Chisoxfn Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I'll start off a new soundoff My Expectations: Like many, I expected Jon Garland to break out this year. The facts are that he pitched very good for a stretch this season, but has been absolutely brutal as of late. I have some definate concerns by the way he has pitched down this stretch this year and that he is obviously lacking in confidence or something. I don't think you can really say much of a positive about this season, other then its another year under his belt and that hopefully he'll finish the season healthy. I thought Garland could become a great #3 or a good #2 and even after this year, I still have that thought. My Take: While Garland has really bothered me as of late (his pitching performances), I still see so many things a like. He can make things look so easy and I do think he can get over the "one bad inning". Plus, he's cheap and hopefully the Sox will have him penciled in as a #5 starter, I mean, the guy is a great #5 starter and I still believe he can turn into a #2 or 3. Final Say: Garland shouldn't be dealt. A year ago, I would of said the Sox should of given him a long term extension at this point in his career, but now I'd probably go with a one or two year deal, unless you can sign him to an affordable deal for the next 3 to 4 years with some incentives and what not. In that case, I'd go for it cause I still think the odds are pretty good that Jon pans out. I know one thing, if JG is the teams #5 starter, the Sox should be pretty good and us fans should be pretty happy. Buy or Sell: Buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 My thought on Garland is he has the million dollar arm and the 10 cent head kind of thing. Until he learns how to pitch over mistakes or gets that intestinal fortitude to compete the whole time and stops giving up the big ass inning every game. He will be what he is... a #5 at best pitcher. I myself could do without him on the team. If the Sox can trade him away and get something good for him then Id be all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I'm gonna be the big o-mist here. I say Jon figures something out next year and wins 12-15 games. Over the last few years he's been more consitent than any other starter.....you can expect him to work mid to late into games and here and there with the occasional studly outing. I'm buying here. Jason, on a side note, we could do these like on Around the Horn...."Buy or Sell: Jon Garland" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 Thats a pretty good idea...i'll add that to the bottom of my post. Maybe everyone else can as well. Also, at the end of all these, I'll put them in the archive so we can all look back at em at some point next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 My thoughts are similar to yours Jason. I expected Jon to finally break out and have that 14-15 win season with an era around 4. I see Jon with good stuff and better control than he had in the past. I see a 24 year old that helps himself out by being a great fielder also. But then I see the K's per 9 innings not even at 5 for most of his career. I see pitches left up in the zone and big innings killing him. I see him blaming teammates for mistakes. I see Jon creating a gap between himself and the fans by saying they have been on him since he arrived. I see Jon not only NOT stepping up when we need him, but in his last 18 starts he has been even worse. But then again I do see Jon as a 24 year old with alot of MLB experience and still unfilled potential. He has the potential to be a Derek Lowe type pitcher, when Lowe was good :-). I'm just frustrated from this entire season and I'm probably too hard on Garland, I just want so much for him and this team to be better. He would be a great 5th starter next year with no pressure on him. Maybe that potential will finally be realized. Maybe not. Right now I'm gonna buy Garland, because we have no reason to trade him, wouldn't get a whole lot, and we don't have an abundance of starters as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Hint to the voters: "Sell" means you don't want Garland, "Buy" means you want to keep him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 JGar! He will put it together, he is still only 24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 JGar! He will put it together, he is still only 24. Exactly, danman. All you have to do is consider his age & there's no way that you can vote "sell" at this point. No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Im going to have to go with everyone else here. Im not big of a Garland fan. I was for a while, but he really has let me down. To me, his role on the team next year has to be number 5. KW has to bring someone in here that is a 1-3. If he does, and Jon goes to number 5, I will MORE THAN HAPPY to have Jon win us 12, and go 12-12 or something like that. Not a problem. BTW Jester, I LOVE MORGAN WEBB, when is she doing Playboy? All I know is Morgan can't do playboy soon enough...LoL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Buy. Still only 24, will probably be a late bloomer, and has some experience under him. Leave him but only as a 4th or 5th and let him work his way up to be a top of the rotation type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Well the thought on Garland figuring it all out has been stated every year since he has been here. Yes he is only 24 and may get it eventually. Although he is showing more signs of regressing more than progression thus far IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I ain't buying or selling, I'm waiting. Look Garland has all the talent in the world. Late 2002, him and Dan Wright really came round at the end of the year, and we all thought he was taking the next step. He can wow you with 1 performance like last year's at Fenway, and annoy the hell out of ya with another, like today's against the Tribe. My thoughts are we keep him for another season, and bump him down to the #5 spot, and sign a bonafide #1 or #2 starter in the off-season. He'll hav less pressure on his shoulders at the bottom of the rotation, and all we'll need from him is to win 10 to 12 games down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I'm willing to give Garland a shot in 2006 if he happens to suck next year as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 For how many years have we said "this is garland's year..." he's not going to be any better than he is right now...i don't look forward to his starts. SELL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Buy. 5th starter. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 He's a 5th starter. What is a 5th starter worth in $$ terms? What will Garland get paid next year? I'm guessing this adds up to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 He's a 5th starter. What is a 5th starter worth in $$ terms? What will Garland get paid next year? I'm guessing this adds up to sell. He's making $2,300,000 this season, I think he may get up to $4 million next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I doubt he gets over the 3 Million Mark myself. You have to figure three factors: Is he worth 3 Mil putting up solid 4th Starter numbers in the 5th spot? IMO, YES! Does he have the potential to do more and time to improve? He's 24, no question this is a yes! Who do we have to replace him? If any of you think that JR and KW are going to buy 2 solid starters on the free agent market then you are sadly mistaken. He would be replaced by Diaz more then likely if we got rid of him. As much as I like Diaz he couldn't carry Jon's jock at this stage of his career. Not all of our pitchers are going to be aces. Jon gives us a chance to win with almost every start he has. DJ spoke the truth when he said that Jon has been the most consistant at giving up only 3 or 4 runs a start. When your losing a good majority of those games then thats a sign that your offense needs help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I look at Jon Garland and see Kip Wells. Almost all of the same critisisms were laid at Kips feet while he was on the southside. All he needed was that change of scenery to start to realize some of his potential. But the problem is I don't think Jon is going to take that next step while he is in this organization. As GM I would put him up for bid, but I would look for a lot to get him. There are teams that would love to have a guy with Jon's stuff at the middle to back of their rotation. Teams like Boston and New York are going to be looking for pitching in the off season, so the market is out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringfieldFan Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 JGar! He will put it together, he is still only 24. Once again, we hear the he is "only ___ years old" explanation. No offense, but what makes this valid reasoning now? Thing about it: we are rightly optimistic about the futures of typical 24 year olds. We know they don't physically develop after 24, so we conclude it must be mental. In other words, we are optimistic about typical 24 year olds (even if they suck) because they still have to mature and learn how to pitch at the MLB level. However, mental maturity and wisdom really come from experience rather then physical age. It just so happens typical 24 year olds haven't had the opportunity to get that experience. Now lets turn to Jon Garland specifically. He is only 24 but he is not typical - he has been around for 4 years. Therefore, unlike typical 24 year olds, he has had the opportunity to get the experience to mentally mature and learn. So if you are still optimistic, there must be something else about his age hindering him that you think he can still conquer in the future. What is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Jon Garland's first three full seasons as a starter: 2002- 4.58 ERA; 5.23 K/9; .752 OPS; 1.41 WHIP 2003- 4.51 ERA; 5.07 K/9; .762 OPS; 1.37 WHIP 2004- 4.79 ERA; 4.63 K/9; .765 OPS; 1.36 WHIP Garland has only shown slightly improved control in his first three season as a full time starter...Pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I look at Jon Garland and see Kip Wells. Kip Wells had a 96 mph fastball and a very good curveball, it was just a matter of him throwing enough strikes. Garland lives and dies with his sinker, and when he tries to throw strikes with other pitches, he gets hit hard. Garland's talents have been greatly overstated. DBAH0, why should Garland get a raise again? He is making about 2M now and is having a 5.00+ ERA, sub-.500 W-L season. Retaininng him as a promising 5th starter at 2M is one thing. 4M is out of the question - Mark "82 wins, 36 losses" Mulder is making 4 M this year for crying out loud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1549 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Kip Wells had a 96 mph fastball and a very good curveball, it was just a matter of him throwing enough strikes. Garland lives and dies with his sinker, and when he tries to throw strikes with other pitches, he gets hit hard. Garland's talents have been greatly overstated. DBAH0, why should Garland get any raise again? He is making about 2M now and is having a 5.00+ ERA, sub-.500 W-L season. Retaininng him as a promising 5th starter at 2M is one thing. 4M is out of question - Mark "82 wins, 36 losses" Mulder is making 4 M this year for crying out loud! hey now...thats a 4.79 ERA to you mister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremyb Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 hey now...thats a 4.79 ERA to you mister Right now it stands at the spectacular 4.91 but during Sunday's game it hit 5.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I say SELL! It's getting real old. Yes, he's only 24, but with 4 years of experience. If the guy would ever learn to pitch inside consistently, I'd say buy, but if can't/won't pitch inside, give him his walking papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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