Soxtalk Soundoff: Joe Crede

[Chisoxfn]

I thought it would be interesting to start making some posts on different players and see where they stand, so I'm going to start this feature with Joe Crede.

 

Crede is definately one of the more talked about players and he entered this season with high expectations. He obviously hasn't met those expectations and I think now is as good a time as any for all of us posters to give our take on Crede and whether we would keep him next year.

[Chisoxfn]

My Expectations: I have long been a Crede fan. I thought he showed huge signs in the 2nd half of last season and along with looking like an offensive threat, he was definately a defensive threat. I expected him to have a good year this year. He came to camp in good shape and it was just a matter of time before he lived up to his hype. I even went as far to compare him to a guy that could turn into a Scott Rolen..ie good defense, good power, clutch hitter. Now I never thought of Rolen as the guy that would have an MVP season (This year, although I don't know if he wins it or not).

 

My Take:

This season, rightfully so has to be considered garbage. I've seen all I can see of Crede. While I'd still consider myself a fan and I definately root for him to get out of his funk, I am also very frustrated. Whether he gets a fastball or a curveball, he has the same swing. If you notice, any fastball at the belt or higher that is even mediocre and Crede won't catch it, nor will he make the adjustment to shorten his swing. However, up until very recently Crede didn't let his defense suffer and I commend him for that.

 

Final Say:

While I think Crede has the talent. He definately has power, a good glove and has the ability to be clutch. Unfortunately, he lacks patience and has just an awful job with pitch recognition. Wow, does he look off and wow does he swing at awful pitches. On top of that, he will never amount to anything more then we see now, maybe a .250 hitter once he develops a little more patience and pitch awareness. His swing is just way too long to consistently drive the ball and be a good hitter.

 

My Solution:

I think now is when we should trade him. He still has value based soley on his potential and someone will take him and I think the Sox should be able to get something valuable for him. Now it won't be a proven player, unless as a part of a bigger trade, but the Sox should be able to get a guy or two with some serious raw ability or a left handed bat for the outfield to fit somewhere in the middle part of the order (This type of acquistion may involve another player).

 

At 3b, I would either give Uribe the shot, which is fine if the Sox add pitching (both starting and relieving) as well as a top of the order thread. I'd put Uribe somewhere around the 7th or 8th slot with Davis in that area as well and Willie in the 9 hole. I'd have a leadoff hitter and Rowand in the 2 hole most likely. However, if the Sox want, I'd also look to someone like Koskie or Bill Mueller. In Muellers cases he is very good defensively and would be an exceptional two hole hitter.

 

Buy or Sell: Buy

[DBAHO]

Crede is really an interesting story. Personally I think we need some new blood in at third. Even when Joe was struggling early in the season, I was defending him because I was telling everyone else, don't worry, he'll come around, he's a 2nd half hitter, but he hasn't done that at all this season, in fact he's not even an everyday player now. If we have an oppurtunity to get a Corey Koskie or Chone Figgins in this lineup, then we should do it in my opinion. Crede would be good trade bait to use, and I think most teams in the league would think they could turn him around.

[Hatchetman]

You have to assume he's not going to improve. Now if he's your #8 or #9 hitter, you can deal with that, especially since he's so cheap. This team needs to make some changes, however.

 

Except for that one big home run year in AAA, his minor league stats never suggested to me he'd be a star. (though he did win a couple league mvps - not that those mean a hell of a lot).

[WSoxShuf]

He should be in Seattle right now.

[jackie hayes]

I thought Crede would have a breakout season this year. I don't mean 'become a star' breakout, just .260 ba, .330 obp, .450 slg, something like that, which is where I thought he would consistently be. He has the ability to make great defensive plays, and for that alone I still enjoy watching him play.

 

But...he's been a huge disappointment, and he hasn't shown an ability to learn from his mistakes. Last year was a sophomore slump, this season should have been the rebound, as he figured out how teams threw to him. Instead, the pitchers have found even a few more holes in the zone (holes in the o-zone, as wide as the holes in the ozone, there's got to be a way to work that in... ). Maybe he will still improve -- his k/bb ratio got better over time in the minors. Then again, his ba was never this poor.

 

Personally, I would like to see the Sox shop around. I like Koskie, although he doesn't k much less than Crede. He draws a lot more walks, has a good obp. But he would have to be priced appropriately, since you can't count on a full season.

 

I wouldn't expect much for Crede, but you could probably get a role player or 1 or 2 low- or mid-level prospects.

[CWSOX45]

Trade him. I've heard he's become uncoachable.

 

If he can't shorten his swing he'll never reach that potential.

 

CWSOX45

[Palehosefan]

Crede seems too stubborn to me. As bad as he struggles, he never seems to change a thing. Everytime he's up there shallow flying to RF or getting fastballs blown by his swing with a hole in it. Both Borchard and Crede are two big guys that can't seem to understand their swings are too long, Walker is either blind to it or is going insane as they ignore him.

 

Defensively, Crede is very solid, I think that coupled with that fact that Crede has had power all throughout his minor league career, we can get something decent for Crede as another team grabs him and hopes they can fix his swing and get a gem. I would put Uribe at 3B also, but that unfortunately might give Robby Alomar more playing time(shivers).

[TLAK]

This thread got me thinking about a way to measure the negative impact of certain players on the offense. While Joe has gotten some big hits for the team this year, he has also been a bigger drag on the team than any other regular. Even bigger than the conventional stats show.

 

It seems to me that counting donuts, that is, games where the player got no hits and no walks identifies wasted games. Call it the collar or an Ofer but you might as well have a lawn jockey at the plate on those days. 4 days out of 10 Joe is just a hole in the line up. Only the Alomars (both of whom I think are cooked) are worse. Even the current whipping boys, Jose Valentin and Joe Borchard make some contribution to the offense more often.

 

Notes: I only counted games with more than 1 at bat to suppress pinch hitting appearances, it seems unfair to me to judge on only 1 appearance. Kelly Dransfeldt played 6 games and had 0 donuts. Jose Valentin accumulated 5 of his 22 donuts in his last 13 games, ouch!

[israel4ever]

Crede sucks!

[Hatchetman]

That's an interesting table tlak.

[Palehosefan]

Thats scary that Robby has a donut in over half his games. Well not scary, just sad. He's the Mike Jackson of the lineup.

[soxman352000]

If he can't shorten his swing he'll never reach that potential.

 

CWSOX45

You stole my thunder

[hammerhead johnson]

This thread got me thinking about a way to measure the negative impact of certain players on the offense.  While Joe has gotten some big hits for the team this year, he has also been a bigger drag on the team than any other regular.  Even bigger than the conventional stats show.

 

It seems to me that counting donuts, that is, games where the player got no hits and no walks identifies wasted games.  Call it the collar or an Ofer but you might as well have a lawn jockey at the plate on those days. 4 days out of 10 Joe is just a hole in the line up.  Only the Alomars (both of whom I think are cooked) are worse. Even the current whipping boys, Jose Valentin and Joe Borchard make some contribution to the offense more often.

 

Notes:  I only counted games with more than 1 at bat to suppress pinch hitting appearances, it seems unfair to me to judge on only 1 appearance.  Kelly Dransfeldt played 6 games and had 0 donuts.  Jose Valentin accumulated 5 of his 22 donuts in his last 13 games, ouch!

Those are some kick ass statistics, man. Ya gotta love Frank Thomas. The man is obviously past his prime, but he still puts up some mind-boggling type stats when healthy. I'd like to see Frank's career donut %.

[jeremyb]

Trade Crede and a prospect to Marlins (3-way deal?) for Mota and then go after Beltre as Magglio's replacement. In our park, with Lee and Konerko protecting him, Beltre would put up sick #, with a very good D to boot.

 

That allows you to get rid of Everett and Valentin and not lament over loss of power.

[hammerhead johnson]

Trade Crede and a prospect to Marlins (3-way deal?) for Mota and then go after Beltre as Magglio's replacement. In our park, with Lee and Konerko protecting him, Beltre would put up sick #, with a very good D to boot.

 

That allows you to get rid of Everett and Valentin and not lament over loss of power.

Are you drunk?

[WilliamTell]

I say let him play the rest of the season, and if there is any possible third basemen out on the market, like Koskie, go for him or try to trade Crede or something. I like this kid but he's not getting it done and I doubt he'll be able to change it around this year. His future is also a possible bust as well.

[megs04sox]

crede seems like he doesn't care. he never shows any emotion. all-in-all, he's very irritating to watch.

[danman31]

Crede is a head case with loads of talent. He will either make it with the Sox or he will make it with someone else. However, he is having a terrible season. He is last in the AL in RISP OPS.

 

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Edited August 28, 2004 by danman31

[Texsox]

Crede?

[knightni]

 

 

mmmmmmm....donuts.

 

 

[WilliamTell]

crede seems like he doesn't care. he never shows any emotion. all-in-all, he's very irritating to watch.

 

Part of that is I think that's kind of his personality, quiet and laid back. But he doesn't really seem to care and I do too find him irritating to watch at times. I agree with Megs on this one.

[YASNY]

I don't know, guys. Call it hunch, but I think Crede is jsu having one of the "bad years" like Konerko had last year. I can't argue the point, nor do I have anything to back it up. At least with PK, he had shown over the course of a few seasons that he could do the job. Crede has only shown flashes. I'd like to give him one more shot at it before we give up on him.

[SoxAce]

I don't know, guys.  Call it hunch, but I think Crede is jsu having one of the "bad years" like Konerko had last year.  I can't argue the point, nor do I have anything to back it up.  At least with PK, he had shown over the course of a few seasons that he could do the job.  Crede has only shown flashes.  I'd like to give him one more shot at it before we give up on him.

Agreed.

[YASNY]

Agreed.

Wow. I thought I'd get slammed for my opinion, not agreed with.