Soxtalk Soundoff: Joe Crede

[Chisoxfn]

TLAK, those are some awesome stats.

[witesoxfan]

I have no problem with getting rid of Crede. If we would not contend next year, it would be obvious to keep him, but I do believe that KW will make 1 or 2 last pushes to make the team a playoff team, and I believe Crede will be dealt. I also see him being replaced, and for that matter, he will be replaced easily. As I have mentioned before, resigning Jose is always an option, and then letting him hit solely against RHP...there's Beltre if you want to pony up the money and see if he can have another MVP season(which is a possibility, but could involve getting rid of Konerko or Lee). You can sign Koskie, who will probably be a FA, you could put in Uribe at hope he does not get into an extended cold streak, like he has every year of his career, or you see what Cleveland does with Casey Blake. He is having a very solid year, and there are others who could take his place in Cleveland. I personally think they will just end up making him the full-time DH with Boone playing 3B for them next year, but perhaps he could be let go, and if he is, the Sox should snatch him very quickly...stick it to both Minnesota and Cleveland with that move.

 

Keeping him is also an option, but if he doesn't break out next year and have atleast a fast start, his value will drop very quickly...people usually use 3 years as a measuring stick for players(which is why Jon Garland is getting so much s*** for being so s***ty in his 3rd full year as a starter, and why people want to get rid of him). Basically, if you don't trade him, you lose a ton of what you could have...but you could also get lucky and he could have a very good start, and you could have a cheap, good 3Bman.

 

 

 

As I think you probably know, I don't think you take the risk...trade him as part of a package and get a good player...preferably a solid reliever.

[dasox24]

TLAK, those are some awesome stats.

Hell yeah they are! They're very interesting. I've never seen the "donut" stat before.

[hammerhead johnson]

Here it is, based on RetroSheet.  Frank is an amazing player.

11% career donut rate? Wow. I wonder what Slammin' Sammy's career donut rate is. Probably damn near 30%.

 

I'm just going to assume that Ted Williams has the lowest ever donut rate. It's gotta be Ted....

[jeremyb]

Unfortunately, adding another right handed offensive threat shouldn't be a priority, especially when considering pitching.

 

1. Sox are horrible against lefties. A RH hitter is just what the doctor ordered.

2. In the 21st century AL, when games are often decided by a 8-6 score, hitting is almost as big a priority as pitching is. And by "hitting" I mean OBP and Slugging, not sacrifice bunts.

3. Beltre is Beltre. 10-11 M for a Gold-Glove-fielding, all-field slugger who is just 25yo? Where do I sign? You do realize that Magglio was making 14M, right?

 

Getting Beltre shouldn't preclude the Sox from going after a lead-off hitter, a front-line starter and a BP arm. Always striving for balance.

[qwerty]

1.  Sox are horrible against lefties.  A RH hitter is just what the doctor ordered.   

2.  In the 21st century AL, when games are often decided by a 8-6 score, hitting is almost as big a priority as pitching is. And by "hitting" I mean OBP and Slugging, not sacrifice bunts.

3.  Beltre is Beltre.  10-11 M for a Gold-Glove-fielding, all-field slugger who is just 25yo? Where do I sign? You do realize that Magglio was making 14M, right?

 

Getting Beltre shouldn't preclude the Sox from going after a lead-off hitter, a front-line starter and a BP arm. Always striving for balance. 

You are pipe dreaming still. Beltre is once more not worth 10 million dollars a year. Wait to some stupid team next year signs him for 10-12 million a year and he sucks ass again. Many players are great in their contracts years and implode the next.

[SoxAce]

You are pipe dreaming still. Beltre is once more not worth 10 million dollars a year. Wait to some stupid team next year signs him for 10-12 million a year and he sucks ass again. Many players are great in their contracts years and implode the next.

Agreed.

[hammerhead johnson]

And let's suppose for a minute that Beltre is indeed the real deal. The Sox NEVER go after anyone like that.

[jeremyb]

And let's suppose for a minute that Beltre is indeed the real deal.  The Sox NEVER go after anyone like that.

'Never' is such a strong word. I'd be careful.

[hammerhead johnson]

'Never' is such a strong word. I'd be careful.

Okay then, maybe you can tell me all about the big name free agents that we've gone after throughout the Reinsdorf era. And I don't want to hear about Albert Belle.

[Gene Honda Civic]

1.  Sox are horrible against lefties.  A RH hitter is just what the doctor ordered.   

2.  In the 21st century AL, when games are often decided by a 8-6 score, hitting is almost as big a priority as pitching is. And by "hitting" I mean OBP and Slugging, not sacrifice bunts.

Sox have been inexplicably horrible this season vs. LHP... but I don't think that's a worry for next season.

 

OPS vs LHP (career/2004)

 

FT - 1.114/.840 (batted only .200 this season)

PK - .823/.910 - (had the biggest difference in splits(RHP/LHP) in baseball in 2003)

AR - .919/1.080

CL - .777/.955

JC - .770/.666

MO - .944/.913

JU - .744/.801 -- Batting .240 -- He's not as bad as I thought.

 

 

The problem lies in the middle of the infield against LHP.

 

JV - .568/.547

WH- .448/.471

CE - .698/.555

 

Add a catcher and Ross Gload/Timo Perez/Carl Everett and there's some automatic outs against lefties. But those are so bad, they aren't hard to upgrade to decent hitters.

[beck72]

Now thats a deal I would definately consider, especially if the Sox could find some high value for Konerko.  Maybe swap Konerko for a good hitting left handed bat. 

 

But in general, what I would do with Crede is swap him for another youngster that could fill a different need for the Sox.  I guarantee this much, he'll have value on the market.

Konerko would probably go to a contending team for prospects [maybe who start the year in AAA or AA and could help late in the year, which is what the Sox need in case of injuries to guys on the major league roster].

 

A young guy like Crede could land another young player who would start the year for the Sox. He has value because he should be around the league for years to come. In no way should the Sox just "give" Crede away for some has been or long shot prospect. Crede on a lower payroll, long shot for the playoffs team would be a decent fit. That's why I was thinking the Expos.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I have yet to chime in on the subject, but I was out last night with a cub fan, and I remembered a conversation we had at about the same time last season.

 

We were arguing who had the better players at each position. And I was championing Joe Crede over Arimas Ramirez. At the time that didn't seam like a stretch. Crede was hitting well in the second half of his first full season, and Arimas was on his way to leading the majors in errors. To me it seemed an Obvious decision.

 

Crede would project to improve. Ramirez already had 4 full seasons of lackluster play in the majors. Crede was better at that point last season, and he would be even better in the next season.

 

Well next season is here, and I've seen nothing from Crede that resembles improvement. In fact, he looks worse in almost every phase of the game. Meanwhile Ramirez is anchor in the Cubs line-up, and his play at third base is vastly improved.

 

There's two lessons to be learned from this. 1) You can't always assume improvement. (the Caruso Lessson) and 2) You can't always give up on a player too soon. (Ramirez Lesson)

 

It's a tough dichotomy; you can't assume improvement, but you don't wanna give up before that improvement comes.

 

So I guess my view has changed slightly, from ship him out at all costs, to keep him while he's cheap, but don't hurt your team in the process. If Joe has to ride the pine, so be it. Platoon, fine. Joe can't hit LHP anyways.