DBAHO Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 From the Southtown, Don Cooper knows Shingo Takatsu can close out games. Cooper, the White Sox pitching coach, has seen Takatsu accomplish that feat 14 out of the 15 chances he's had this season. Can Takatsu be a closer for an entire season? That's where Cooper has his doubts. "Closers for me are swing-and-miss guys," Cooper said. "Takatsu's more of a contact closer. He's going to get you outs with grounders, popouts, his savvy, his deception. But he's done a great job for us. "You've got (New York's Mariano) Rivera, you've got (Los Angeles' Eric) Gagne, (Minnesota's Joe) Nathan maybe — when those guys get into the game, it's basically over. If you don't have that type of guy you should keep your options open." That's why Sox general manager Ken Williams will be in search of another arm for the back end of his bullpen during the offseason. The Sox have used a bullpen by committee dating to 2002, when they had Keith Foulke and Damaso Marte sharing the load. Last season, Marte, Billy Koch and Tom Gordon each had opportunities. Takatsu, the all-time saves leader in Japan, has been the main closer this season for the Sox. That, however, might change over the final five weeks of the season. After compiling a streak of 26 2/3 consecutive scoreless innings from late April through June 29, Takatsu's changeup isn't as effective as it had been. The right-hander has an 8.68 ERA over his last 10 games. "We've already seen people jumping on the fastball early in the count," Cooper said. "Our countermove is to throw his Frisbee (changeup) and the Asian-eephus early in the count to get ahead, then keep them off balance with the fastball." Cooper isn't the only one to see the adjustments hitters have made. "Compared to the beginning of the year, the approach is much different from the hitters," Takatsu said. "In baseball, hitters learn pitchers and pitchers learn hitters. That's part of the game." The other factor that has the Sox concerned is the Japanese season has almost 20 fewer games than a major league season and Takatsu could simply be "hitting the wall." "He's getting up there as far as appearances," Cooper said. "We'd rather not bring him out in the eighth inning anymore, like we have a few other times. We'd rather he just have the ninth, and we might even start giving him some help in the ninth if there's a few lefties up. We'll see how it plays out." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Coop might be right, but whenever we brought him in during the eighth inning, it was because no one else could get us out of the eighth. Not counting early season appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsSuck1 Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 It wouldn't be very smnart of us not to use Shingo to close next season, because we have not had the best luck with hard throwers like Koch, but Shingo has got the job done pretty well. 14/15 is a pretty good conversion rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I don't believe Shingo is the answer for a whole season. Each of the teams in the AL Central will see us 19 times next year. How many times can Shingo use "deception" to get these same guys out time and time again? Shingo would be nice as a setup guy and a backup or occasional closer, but I don't want to count on him as our "stud" closer for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 :fyou Cooper. Just try and find someone better. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 :fyou Cooper. Just try and find someone better. :headshake Sorry Mr. Zero, but I think that is precisely what they have planned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Sorry Mr. Zero, but I think that is precisely what they have planned. Are we going to go out and sign a closer though. I think some possible free agents are Armando Benitez, Scott Williamson, Danny Graves and Troy Percival. We could also try and trade for John Smoltz which would allow Atlanta more payroll to resign J.D Drew, or everyday Eddie from Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Are we going to go out and sign a closer though. I think some possible free agents are Armando Benitez, Scott Williamson, Danny Graves and Troy Percival. We could also try and trade for John Smoltz which would allow Atlanta more payroll to resign J.D Drew, or everyday Eddie from Seattle. Forget Guardado .... He'll be out till July or August of next year. I don't know what they have planned, but I'd be very shocked if the come out of spring training with Shingo in the closer's role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Forget Guardado .... He'll be out till July or August of next year. I don't know what they have planned, but I'd be very shocked if the come out of spring training with Shingo in the closer's role. A lot of people would like us to sign Mota, would he succeed as a close though, or would we go to a 3 head horse in Shingo, Marte and Mota. Worst case scenario, if we don't sign anyone, Shingo comes back as the closer, and he's shown he can succeed in the job, it's not like we have a Botch size problem on our hands anymores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 A lot of people would like us to sign Mota, would he succeed as a close though, or would we go to a 3 head horse in Shingo, Marte and Mota. Worst case scenario, if we don't sign anyone, Shingo comes back as the closer, and he's shown he can succeed in the job, it's not like we have a Botch size problem on our hands anymores. You let the Twins, Tigers, Royals and Indians see him 10 or more times each next year, and you'll be wishing for Billy Koch back. EDIT: Ok, that's a bit much. But you get my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wise Master Buehrle Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Unless they sign a proven closer, this sucks. I don't want them to look for another flash in the pan closer that will throw 90 mph meatballs to Carlos Beltran and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 You let the Twins, Tigers, Royals and Indians see him 10 or more times each next year, and you'll be wishing for Billy Koch back. EDIT: Ok, that's a bit much. But you get my point. I wouldn't go that far, but there's no doubt Shingo won't be as effective next season as he was this season. Hasegawa from Seattle is a perfect example, he was an all - star last season, and hasn't had a good one at all in middle relief for the Mariners this year. There's no doubt we desperately need a guy who can pitch effectively CONSISTENTLY in the 8th and 9th innings. Problem is other teams like the Indians will be after this as well, so the Sox need to make sure they at least sign someone good, otherwise we'll be adding someone to the Rick White of 2003, and Mike Jackson of 2004 list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Unless they sign a proven closer, this sucks. I don't want them to look for another flash in the pan closer that will throw 90 mph meatballs to Carlos Beltran and stuff. KW has seen the light, so I'm sure he will sign a name reliever at least. But remember guys like Cotts and Adkins will probably improve next season as well, which will help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Shingo would be an incredible 8th inning guy if we had someone bringing serious heat out of the pen for the 9th. Not only would the contrast of speeds and angles make the closer all of the more dangerous, but then it would allow us to use Shingo in more key situations earlier in games when they are looking for a groundball DP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Shingo would be an incredible 8th inning guy if we had someone bringing serious heat out of the pen for the 9th. Not only would the contrast of speeds and angles make the closer all of the more dangerous, but then it would allow us to use Shingo in more key situations earlier in games when they are looking for a groundball DP. Just for sake of conversation, let me suggest that this thinking could backfire. Most ML hitters are most comfortable hitting a fastball. If Shingo throws a successful and frustrating ( to the opposition ) 8th inning, I'd think that opposing hitters would welcome a fastball pitcher in the 9th. They'd be back in a comfort zone, facing what they're used to. As we've seen with Koch, if a fastball doesn't have some serious movement, it's extremely easy to hit, even at 93mph. I'm all for a "traditional" closer, but only if the job gets done. Shingo's been doing the job. As far as adjusting to pitchers and then pitchers adjusting to the adjustments goes, that's the case with anyone, not just Shingo. He's a crafty pitcher, and he's been battling hard. He gets the 27th out when it's there to be had, and that's ALL I care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I'm all for having two options as closer as long as we aren't throwing Shingo out of the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 As long as he can throw the offspeed pitch for strikes, Shingo absolutely should be our closer next year too. Lately he's lost some control of that pitch, forcing him to throw mainly fastballs in hitters counts. I don't think there is anyone on the market that's better than Shingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Call me an idiot if you want (well, maybe you better not, new rules and all) but I think we can get Kyle Farnsworth relatively cheap...with the right coaching, and his 95+ mph heat, he can be a dmaned good closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Call me an idiot if you want (well, maybe you better not, new rules and all) but I think we can get Kyle Farnsworth relatively cheap...with the right coaching, and his 95+ mph heat, he can be a dmaned good closer. You can't teach a 98 mph fastball. It would be interesting to see what a change of scenery could do for the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 You can't teach a 98 mph fastball. It would be interesting to see what a change of scenery could do for the guy. a true statement. on a side note, we need another option in the rp, now that the league saw shingo, will he have the same success. i do not like the scenery of having marte come in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Suggesting we need somebody other than Shingo to close, somebody with the ability to deliver strikeouts and popups, is the easy part. Try finding somebody -- somebody who fits in the Sox budget. Interesting that Coop didn't have any names of replacement parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Suggesting we need somebody other than Shingo to close, somebody with the ability to deliver strikeouts and popups, is the easy part. Try finding somebody -- somebody who fits in the Sox budget. Interesting that Coop didn't have any names of replacement parts. Tampering is probably the biggest reason for that. Espesially after KW complained about people tampering with Maggs. I am sure Coop has a list of guys for Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Tampering is probably the biggest reason for that. Espesially after KW complained about people tampering with Maggs. I am sure Coop has a list of guys for Kenny. true, but lets look at the fa market, let alone the possibility of trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Call me an idiot if you want (well, maybe you better not, new rules and all) but I think we can get Kyle Farnsworth relatively cheap...with the right coaching, and his 95+ mph heat, he can be a dmaned good closer. Sign him to a one year deal. He only pitches well in odd numbered years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonxctf Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 i think part of Shingo's problems lately has also been due to a lack of consistent work in save opportunities. His ERA by months APRIL 3.86 MAY 0.00 JUNE 0.77 JULY 0.96 AUGUST 7.36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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