Realization Is Sinking In

[southsider2k5]

I looked at PA's

(PA's, HR's)

Ruth -- 10617, 714 = 1 every 14.87 PA's

Aaron -- 13940, 755 = 1 every 18.46 PA's

Bonds -- 11462, 696 = 1 every 16.46 PA's

Interesting stat, but how does that look without walks factored in?

[EvilJester99]

Walks don't count as ABs correct?

[Texsox]

IIRC walks counted as official ABs when Ruth was playing. Was that stat adjusted?

[ZoomSlowik]

Two good points I heard yesterday:

 

1.  Whether or not he was on steroids before, he's not on them now because of testing and all the attention being payed to him.  I don't see how he could get away with it now.

 

2.  Why is he taking days off when the Giants are in the thick of a divison/wild card race?  They need every game, he needs to suck it up and play.  He sat out yesterday and they lost by a run (because of the bullpen, but still).

Point number one is not neccesarily true. If you are already cheating by using steroids you can get around testing without much more difficulty, especially if you get advice from someone that knows what they are doing. There are still several types that can not be detected. Even if you use on of the ones that is, you can use in the offseason and cycle off before the season, since the MLB does not have random offseason testing. Even assuming that he stopped taking them(of course one would have to assume he used them, which seems to be the case), one can still feel the effects for some time after stopping, and he would still be benefitting from the increased body mass. As long as you don't screw up your dosage and cycling off(cough cough, Giambi), you can use them and benefit from them without any of the problems like withdrawal or positive tests.

 

I really don't put Bonds in that list of greatest hitters ever. The whole steroids thing just really kills it. When you look at it, he was a very good but not outstanding hitter before his age 37 power surge. His career high was 46 before 2000, and even with the performance of his last few years his career batting average is still under .300. I'm sick of hearing about his .600 plus on base percentage too, that has little to do with his batting eye, and not a ton to do with his hitting ability. People make it sound like this alone makes him one of the best ever. It wouldn't be anywhere near that high if some of these pussies would pitch to him. He'd have a few more hits and homers, but the OBP would certainly drop because he would lose a ton of free bases. I'd love to see what guys like Ruth, Mays or Williams could do nowadays. When factoring in a much thinner group of pitching talent today(more starters used on more teams without the neccesary talent boost, plus more guys with suspect talent being used in the pen), not having to face spitballs and numerous other trick pitches, having the lower mound, being able to fly instead of take long train rides and the numerous other modern day ammenities for players, the opportunity to use steroids, someone eventually making Ruth get in better shape and stop drinking before games when he was younger, and Mays playing in a much smaller ball park(he played much of his career in a park that was 475 in the gaps and 480 to dead center), I think the numbers could be scary.

[southsider2k5]

I'd love to see what guys like Ruth, Mays or Williams could do nowadays. When factoring in a much thinner group of pitching talent today(more starters used on more teams without the neccesary talent boost, plus more guys with suspect talent being used in the pen), not having to face spitballs and numerous other trick pitches, having the lower mound, being able to fly instead of take long train rides and the numerous other modern day ammenities for players, the opportunity to use steroids, someone eventually making Ruth get in better shape and stop drinking before games when he was younger, and Mays playing in a much smaller ball park(he played much of his career in a park that was 475 in the gaps and 480 to dead center), I think the numbers could be scary.

This arguement is something that intreages me. Those guys also never saw specialty relief, $100 million contracts, splitters, sliders, and cutters either. They never had trash newsreporters to thrive on their exploits, and they never had the option of free agency. For everything that you can give that would give an advantage to a hitter, there are things in todays game that would blow the mind of an old time superstar.

[ZoomSlowik]

This arguement is something that intreages me.  Those guys also never saw specialty relief, $100 million contracts, splitters, sliders, and cutters either.  They never had trash newsreporters to thrive on their exploits, and they never had the option of free agency.  For everything that you can give that would give an advantage to a hitter, there are things in todays game that would blow the mind of an old time superstar.

I'm not sure how much of an effect some of that stuff would have on those guys. If anything I would think that giving them more money would make them happier and more productive, altough it is possible they would slack off and retire earlier. Free agency seems like it'd be the same for me, I would think they would welcome the opportunity to make more money and leave a bad situation(I imagine Williams would have loved to get out of Boston later in his career to get a ring). I'm not sure Ruth could slack off any more, he already supposedly played some games hungover/drunk. For the really great hitters specialty relief doesn't seem to have much of an effect. That whole lefty righty thing seems to be BS most of the time, and the manager just seems to use it to defend himself in bad situations. I really don't think seeing lefty relievers that in many cases shouldn't be on a roster would really affect Williams or Ruth. The pitches thing is interesting, but I would think they could adjust. There don't seem to be that many guys that can throw those pitches with great efficiency anyways, a lot of times it ends up looking like a slower fastball.