive etc.

[israel4ever]

So there is a guy passing on secrets to Israel, but Israel has no guilt in the matter? They had no responsibility to inform the US? So any ally can spy on the US without any reprisal? Wow.

 

Apu, what do you think?

What would you do, Tex?

 

What does International Law proscribe?

[israel4ever]

Wow, nice straw man argumentation!  Misrepresent your opposition so it's easier to debate them.

 

1.  Just because you believe they have no legitimacy, there are plenty of non-Zionist Jews who are sickened by the actions of the extremists that have taken power to act in their name.  Just like we hate Bush, that doesn't make us "American self-haters" because we dislike the neo-conservative asshat agenda being touted by our government.

 

2. Arafat and Sharon are the same type of person.  Sharon committed war crimes at Sabra and Shatila and has committed numerous war crimes with his extra-judicial murder sprees within Israel not to mention the murder of civilians. (Don't tell me he's not targeting civilians.  Shooting missles from a helicopter into an apartment, one knows there will be civilian "collateral damage")

 

3. As for news, it seems like you read frontpagemag, the Moonie Times (aka the Washington Times) and pro-Zionist papers rather than anything like you stated.  As for the media I read, it's not "IHATEISRAEL.com" (a cunning strategy by an equally cunning linguist) but rather Antiwar.com, Common Dreams Media Center, CounterPunch, Salon.com, The Nation, BBC, The Guardian, Buzzflash, Greg Palast etc. along with some US media like Mother Jones, the Progressive etc.

You are a liar AND an idiot!

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Great.

 

You are talking about 400 people out of the entire population of Israel. That's not really representative of the people of Israel.

 

Now, on the other hand, 68% of "Palestinians" surveyed (in a "Palestinian" poll) said that they would endorse the continued targeting of Israeli civilians, even IF/AFTER they got their own State. (That's 68/100 for you intelligence-challenged out there!)

Let's see. Palestinians just might be a bit bitter at the fact that they've been screwed over by the UN and forced to live under oppressive police state structures and forced to be 2nd class citizens because Israel wants their own private ethnic state...just might be a little bit bitter at having to see civilians killed, all their buildings bombed and no ability to make an honest living if guards decide to be asshole and not let them get to their farms etc.

 

But I'm sure Jews and others that felt the effects of the Reich were peachy keen with the Germans right after the end of World War II.

 

As for your statement about 68%, you quote it a lot with no source at all. Makes it just a little bit suspicious to me. (Cite sources to prove your case, for those "intelligence challenged" people out there )

 

And I am not a fan of Arafat, I am rather a fan of the NPI movement in Palestine. It is a movement of both Jews and Palestinians and has about 55% of the population behind it now according to research done by Edward Said. The most promising is made up of the members of the National Palestinian Initiative; they are grass roots activists whose main activity is not pushing papers on a desk, nor juggling bank accounts, nor looking for journalists to pay attention to them, but who come from the ranks of the professionals, the working classes, and young intellectuals and activists, the teachers, doctors, lawyers, working people who have kept society going while also fending off daily Israeli attacks. Second, these are people committed to the kind of democracy and popular participation undreamt of by the Authority, whose idea of democracy is stability and security for itself. Lastly, they offer social services to the unemployed, health to the uninsured and the poor, proper secular education to a new generation of Palestinians who must be taught the realities of the modern world, not just the extraordinary worth of the old one. For such programs, the NPI stipulates that getting rid of the occupation is the only way forward, and that in order to do that, a representative national unified leadership be elected freely to replace the cronies, the outdated, and the ineffectiveness that have plagued Palestinian leaders for the past century.

 

Edward Said elaborates saying:

One in particular has struck me as significant (and I have attached myself to it) inasmuch as it now provides the only genuine grassroots formation that steers clear both of the religious parties and their fundamentally sectarian politics, and of the traditional nationalism offered up by Arafat's old (rather than young) Fatah activists. It's called the National Political Initiative (NPI) and its leading figure is Mostapha Barghuti, a Moscow-trained doctor, whose main work has been as director of the impressive Village Medical Relief Committee, which has brought healthcare to more than 100,000 rural Palestinians. A former Communist Party stalwart, Barghuti is a quietly spoken organiser who has overcome the hundreds of physical obstacles impeding Palestinian movement or travel abroad to rally nearly every independent individual and organisation of note behind a political programme that promises social reform as well as liberation across doctrinal lines. Barghuti has built an enviably well-run solidarity movement that practises the pluralism and coexistence it preaches. NPI doesn't throw up its hands at the directionless militarisation of the intifada. It offers training programmes for the unemployed and social services for the destitute on the grounds that these answer to present circumstances and Israeli pressure. Above all, NPI, which is about to become a recognised political party, seeks to mobilise Palestinian society at home and in exile for free elections - authentic elections which will represent Palestinian, rather than Israeli or US, interests. This sense of authenticity is what seems so lacking in the path cut out for Abu Mazen.

 

The vision here isn't a manufactured provisional state on 40 per cent of the land, with the refugees abandoned and Jerusalem kept by Israel, but a sovereign territory liberated from military occupation by mass action involving Arabs and Jews wherever possible. Because NPI is an authentic Palestinian movement, reform and democracy have become part of its everyday practice. Organisational meetings have already been held, with many more planned abroad and in Palestine, despite the terrible travel restrictions. It is some solace to think that, while formal negotiations and discussions go on, a host of informal, unco-opted alternatives exist, of which NPI and a growing international solidarity campaign are now the main components.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

You are a liar AND an idiot!

Wow great comeback! I'm shocked and amazed at your ability to cunningly debate with facts and evidence and not resort to puerile name calling.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

So there is a guy passing on secrets to Israel, but Israel has no guilt in the matter? They had no responsibility to inform the US? So any ally can spy on the US without any reprisal? Wow.

 

Apu, what do you think?

Tex, if Israel gets implicated by being actively involved in this then I seriously think the US should question the s***load of aid we give them. Do the same with any ally. If they're gonna be dicks then they can go f*** themselves and watch how fast these countries fall into line if the prospects of aid get cut.

[Gene Honda Civic]

You are a liar AND an idiot!

I just spit coke on my computer screen. Thanx.

 

[1549]

You are a liar AND an idiot!

Apu, did just got pwned!

[Texsox]

Tex, if Israel gets implicated by being actively involved in this then I seriously think the US should question the s***load of aid we give them.  Do the same with any ally.  If they're gonna be dicks then they can go f*** themselves and watch how fast these countries fall into line if the prospects of aid get cut.

I gotta agree. We have to protect our interests and when any other country, I don't care how cozy of a relationship we have, is trying to hurt US interests, I say we have to fight back. Withholding some financial aid seems like a great start. Since they seem to have enough money to spy on us, it shouldn't hurt too much.

 

And I would say the same if it was Canada, Spain, Great Britian, or Egypt.

 

We bend over backwards to keep Israel safe and then they feel the need to spy on us? With allies like that, who needs enemies?

[Texsox]

You are a liar AND an idiot!

Glad to see you kept your promise of no name calling.