fantasy football team

[southsideirish]

hey irish you might want to realize that New Orleans and Atlanta are no in the same division as St. Louis so you might want to know a bit more about the NFL before you start destroying my picks

 

EDIT: they play ARIZONA and 49ers TWICE CMON!!

So sorry, jeeze! Still St Louis D/ST sucks ass. YOu could have done way better than that.

 

You asked me personally what I thought of your team and I let you know. Now you are mad because of my opinion? Then you nitpick one mistake I made. Whatever, St Louis D should not even be drafted as they are downright awful.

[southsideirish]

Yeah, southsideirish, stick to not knowin' things.

And what exactly have you known?

[hammerhead johnson]

And what exactly have you known?

That's right, avoid that post where I discussed how Ahman Green was behind a good 7 running backs in the majority of 2003 fantasy mock drafts.

 

You don't feel like looking into it? Go do an internet search and then contemplate your stupidity afterwards. Like I said, stick to not knowin' things. That's what you do best around here.

[southsideirish]

If you were to perform an internet search, you'd find that all of these running backs were listed ahead of him on the majority of 2003 Fantasy Mock Drafts.

 

Jamal Lewis

Clinton Portis

Ladanian Tomlinson

Priest Holmes

Shaun Alexander

Deuce McAllister

Ricky Williams

 

And in some cases:

 

Marshall Faulk

Edgerrin James

Fred Taylor

 

And that's only running backs...what about the impact QBs and WRs? 

 

I guess my real question to you is....why do you have to act like such an ignorant bastard?  Sorry for the personal attack, but seriously, you're a dope.

Ok, I would understand these cats being ranked ahead of Ahman Green last year:

 

Clinton Portis

Ladanian Tomlinson

Priest Holmes

Shaun Alexander

Deuce McAllister

Ricky Williams

Marshall Faulk

 

After that it is time for Green and in some cases he was ranked ahead of Alexander and McAllister. Jamal Lewis adn Edgerrin James were not ranked ahead of Green as they were 2 full years removed from serious injury and no one knew Jamal Lewis was going to do what he did last year. Fred Taylor was never ahead of Green last year because he has always been injury prone and no one wants that risk with their #1 pick or #1 RB.

 

Now, you have 8 RBs there including Green. What WR LAST YEAR, would you have taken ahead of Green? Anyone? Maybe Harrison, maybe Moss and that is it. What QB? I never saw Vick go in the first round last year. Maybe Culpepper and Manning, and that is a big Maybe.

 

Any mock draft or cheat sheet that had Green ranked 13th overall was a piece of s***.

 

I'm the ignorant bastard?

 

That's exactly right. I drafted Tomlinson and Green with my first two picks before the season started in 2003, and I absolutely slaughtered everyone in my league (12 teams). I mean, it wasn't even fair. I finished ahead of the second place team by more than 200 points (touchdowns = 6 points).

 

Always, always, always make the running game your #1 priority.

 

That is what you said. It is not always right to take a RB just to take one when you the top tier RBs are gone and you can get Moss and Culpepper and come back and get guys like T. Jones, C. Brown, and L. Suggs. This is a different year than last. Those RBs from last year are not there this year. There is the top five and then it drops off.

 

Just because I don't take a RB with my first 2 picks does not mean I don't make the running game my priority. 2nd round I take Culpepper, the 2nd best RUNNING QB behind only Vick. My next 3 picks are RBs, T. Jones, C. Brown, L. Suggs. I don't think it is wise to pick a RB in the 1st or 2nd round just so you can grab one. I would not want to be stuck with Travis Henry, Dominick Davis, Marshall Faulk, Kevan Barlow, Corey Dillon as my #1 RB and not have Culpepper on my team. I believe T. Jones can be just as good as any of those players and I think Moss can outproduce any RB that was taken after him. That is something no other WR can do.

 

Please make sure you know what you are talking about before you call anyone ignorant.

[southsideirish]

That's right, avoid that post where I discussed how Ahman Green was behind a good 7 running backs in the majority of 2003 fantasy mock drafts.

 

You don't feel like looking into it?  Go do an internet search and then contemplate your stupidity afterwards.  Like I said, stick to not knowin' things.  That's what you do best around here.

? :dips***

[hammerhead johnson]

Any mock draft or cheat sheet that had Green ranked 13th overall was a piece of s***.

Holy Mary Mother Of God, will you at least make an effort to look into these things? Every single mock draft I came across had Green ranked outside of the Top 15. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

 

You are easily the biggest clown on this message board.

[southsideirish]

Holy Mary Mother Of God, will you at least make an effort to look into these things?  Every single mock draft I came across had Green ranked outside of the Top 15.  EVERY SINGLE ONE. 

 

You are easily the biggest clown on this message board.

I looked and only found one that actually had him ranked that low. What are you smokin? Great, insults, whats next? You gonna sit in the corner and suck on your thumb like a little child as well?

[redandwhite]

Chill pills at the Soxtalk store are now restocked. I suggest you guys buy some.

[hammerhead johnson]

I looked and only found one that actually had him ranked that low. What are you smokin? Great, insults, whats next? You gonna sit in the corner and suck on your thumb like a little child as well?

Childish? You mean like calling people from my 2003 league dumbasses for letting Ahman Green slip to #13 overall? How childish is that?

 

You have a history of s*** like this, buddy. Don't think that I haven't noticed in my time here.

[hammerhead johnson]

Chill pills at the Soxtalk store are now restocked.  I suggest you guys buy some.

I've never really had issues with anyone at soxtalk before. But this guy is a jerkoff.

[southsideirish]

Childish?  You mean like calling people from my 2003 league dumbasses for letting Ahman Green slip to #13 overall?  How childish is that?

 

You have a history of s*** like this, buddy.  Don't think that I haven't noticed in my time here.

I have a history of this? One person and we have made our peace. I never called anyone dumbasses. I called them dummies. How that affects you I have no idea as I never called you a dummy. Whatever!

[ZoomSlowik]

Irish, I can't say that any of the runningbacks you took are a lock to get 1000 yards. Jones has a history of underachieving and his career high was about 700 last year, plus there is a chance that A-Train steals some carries if he ever gets off his ass. Brown has never been a starter before and god knows what they are going to do with that, especially since McNair is clearly the focus of that offense. Lee Suggs has skill, but who knows, the Browns seem to have an attachment to William Green, if he gets his s*** together he might not even start, much less do anything on that crappy offense. You obviously put way to much stock in what happens in the first quarter or so of a preseason game if you really thing that a guy who rushed for 1600 yards last year is not significantly better than a guy who wasn't even a full time starter. If you are saying that the fullback is such a big issue for Duece, how about the entire Bears line? Kruetz and Tait are fine, but the rest are either hurt or not so hot. Taking a QB in the first 2 rounds is just lunacy, especially if you pass on virtually any good running back. Culpepper is simply not going to score signifcantly more points than guys like Brooks or McNair, who get drafted much later, whereas someone like Dillon could make a huge impact compared to whatever other guys are there in the next round. I'm laying off of this after this post, since it is obviously an uphill climb. Feel free to ignore the advice of a guy that wins at least 2 leagues out of 8 every year and do what you want.

 

 

PS- I usually got Ahman Green in the late first to early second last year, somewhere between picks 10 and 15.

[hammerhead johnson]

PS- I usually got Ahman Green in the late first to early second last year, somewhere between picks 10 and 15.

Southsideirish,

 

You caught me in a bad mood yesterday, and I'm sorry for the personal attacks.

 

But seriously, Ahman Green had 9 touchdowns altogether in 2002 with a 4.3 per carry average. You can't see a guy with those slightly less than spectacular numbers plus a fumbling problem to boot going at #13 overall?

 

Then he went ahead and had a legendary year in 2003 with 20 touchdowns combined, a 5.3 per carry average, damn near 2000 yards rushing, and very few fumbles after he got rid of the leather (slippery) arm pad thingies. I could see him going #1 overall in a lot of drafts this year, but in the 2003 draft? #13 overall is not that hard to believe.

[southsideirish]

Southsideirish,

 

You caught me in a bad mood yesterday, and I'm sorry for the personal attacks.

 

But seriously, Ahman Green had 9 touchdowns altogether in 2002 with a 4.3 per carry average.  You can't see a guy with those slightly less than spectacular numbers plus a fumbling problem to boot going at #13 overall?

 

Then he went ahead and had a legendary year in 2003 with 20 touchdowns combined, a 5.3 per carry average, damn near 2000 yards rushing, and very few fumbles after he got rid of the leather (slippery) arm pad thingies.  I could see him going #1 overall in a lot of drafts this year, but in the 2003 draft?  #13 overall is not that hard to believe.

Honestly I can't see a player of Ahman Green's stature falling to #13 overall last year. I really can't. They only way is if you were with a bunch of people that hated the Packers and didn't want to touch him because they didn't want to root for him. That is understandable, however you have to learn to seperate fantasy sports and reality. You can always bench him when playing aginast your favorite team or root against the team he is playing for but hope he has a good game.

 

He may have had an average year in 2002 with and had a fumbling problem, but he had a lot of upside and fumbles usually don't hurt you in fantasy football. Very few league that I have been in and heard of have actually subtracted points from a player losing a fumble because it isn't the easiest thing to keep track of.

 

Apology accepted and I too am sorry.

[southsideirish]

Irish, I can't say that any of the runningbacks you took are a lock to get 1000 yards. Jones has a history of underachieving and his career high was about 700 last year, plus there is a chance that A-Train steals some carries if he ever gets off his ass. Brown has never been a starter before and god knows what they are going to do with that, especially since McNair is clearly the focus of that offense. Lee Suggs has skill, but who knows, the Browns seem to have an attachment to William Green, if he gets his s*** together he might not even start, much less do anything on that crappy offense. You obviously put way to much stock in what happens in the first quarter or so of a preseason game if you really thing that a guy who rushed for 1600 yards last year is not significantly better than a guy who wasn't even a full time starter. If you are saying that the fullback is such a big issue for Duece, how about the entire Bears line? Kruetz and Tait are fine, but the rest are either hurt or not so hot. Taking a QB in the first 2 rounds is just lunacy, especially if you pass on virtually any good running back. Culpepper is simply not going to score signifcantly more points than guys like Brooks or McNair, who get drafted much later, whereas someone like Dillon could make a huge impact compared to whatever other guys are there in the next round. I'm laying off of this after this post, since it is obviously an uphill climb. Feel free to ignore the advice of a guy that wins at least 2 leagues out of 8 every year and do what you want.

 

 

PS- I usually got Ahman Green in the late first to early second last year, somewhere between picks 10 and 15.

First of all you don't know the rules of my league to know if Culpepper will or will not score significantly better than Brooks (torn quad) and McNair (who is always broken down by the end of the season). Our point system gives 2 points for every 50 yeards passing and 2 points for every 20 yards rushing. 6 points per TD running or throwing. He is much more consistent than either of those 2 QBs you mentioned and could possibly be the fantasy MVP. Culpepper runs much more than either of those 2 QBs and scores more TDs than either of them and has stayed healthy for the better part of his career. Did you see who I passed on to get him? Any good RB? In between getting Culpepper (2nd round) and Jones (3rd round) the RBs there were Dominick Davis, Corey Dillon, Stephen Davis, Travis Henry and Kevan Barlow. Except for Barlow and Dillon each of those backs may be splitting carries. Barlow is still a question mark and Dillon is way over rated and too inconsistent. You are way off base here.

 

Second, the Bears are running a version of the KC/STL offense correct? One thing we have learned from these 2 offenses is that the RB IS the focal point. The RB has become a FANTASY STUD in both offenses. Marshall Faulk was already very good, but no one would have guessed he would ever have put up those types of numbers. Preist Holmes? An undrafted FA with Baltimore who showed some promise but became a backup to Jamal Lewis. No one else even gave him a contract offer during his FA year when KC signed him. He lasted a long time as other FA RBs were being signed, he was not on anyone's wish list. I have a lot of faith in Thomas Jones and have no fear of A train stealing away any carries. That is just a laugh.

 

Lee Suggs has more talent in his big toe than William Green has in his whole body. William Green brings a new meaning to Mr. Green and simply has too much trouble running with the ball with Billy BONG Thorton snuggled under his shoulder pads.

 

Chris Brown looked good last year and has continued to impress this year. I have no doubt that he will be a good one.

 

Julius Jones should take over the job from Eddie George permanently by week 6. Stephen Jackson should take over for Marshall Faulk sometime this year as Faulk is really looking old and his knees are gone.

 

I wouldn't touch Dillon with a ten foot pole as Bilicheck has not even decided how he will use his RBs yet and he has not shown a thing in 2,3 years and when he has it was very inconsistent. In 2001 he had over 1300 yards but only 4 100 yard games and scored 10 TDs. In 2002 he had 1300 yards but had only 5 100 yard games and scored only 7 TDs. Last year he was just awful. I would be much more worried about my chances if I had no Culpepper, no TJ, but had Moss, Dillon and Brooks. That would make me sick to my stomach.

 

If you like Deuce so much then please take him and see how far he gets you as a #1 back. I think as a number 2 RB he is great and will take you far, but as my #1 I would be just as satisfied as taking Moss #1 and coming back to get either Kevan Barlow or Thomas Jones a round or 2 later. TO ME his price is way too high and he will not be worth the pick you spend on him.

 

I am willing to bet you right now that barring injury Thomas Jones, Chris Brown and Lee Suggs all go over 1000 yards.

 

Another thing, if a RB averages 6.5 yards a carry against 3 other starting defenses, no matter when it is, it should make you take notice. This line is a very good run blocking line with Tait, Brown, Kreutz, Gandy, and Mitchell. It will be even better if Columbo and Tucker come back healthy.

 

Dude, I could care less how many leagues you win or how many you are in. I have played for 12 years in many different leagues. Your advice is solid, but honestly you should know something about the scoring of a league before you start making comparisons and rash judgements. Culpepper will outscore both those QBs by a very significant margin. The only one that came even close to him last year was Peyton Manning, as they were neck and neck. Other than that it wasn't even close.

 

I was able to get the best QB and possible fantasy football MVP with my 2nd round pick, with my first rounder I was able to get the best WR, bar none, in fantasy football and with my 3rd pick I was able to get a back that will be playing the Preist Holmes/Marshall Faulk role. I would much rather take my chances on Culpepper, Jones, Brown, and Moss than say Aaron Brooks, Deuce McAllister, Corey Dillon, and Joe Horn (3rd round WR).

 

I was in 3 leagues last year and I am in 3 leagues this year. Ahman Green did not make it out of the top 10 last year in any of my leagues and this year never made it out of the top 5.

 

Good luck to you in all your leagues this year.

[ZoomSlowik]

First of all you don't know the rules of my league to know if Culpepper will or will not score significantly better than Brooks (torn quad) and McNair (who is always broken down by the end of the season). Our point system gives 2 points for every 50 yeards passing and 2 points for every 20 yards rushing. 6 points per TD running or throwing. He is much more consistent than either of those 2 QBs you mentioned and could possibly be the fantasy MVP. Culpepper runs much more than either of those 2 QBs and scores more TDs than either of them and has stayed healthy for the better part of his career. Did you see who I passed on to get him? Any good RB? In between getting Culpepper (2nd round) and Jones (3rd round) the RBs there were Dominick Davis, Corey Dillon, Stephen Davis, Travis Henry and Kevan Barlow. Except for Barlow and Dillon each of those backs may be splitting carries. Barlow is still a question mark and Dillon is way over rated and too inconsistent. You are way off base here.

 

Second, the Bears are running a version of the KC/STL offense correct? One thing we have learned from these 2 offenses is that the RB IS the focal point. The RB has become a FANTASY STUD in both offenses. Marshall Faulk was already very good, but no one would have guessed he would ever have put up those types of numbers. Preist Holmes? An undrafted FA with Baltimore who showed some promise but became a backup to Jamal Lewis. No one else even gave him a contract offer during his FA year when KC signed him. He lasted a long time as other FA RBs were being signed, he was not on anyone's wish list. I have a lot of faith in Thomas Jones and have no fear of A train stealing away any carries. That is just a laugh.

 

Lee Suggs has more talent in his big toe than William Green has in his whole body. William Green brings a new meaning to Mr. Green and simply has too much trouble running with the ball with Billy BONG Thorton snuggled under his shoulder pads.

 

Chris Brown looked good last year and has continued to impress this year. I have no doubt that he will be a good one.

 

Julius Jones should take over the job from Eddie George permanently by week 6. Stephen Jackson should take over for Marshall Faulk sometime this year as Faulk is really looking old and his knees are gone.

 

I wouldn't touch Dillon with a ten foot pole as Bilicheck has not even decided how he will use his RBs yet and he has not shown a thing in 2,3 years and when he has it was very inconsistent. In 2001 he had over 1300 yards but only 4 100 yard games and scored 10 TDs. In 2002 he had 1300 yards but had only 5 100 yard games and scored only 7 TDs. Last year he was just awful. I would be much more worried about my chances if I had no Culpepper, no TJ, but had Moss, Dillon and Brooks. That would make me sick to my stomach.

 

If you like Deuce so much then please take him and see how far he gets you as a #1 back. I think as a number 2 RB he is great and will take you far, but as my #1 I would be just as satisfied as taking Moss #1 and coming back to get either Kevan Barlow or Thomas Jones a round or 2 later. TO ME his price is way too high and he will not be worth the pick you spend on him.

 

I am willing to bet you right now that barring injury Thomas Jones, Chris Brown and Lee Suggs all go over 1000 yards.

 

Another thing, if a RB averages 6.5 yards a carry against 3 other starting defenses, no matter when it is, it should make you take notice. This line is a very good run blocking line with Tait, Brown, Kreutz, Gandy, and Mitchell. It will be even better if Columbo and Tucker come back healthy.

 

Dude, I could care less how many leagues you win or how many you are in. I have played for 12 years in many different leagues. Your advice is solid, but honestly you should know something about the scoring of a league before you start making comparisons and rash judgements. Culpepper will outscore both those QBs by a very significant margin. The only one that came even close to him last year was Peyton Manning, as they were neck and neck. Other than that it wasn't even close.

 

I was able to get the best QB and possible fantasy football MVP with my 2nd round pick, with my first rounder I was able to get the best WR, bar none, in fantasy football and with my 3rd pick I was able to get a back that will be playing the Preist Holmes/Marshall Faulk role. I would much rather take my chances on Culpepper, Jones, Brown, and Moss than say Aaron Brooks, Deuce McAllister, Corey Dillon, and Joe Horn (3rd round WR).

 

I was in 3 leagues last year and I am in 3 leagues this year. Ahman Green did not make it out of the top 10 last year in any of my leagues and this year never made it out of the top 5.

 

Good luck to you in all your leagues this year.

Okay, I lied.

 

Dude, the rules of the league don't matter that much when comparing players at the same position since everyone plays under the same standards. If rushing yards are ridiculously slanted that's one thing, but they aren't. That's actually a pretty standard scoring system, it is the same as what is in yahoo. Here are the number of points scored by Culpepper, Brooks and McNair last year under that scoring system.

 

Culpepper- 219

McNair- 207(guess he's not exactly head and shoulders above, huh?, Favre, Hassleback and Green were in this range too, at 207, 207, and 204)

Brooks- 181

 

Culpepper did miss two games, so that helps a bit, but assuming average outings both times, that would come out to around 240. Virtually every starting fantasy QB had 170. Compared to RB's, there were only 7 that got over 160 points, and only 15 that broke 100 points, when you need at least 20 starters in a league. Tomlinson put up a healthy 204, while McAllister put up 133, despite a medicore touchdown year with 8. There was a 60 point difference between Duece and the number 25 back(which by the numbers is the top 3rd back), even with a bad year. All you need is about 3 more TD's(highly possible) and he moves into that elite area. With that many touches he is bound to score more. In order to make a fair comparison in fantasy football, you need to use the 13th rated QB, since numberwise that would be the best bench player, which is Donovan McNabb. He had a terrible year last season and still had 152. That's about a 70 point difference even counting a very good year from Culpepper and a subpar year for McNabb(he scored more points in 10 games the previous year). Also, Culpepper isn't that "consistent." He missed two games last year and 5 in 2001. His passing touchdown totals in his four years have been 33, 14, 18, and 25. His INT totals have been 16, 13, 23, and 11. His passing totals have been 3927, 2612, 3853, and 3479. Rushing is 470, 416, 609, and 422. Rushing TD's 7, 5, 10, and 4. There are some pretty big disparities in there. I would say that it is far from a lock that he will pass for 3500 and 25(even with running stats), which would be what you need to solidfy his draft spot. Manning would have made much more sense if that was your train of thought, barring injury those numbers are bare minimum for Peyton, who outscored Culpepper by 12 by the way.

 

As for the runningbacks you mentioned, just about all of them are almost a lock to get 1000 and 8. Davis might be losing some carries, but he also only played 14 games and had fewer than 10 carries in 3 others. That won't happend again. Henry might split time some, but he is still going to get 20 touches a game, and McGahee is far from a certainty to make it through the season. Even if Henry loses 200 yards and 2 touchdowns(pretty drastic since he is in all likelyhood still going to get the bulk of the carries), he would outscore most RB's. Barlow played in all 16, but had fewer than 10 carries in 6 of them. He basically is the 49'er offense this year, he is going to get a ton of carries since their passing game looks mediocre. Stephen Davis is similar to Henry. He'll still get around 20 carries and a few throws a game. Carolina is going to rely heavily on the running game, so there will be plenty of carries to go around. Plus he is much more likely to get goal line carries due to his style, and Foster has had injury and production problems for a while now. As for Dillon, you take a guy that produced a ton on poor offensive teams and has been very durable for basically his entire career outside of last season(nothing huge, but lots of nagging injuries) and put him on a strong offensive team with a solid line and he will be fine. He should easily get 10 touchdowns even if he gets fewer carries than he should because of the scoring ability of the Patriots. Saying that Bellicheck won't give a running back the ball is asanine because he has not had anyone anywhere near the caliber of Dillon.

 

On to the last part. There is a big dropoff from Faulk and Holmes to Jones in terms of production when they came into that offense. Holmes rushed for 1000 yards and 7 TD's with on fewer than 15 carries a game, and when Baltimore drastically cut his carries in 99 and 00(89 and 137 respectively), he still got over 500 each year, even averaging 5.7 YPC in 99. Faulk had at least 1000 yards and 6 TD's in 4 of his 5 years in Indy(doing much better than that in 2 of them) while adding an average of about 450 receiving yards in his first 4 years there and 900 yards in his last year before the trade. Jones hasn't even been able to secure a full time job yet(even on Arizona) and had an abysmal running average before he started showing signs of life on Tampa last year. Who knows if Thomas will steal carries or not. He has not really been on the field yet, but he has succeeded in the past, and if Jones has a couple of bad games they have a more capable second option than a lot of teams. Jones hasn't exactly run away with the starting job when he had chances before. The preseason numbers mean nothing to me, he played against 4 subpar defenses with several starter not playing, and didn't exactly put up a ton of points on the scoreboard. Brown looks like he has talent but is still unproven. He could be solid, but there's a chance he might not be able to handle the load. He's been decent but not stellar in his performances thus far. As for Suggs, just about anything you read says while he currently seems to have the starting job, there is no guarantee that he will be the feature back. Green has performed fairly well in the preseason(I don't put much stock in it, but you apparently do), and some articles I have read have gone as far as saying it will be a two back system. Either way, I'm not so sure they will produce in what should be a poor Browns O, since neither of these guys are of Pro Bowl caliber. As for the other guys, they may have talent but you are still depending on them to steal carries from highly regarded veterans. Faulk might be an injury risk but Jackson isn't going to be a full time starter for the whole year, so you got basically a worthless player until Faulk gets hurt and after he gets back. Plus you are depending on George to break down, which he just doesn't do. He is always going to be the type of guy that will get tough yards and stay on the field, plus he is the kind of pounder that Parcells likes. Jones will get carries but likely won't be getting 25 touches at any time. Clearly they don't have a ton of faith in Jones if they went out and got George. I highly doubt you are going to find 3 1000 yard rushers in this group, and even if they hit that doesn't mean they will produce like an Edgerrin James, Fred Taylor, or Duece McAllister.

 

I'd have drafted much differently than you did, so the situation wouldn't be Moss, Dillon, and Brooks instead of Moss, Culpepper, and Jones(I wouldn't worry about that situation much anyways). First off I'd be able to get better alternate receivers because I wouldn't have to take Brooks, McNair, or Brady until probably the 5th, meaning I might be able to add someone like Andre Johnson or Isaac Bruce(or someone along those lines) in the 4th(or taking Brown/Jones/whatever other sleeper). Second I've done about about 8 drafts this year(most of them ten team, 2 twelve) and the earliest I have ever seen Jones or Brown go was the 4th, so I actually probably would have grabbed a receiver in the 3rd(not a fan of Horn, but some guys around him are solid) and then waited to get some of those RB's. In the end I probably would have grabbed Duece at 6, Barlow or Dillon in the second, and then drafted my receivers in rounds 3 and 4, grabbing one of the other QB's in the 5th(or 4th if I had to), then I could still grab some sleepers at RB. I'd be doing just fine with that route, and I have in the past. I'd be just fine with Duece as my #1 back, and getting him in the first gives me a lot more flexibility in the rest of my draft. I could just as easily go Duece and Holt or Harrison, which I would rather have than Barlow and Moss and seems to have less risk. Moss might have that monster season, but he is at least as likely to slip a little as to repeat those numbers. Last year was the first time he had more than 1450 yards, and his touchdown numbers for his career are 17, 11, 15, 10, 7, and 17. I had him two years ago and I was rather pissed off. He'd put up a bunch of 3 or 4 point weeks with an 18 pointer mixed in, and that inconsistency killed me. Running backs seem to do that less often, especially studs. You better hope he has one of those 15 or 17 TD years, because running backs in general have more total yardage(meaning more points), and a scoring year like that is the only way he can make up that difference.

 

Bye the way, have fun that week that Culpepper and Moss have a bye week. Good luck.

[southsideirish]

Okay, I lied.

 

Dude, the rules of the league don't matter that much when comparing players at the same position since everyone plays under the same standards. If rushing yards are ridiculously slanted that's one thing, but they aren't. That's actually a pretty standard scoring system, it is the same as what is in yahoo. Here are the number of points scored by Culpepper, Brooks and McNair last year under that scoring system.

 

Culpepper- 219

McNair- 207(guess he's not exactly head and shoulders above, huh?, Favre, Hassleback and Green were in this range too, at 207, 207, and 204)

Brooks- 181

 

Culpepper did miss two games, so that helps a bit, but assuming average outings both times, that would come out to around 240. Virtually every starting fantasy QB had 170. Compared to RB's, there were only 7 that got over 160 points, and only 15 that broke 100 points, when you need at least 20 starters in a league. Tomlinson put up a healthy 204, while McAllister put up 133, despite a medicore touchdown year with 8. There was a 60 point difference between Duece and the number 25 back(which by the numbers is the top 3rd back), even with a bad year. All you need is about 3 more TD's(highly possible) and he moves into that elite area. With that many touches he is bound to score more.  In order to make a fair comparison in fantasy football, you need to use the 13th rated QB, since numberwise that would be the best bench player, which is Donovan McNabb. He had a terrible year last season and still had 152. That's about a 70 point difference even counting a very good year from Culpepper and a subpar year for McNabb(he scored more points in 10 games the previous year). Also, Culpepper isn't that "consistent." He missed two games last year and 5 in 2001. His passing touchdown totals in his four years have been 33, 14, 18, and 25. His INT totals have been 16, 13, 23, and 11. His passing totals have been 3927, 2612, 3853, and 3479. Rushing is 470, 416, 609, and 422. Rushing TD's 7, 5, 10, and 4. There are some pretty big disparities in there. I would say that it is far from a lock that he will pass for 3500 and 25(even with running stats), which would be what you need to solidfy his draft spot. Manning would have made much more sense if that was your train of thought, barring injury those numbers are bare minimum for Peyton, who outscored Culpepper by 12 by the way.

 

As for the runningbacks you mentioned, just about all of them are almost a lock to get 1000 and 8. Davis might be losing some carries, but he also only played 14 games and had fewer than 10 carries in 3 others. That won't happend again. Henry might split time some, but he is still going to get 20 touches a game, and McGahee is far from a certainty to make it through the season. Even if Henry loses 200 yards and 2 touchdowns(pretty drastic since he is in all likelyhood still going to get the bulk of the carries), he would outscore most RB's. Barlow played in all 16, but had fewer than 10 carries in 6 of them. He basically is the 49'er offense this year, he is going to get a ton of carries since their passing game looks mediocre. Stephen Davis is similar to Henry. He'll still get around 20 carries and a few throws a game. Carolina is going to rely heavily on the running game, so there will be plenty of carries to go around. Plus he is much more likely to get goal line carries due to his style, and Foster has had injury and production problems for a while now. As for Dillon, you take a guy that produced a ton on poor offensive teams and has been very durable for basically his entire career outside of last season(nothing huge, but lots of nagging injuries) and put him on a strong offensive team with a solid line and he will be fine. He should easily get 10 touchdowns even if he gets fewer carries than he should because of the scoring ability of the Patriots. Saying that Bellicheck won't give a running back the ball is asanine because he has not had anyone anywhere near the caliber of Dillon.

 

On to the last part. There is a big dropoff from Faulk and Holmes to Jones in terms of production when they came into that offense. Holmes rushed for 1000 yards and 7 TD's with on fewer than 15 carries a game, and when Baltimore drastically cut his carries in 99 and 00(89 and 137 respectively), he still got over 500 each year, even averaging 5.7 YPC in 99. Faulk had at least 1000 yards and 6 TD's in 4 of his 5 years in Indy(doing much better than that in 2 of them) while adding an average of about 450 receiving yards in his first 4 years there and 900 yards in his last year before the trade. Jones hasn't even been able to secure a full time job yet(even on Arizona) and had an abysmal running average before he started showing signs of life on Tampa last year. Who knows if Thomas will steal carries or not. He has not really been on the field yet, but he has succeeded in the past, and if Jones has a couple of bad games they have a more capable second option than a lot of teams. Jones hasn't exactly run away with the starting job when he had chances before. The preseason numbers mean nothing to me, he played against 4 subpar defenses with several starter not playing, and didn't exactly put up a ton of points on the scoreboard. Brown looks like he has talent but is still unproven. He could be solid, but there's a chance he might not be able to handle the load. He's been decent but not stellar in his performances thus far. As for Suggs, just about anything you read says while he currently seems to have the starting job, there is no guarantee that he will be the feature back. Green has performed fairly well in the preseason(I don't put much stock in it, but you apparently do), and some articles I have read have gone as far as saying it will be a two back system. Either way, I'm not so sure they will produce in what should be a poor Browns O, since neither of these guys are of Pro Bowl caliber. As for the other guys, they may have talent but you are still depending on them to steal carries from highly regarded veterans. Faulk might be an injury risk but Jackson isn't going to be a full time starter for the whole year, so you got basically a worthless player until Faulk gets hurt and after he gets back. Plus you are depending on George to break down, which he just doesn't do. He is always going to be the type of guy that will get tough yards and stay on the field, plus he is the kind of pounder that Parcells likes. Jones will get carries but likely won't be getting 25 touches at any time. Clearly they don't have a ton of faith in Jones if they went out and got George. I highly doubt you are going to find 3 1000 yard rushers in this group, and even if they hit that doesn't mean they will produce like an Edgerrin James, Fred Taylor, or Duece McAllister.

 

I'd have drafted much differently than you did, so the situation wouldn't be Moss, Dillon, and Brooks instead of Moss, Culpepper, and Jones(I wouldn't worry about that situation much anyways). First off I'd be able to get better alternate receivers because I wouldn't have to take Brooks, McNair, or Brady until probably the 5th, meaning I might be able to add someone like Andre Johnson or Isaac Bruce(or someone along those lines) in the 4th(or taking Brown/Jones/whatever other sleeper). Second I've done about about 8 drafts this year(most of them ten team, 2 twelve) and the earliest I have ever seen Jones or Brown go was the 4th, so I actually probably would have grabbed a receiver in the 3rd(not a fan of Horn, but some guys around him are solid) and then waited to get some of those RB's. In the end I probably would have grabbed Duece at 6, Barlow or Dillon in the second, and then drafted my receivers in rounds 3 and 4, grabbing one of the other QB's in the 5th(or 4th if I had to), then I could still grab some sleepers at RB. I'd be doing just fine with that route, and I have in the past. I'd be just fine with Duece as my #1 back, and getting him in the first gives me a lot more flexibility in the rest of my draft. I could just as easily go Duece and Holt or Harrison, which I would rather have than Barlow and Moss and seems to have less risk. Moss might have that monster season, but he is at least as likely to slip a little as to repeat those numbers. Last year was the first time he had more than 1450 yards, and his touchdown numbers for his career are 17, 11, 15, 10, 7, and 17. I had him two years ago and I was rather pissed off. He'd put up a bunch of 3 or 4 point weeks with an 18 pointer mixed in, and that inconsistency killed me. Running backs seem to do that less often, especially studs. You better hope he has one of those 15 or 17 TD years, because running backs in general have more total yardage(meaning more points), and a scoring year like that is the only way he can make up that difference.

 

Bye the way, have fun that week that Culpepper and Moss have a bye week. Good luck.

Dude, in my league last year it was like this:

 

Culpepper (playing in only 14 games) 333 points

Manning 326

McNair 295 points

Brooks 298 AND he has a torn quad this year.

 

Both McNair and Brooks played in all 16 games. Culpepper didn't even play the whole 14 in which he started.

 

Lets average in 2 more "average" weeks for Culpepper. That would give hiim about 24 per game and 48 more for the year. That would put him at 381 points!!! 381!!!!! That beats manning by about 60 and your other two jamokes by almost 100. So much for head and shoulders above everyone else, huh? I guess scoring systems still don't mean a lot, huh?

 

If you think Manning would have made more sense then that is great for you. Unfortunately, you don't know enough about the league to even say if he was there for me to pick between the two. Manning was picked one pick before me. He was not even there for me to make that decision. After I picked Moss it went James, McAllister, Lewis, Faulk, F.Taylor, R. Johnson, Harrison, Manning, and then me with Culpepper. You ASSUME to much. Manning did not outscore Culpepper in my league. He was outscored by Culpepper playing by 7 while playing in 2 less games. Plus that was a career year for Manning and the best he has ever done with controlling his INTs.

 

You are way off base in your judgements of those RBs. I like Barlow and I wish he would have been there with my 3rd pick, however I would not take him in the 2nd round, never! None of those backs are locks for anything. Dom Davis was banged up a lot last year and has been in pre season. What makes you think he can take the punishment. The Texans did not give up a 2nd round pick on Tony Hollings for nothing. Stephen Davis is old and always done by the end of the season. Every single year he breaks down at the end. I don't want a back like that, but I hope someone like you takes him everytime. You and others like you overvalue him. Dillon? Did I not show you how drastically over valued he is in my last post? Travis Henry is solid but his situation is a bit murky and has just as many questions as T. Jones, L. Suggs, and C. Brown. He has been banged up quite a bit the last couple of years and now a 1st round pick wants to take over for him. What do you think is going to eventually happen? I doubt he will get all the TDs you speak of. Yards maybe but TDs, NO!

 

Ok, yes Priest Holmes had 1000 yards and 7 TDs in 1998. Do you even remember that year? In 2 games against Cincinatti he totalled 400 yards and 3 TDs. He also had 132 and 1 TD verse the Lions and 103 and 2 TDs verse the Indy Colts. The only other game in which he went above 70 yards was against the Oakland Raiders and that was a 27 carry 99 yard ZERO TD effort. So as you can see he was able to put up great #s behind a damn good offensive line against ONLY bad teams. He then went on to be replaces by Errictt Rhett in 1999 and by Jamal Lewis in 2000. If you don't think that is a fair comparison between he and Thomas Jones then I don't know what you are thinking. Holmes ws a undrafted FA. Jones was a very high first round pick. He has been able to keep a starting job because of freak injuries. It seems like you read a lot of articles so how you could not know this is beyond me. Last year he played behind a decent buy not great Oline and looked VERY good when given the chance.

 

Chris Brown has been very stellar in his performances so far this pre season. Don't just look at the numbers, try to actually watch a game here or there. He has been a great pass blocker and has shown speed and strength. The O-Coordinator has said they are going to give him the ball a ton this year. I am not concerned about either Brown or Jones, they look phenomenal.

 

I think you are reading out dated material, which is fine by me if your playing in my league. I hope everyone reads the outdated articles and I can get steals like I did. Try checking out some sites such as KFFL or Fanball and see what they say about Suggs. Suggs has been given the starting job. Yes Green may see some carries, but damn this is my 3rd RB here. How many teams have Moss Culpepper and 3 solid RBs? Not many if any at all. We will see how pro bowl caliber Suggs is. Before he blew out his knee he was the #1 RB in college. I really don't think you know what your talking about.

 

You think I don't know that jackson is not going to be a full time player until Faulk gets hurt. Trust me Faulk is done. No knees. Faulk will not be a full time player either and he was taken in rounds 2-3 and sometimes round 1. I got this guy in the 10th round!!!!!! If he takes over the full time job then this is just a bonus. Come on now you are in 8 leagues and you don't know this?

 

Eddie George IS BROKEN DOWN!!! He is done. Parcells has basically said this as he is not going to be the 20-30 carry a game guy he once was. Have you watched any pre season football? The guy is done. Julius JOnes was a 2nd round pick. They passed on Stephen Jackson because they wanted Jones. Come on man, you must be kidding me here, right?!?!?! I got him in the 8th round, the same round where people are taking Rod Smith, Keyshawn Johnson, Chris Chambers, Deshaun Foster, and Charlie Garner. Eddie George was taken a round earlier and he is DONE! Do you really watch football? Do you really listen to stuff that is going on or do you just read outdated articles?

 

Are you comparing Moss to other RBs or are you comparing Moss to other WRs? Jeeze! I know he is so great that you would like to compare him to the ELITE RBs but WRs just dont get as many rushing yards as RBs get receiving yards. As far as TDs go he outscored every RB except for 2, Preist Holmes and Ahman Green, last year. He has only had one single digit TD year. That is more than I can say for most RBs. You better hope Deuce has another good 13 TD year, becase he has only been around 2 years and that is his career best. You seem to like him a lot and I hope he works oiut for you, but he has not looked the same without his fullback and Clevelands running game has looked very good with the addition of Terrell Smith. Sorry, but that is true. Deuce seems to have one of the easiest schedules for a RB this year, but I just don't have the faith in him that you have. To each their own. Another guy in our league tried to go your route with McAllister and Harrison and then try to get a sleeper RB or that further down but was unable to do so. He ended up with Duce Staley as his 2nd RB and taking Hines Ward in the third because the RB he had hoped to be there was not there. Go any way you want, but after those top 5 RBs are gone I will take Moss every single time as NO ONE compares to that freak at WR.

 

Ha ha, you continue on thinking that you can get a comparable receiver to Moss. There just isn't one. As far as the bye week goes, I could care less about ONE week. David Carr should do just fine as my backup as he is playing Oakland that week and Tyrone Calico will be back by then and is playing San Diego that week. Not like my WR matters because I can plug in any shmoe at WR to match up against the likes of Joe Horn, Isaac Bruce (who is done) or an Andre Johnson. If you are really concerened about studs being off on a bye week then why draft anyone at all? They all have bye weeks.

 

Seattle Detroit and Dallas will also be off that same week so I wont have to worry about hasselbeck, r.williams, c. rogers, d. jackson, or k. robinson.

[ZoomSlowik]

I don't have anything against Jones, Brown, and Suggs persay, I just think there are much better options, and I wouldn't feel too good if any two of those 3 were my starting RB's. Look at the post in the other thread comparing the last 3 years of Moss, Harrison, and Holt, it is actually pretty close. Moss had a career year last year, if you think he is going to get 1600 yards and outscore a lot of runningbacks, you got another thing coming.

 

I'd rather take my team of something like Duece, Barlow or Holt, Bruce, Johnson, or someone like Bennett or Westbrook(not sure if they were there in the third for you, if they weren't something is wrong with that league), and Brooks late. That gives me a lot of scoring options, which is good so bye weeks or bad games don't hurt you. I said the scoring system won't matter that much because no matter what it is every quarterback will deal with the same thing. If it is weighted toward passing TD's, which that is, then Manning is a better pick. If it is running heavy, guy like McNair, McNabb, and Vick are going to be up there with Dante. Unless your league gives you 5 points a week for having a Viking, he's not going to grossly outscore every other QB. He'll score more than a lot of guys, but the points you gain there can easily be made up with the RB gap. There are going to be guys close to him scoringwise, I like how you ignored that Favre, Hassleback, and Green were right around McNair and can be had later than the 2nd round. Despite a poor year by McNabb and injuries to starting QB options like Pennington and Vick, he didn't create as big a gap as there is in runningbacks. You can say Culpepper would have outscored everyone last year if he played those two games, but the point is he didn't and there's no telling if he will score at that rate again, and if you really think Manning isn't going to be as solid as he was last year I really need to stop this argument. Everyone felt the same way about McNabb and his ten game masterpiece of a season two years ago. I'm glad you feel good about that team, but I wouldn't if I were you.

[southsideirish]

I don't have anything against Jones, Brown, and Suggs persay, I just think there are much better options, and I wouldn't feel too good if any two of those 3 were my starting RB's. Look at the post in the other thread comparing the last 3 years of Moss, Harrison, and Holt, it is actually pretty close. Moss had a career year last year, if you think he is going to get 1600 yards and outscore a lot of runningbacks, you got another thing coming.

 

I'd rather take my team of something like Duece, Barlow or Holt, Bruce, Johnson, or someone like Bennett or Westbrook(not sure if they were there in the third for you, if they weren't something is wrong with that league), and Brooks late. That gives me a lot of scoring options, which is good so bye weeks or bad games don't hurt you. I said the scoring system won't matter that much because no matter what it is every quarterback will deal with the same thing. If it is weighted toward passing TD's, which that is, then Manning is a better pick. If it is running heavy, guy like McNair, McNabb, and Vick are going to be up there with Dante. Unless your league gives you 5 points a week for having a Viking, he's not going to grossly outscore every other QB. He'll score more than a lot of guys, but the points you gain there can easily be made up with the RB gap. There are going to be guys close to him scoringwise, I like how you ignored that Favre, Hassleback, and Green were right around McNair and can be had later than the 2nd round. Despite a poor year by McNabb and injuries to starting QB options like Pennington and Vick, he didn't create as big a gap as there is in runningbacks. You can say Culpepper would have outscored everyone last year if he played those two games, but the point is he didn't and there's no telling if he will score at that rate again, and if you really think Manning isn't going to be as solid as he was last year I really need to stop this argument. Everyone felt the same way about McNabb and his ten game masterpiece of a season two years ago. I'm glad you feel good about that team, but I wouldn't if I were you.

Culpepper DID outscore everyone even without playing in those two games and he IS much better than McNair, McNabb, Vick, and every other running QB out there. MUCH BETTER!

 

I expect Moss to have a better year than last simply because of the new emphasis on the 5 yard chuck rule. Hot is a nice player but he simply can not compare to Moss and neither can Harrison. They will get theirs but not like Moss. Holt has Bulger throwing to him whcih will automatically downgrade him.

 

Bruce? Isaac Bruce? He is a stiff and a shell of his former self. Andre Johnson is good but he is only in his 2nd year. You sure you want him as your #1 receiver? WOW!

 

Bennet gets zero TDs and is VERY injury prone as he is already injured. Onterrio Smith is the guy to look at in Minny. Westbrook is VERY injury prone and VERY small. Neither were in the third round. However I would rather take my chances with Chris Brown than either of those two.

 

Again, Brooks has a torn quad. If you are implying htat this guy is a running QB you would be wrong. He very seldom runs.

 

The scoring system does matter as Culpepper does everything, however if it is leaning towards favoring points in running then Culpepper is the best QB available hands down. If it is a TD favored league then Manning gets a slight edge.

 

Favre, Hasslebeck, and Green were all solid last year but not in Culpeppers and Mannings class. I do expect bigger and better things from Hasselbeck, but the other two will do about what they did last year or a little less.

 

I dont only feel good about this team, I feel GREAT about this team. I expect big things from T Jones and C. Brown. If that happens and Jevon Walker and Ashley Lelie breakthrough in their 3rd year as is expected then my team will dominate. No one will be able to match me. It would be much more concerend if I had Deuce as my #1 back, Bennett as my #2 and Bruce and Andre Johnson as my WRs with Brooks at QB. Now that I would be concerned about and that would make me sick to my stomach.

[ZoomSlowik]

As I said, glad you feel good about your team. Personally I'd be very worried about my runningbacks and depth at WR. Why post your team if you can't take some criticisms? I wasn't the only one that pointed these things out, I just defended it more violently. If you can't see that you broke two of the golden rules of fantasy football by not taking a RB in either of the first two rounds and by having the same bye week for your top two picks, then whatever. I'm also not a big fan of having two of my key players on the same team because if they have a bad offensive game you're in trouble for the week. Even good offensive teams struggle on occasion.

 

As for the players I mentioned, I like Bruce as a late 4th or 5th rounder because even if their QB sucks they're going to throw the ball a ton and teams will give a lot of attention to Holt. He's a solid 3 and a mediocre 2. Johnson has a ton of talent, he will be a star in the near future, although I'd take Ward over him despite a QB situation I dislike, or Mason. Obviously I'd grab TO or Chad Johnson if they slipped, I have occasionally been able to get these guys in the early 3rd. I'd personally take Andre Johnson over higher rated guys like Steve Smith and Joe Horn. I also like Charles Rodgers a round or two later. I wouldn't mind having him as my #1. There are only 6 wide receivers I have a ton of faith in(Moss, Holt, Harrison, Johnson, TO, and Ward), after that Mason and Johson are my preferred players, outside of that I tend to look for sleepers. WR's just don't win you games unless they have a career year like Moss last year or Harrison 2 years ago. I'd personally feel much better with Andre Johnson as my #1 receiver than with Thomas Jones as my #1 runningback, but obviously you don't. I have no idea why you like Walker and Lelie so much either. The Pack have way too many options for Walker to put up a ton of points, he just won't get as many throws as other similar guys. Lelie's QB is Plummer, enough said. I'd put both those guys as #3 options. Apparently you seem to be big on potential and dislike production, which I find interesting. I'd happily take Westbrook over anyone you got, he had 13 TD's last year while splitting carries and because of Buckhalter's injury he is now the feature back in what should be a solid offense. Bennett might get hurt a lot, but he is also a homerun threat in another powerhouse offense. I'd put him in the same range as guys like Jones, possibly a little higher because he has actually had a productive rushing year before, and plays in an offense that will move the ball easily. Besides, I can easily grab Smith late as insurance. I'd much rather take a guy that has produced something in the past, again, apparently you'd rather rely on potential.

 

As for QB, I never said that Brooks is a running QB at all. Actually I've been getting Brady or McNair a lot, and not Brooks so much, I just threw out a decent but not stellar QB as an example. Personally I like McNair and NcNabb better than Culpepper when you factor in where you draft them. It's not like Culpepper didn't score those points because of a coaches decision(like most of the runningbacks I mentioned) he got hurt. That kind of thing happens with a running QB, and Culpepper runs as much as anyone. Personal opinions often factor into where players are drafted, and I have a lot more faith in McNair and McNabb as pure passers, whereas Culpepper seems to either throw it to Moss or run. Because of this, I don't think he is going to be anywhere near as consistent and could lose some numbers.

 

Again, glad you like your team and good luck.

[southsideirish]

As I said, glad you feel good about your team. Personally I'd be very worried about my runningbacks and depth at WR. Why post your team if you can't take some criticisms? I wasn't the only one that pointed these things out, I just defended it more violently. If you can't see that you broke two of the golden rules of fantasy football by not taking a RB in either of the first two rounds and by having the same bye week for your top two picks, then whatever. I'm also not a big fan of having two of my key players on the same team because if they have a bad offensive game you're in trouble for the week. Even good offensive teams struggle on occasion.

 

As for the players I mentioned, I like Bruce as a late 4th or 5th rounder because even if their QB sucks they're going to throw the ball a ton and teams will give a lot of attention to Holt. He's a solid 3 and a mediocre 2. Johnson has a ton of talent, he will be a star in the near future, although I'd take Ward over him despite a QB situation I dislike, or Mason. Obviously I'd grab TO or Chad Johnson if they slipped, I have occasionally been able to get these guys in the early 3rd. I'd personally take Andre Johnson over higher rated guys like Steve Smith and Joe Horn. I also like Charles Rodgers a round or two later. I wouldn't mind having him as my #1. There are only 6 wide receivers I have a ton of faith in(Moss, Holt, Harrison, Johnson, TO, and Ward), after that Mason and Johson are my preferred players, outside of that I tend to look for sleepers. WR's just don't win you games unless they have a career year like Moss last year or Harrison 2 years ago. I'd personally feel much better with Andre Johnson as my #1 receiver than with Thomas Jones as my #1 runningback, but obviously you don't. I have no idea why you like Walker and Lelie so much either. The Pack have way too many options for Walker to put up a ton of points, he just won't get as many throws as other similar guys. Lelie's QB is Plummer, enough said. I'd put both those guys as #3 options. Apparently you seem to be big on potential and dislike production, which I find interesting. I'd happily take Westbrook over anyone you got, he had 13 TD's last year while splitting carries and because of Buckhalter's injury he is now the feature back in what should be a solid offense. Bennett might get hurt a lot, but he is also a homerun threat in another powerhouse offense. I'd put him in the same range as guys like Jones, possibly a little higher because he has actually had a productive rushing year before, and plays in an offense that will move the ball easily. Besides, I can easily grab Smith late as insurance. I'd much rather take a guy that has produced something in the past, again, apparently you'd rather rely on potential.

 

As for QB, I never said that Brooks is a running QB at all. Actually I've been getting Brady or McNair a lot, and not Brooks so much, I just threw out a decent but not stellar QB as an example. Personally I like McNair and NcNabb better than Culpepper when you factor in where you draft them. It's not like Culpepper didn't score those points because of a coaches decision(like most of the runningbacks I mentioned) he got hurt. That kind of thing happens with a running QB, and Culpepper runs as much as anyone. Personal opinions often factor into where players are drafted, and I have a lot more faith in McNair and McNabb as pure passers, whereas Culpepper seems to either throw it to Moss or run. Because of this, I don't think he is going to be anywhere near as consistent and could lose some numbers.

 

Again, glad you like your team and good luck.

I don't care if you would be worried with this team. Yes I went against the grain this year by not drafting a RB in the first two rounds, however this year is way different than others. If you can't see that then that is your problem not mine. After the top tier RBs, Holmes, Tomlinson, Green, Portis, and Alexander are gone then the rest can throw 6-20 in a hat, mix em up and pick. That is just my opinion and we will see who is right at the end of the season. I would much rather have Randy Moss and Culpepper than not and have one of the 6-20 RBs just so I can have an RB. Like I said any of those RBs would be fine #2s but to count on them as #1s without Moss and Culpepper would not be a good time to me. You have to look at every year differntly and not always go by the book.

 

i am not a big fan of having a WR/RB or a QB/RB from the same team as you are hoping for too much. However, a QB/WR from the same team is entirely different. If I had Moss and playing against a team with Culpepper then it sucks and vice versa. I see no problem with having a great QB/WR combo from the same team. I think you need to differentiate some things.

 

In 2001 Bruce had 1106 yards and only 6 TDs. Bruce barely made 1000 yards in 2002 and had only 7 TDs. In 2003 he didn't make it to 1000 yards and had only 5 TDs. He is a receiver in steady decline with an awful QB. If that is the chance you want to take then so be it. Have fun hoping he comes through for you on a weekly basis.

 

I am not the only one who seems to like Walker. Almost every insider has him ranked in the top 15. He has size and speed and near the red zone he should be the go to guy, not Bubba Franks. he was very consistent towards the end of the year last year with TDs and became Favres go to guy. Plus is going into his third year which is the break out year for WRs.

 

Lelie is also going into his third year and should be Plummers main option. Rod Smith is clearly near the end of his career. Lelie has had an awesome off season and has added a lot of muscle and kept his speed. Plummer was pretty good at the end of last year after coming back from his injury. I have no problems with him throwing the ball to Lelie. He is also ranked by many insiders aghead of Bruce and Lelie is my #3 receiver behind Moss and Walker. In the league I am in all he has to do is produce like a TE and I will be fine. He should have no problem doing that and more.

 

Andre Johnson and Charles Rogers do have a lot of talent but I would not count on him as my #1 receiver. They will only be going into their 2nd years and WRs take time to develop. I think I am way better off going with Thomas Jones and Chris Brown as my number 1 and 2 backs than counting on those guys as a #1 WR.

 

Bennett and Westbrook too big of an injury risk. At 5'8"/5'9" I don't want to count on Westbrook as my #1 RB for an entire year. Plus they throw the ball a ton in both of these offenses. Give me Thomas Jones and Chris Brown over either of these two guys. NEXT!

 

MCNABB AS A PURE PASSER? YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME??!?!?! Isn't this what is considered as his biggest weakness? He is very inaccurate. Come on now!

 

McNair also missed one game last year due to injury, week 15, and another to rest him for the playoffs in week 17. I know a lot of fantasy teams that went down because of him in the playoffs last year during week 15. He is always dinged up.

 

Culpepper has a ton of weapons. Onterrio Smith a is real good pass catching back. Kleinsasser is a very good H-back. Moss/Burelson/Robinson/Campbell is a very good group of WRs. I don't know what your on. Culpepper has put up a ton of points for a couple years now. He can be a fantasy football MVP.

 

I must hand it to you, you have your reasonings, you have an idea and plan of which way to go, but I don't see your option as being better compared to where I drafted. I actually find it making my team worse. I guess that is why I drafted the way I did. Counting on Westbrook or Bennett to make it through a full season and also get a lesser WR/WB combo seems a little bit far fetched to me, but hey whatever.

[ZoomSlowik]

Absolute last post, since it is coming down to opinions.

 

Size with runningbacks has virtually nothing to do with their durability. Two of the best and most durable runningbacks of all time are Payton and Sanders, who were 5-10 200 and 5-8 203 respectively. For more recent examples, Portis is a stud that played every game is first year and missed two last year, and is 5-11 205. For a guy that scored 13 TD's with minimal touches last year and is now the feature back, I'll happily take a flier as my #2 back, and I in fact got him as my third in a few and am thrilled about that. As for Bennett, he has only been my number 2 when I was absolutely desperate, and I made sure to get another decent option. I like having that kind of homerun threat sitting on my bench. Actually if you look at it more of the big backs, like Bettis, Taylor, James, Lewis, George and McGahee have injury issues. You have problems with injuries, but you took Jones, who you said yourself had a few fluke injuries in his past, and Suggs, who had knee surgery and a few other nagging ones in college and in his limited pro time.

 

You spend an awful lot of effort ripping a receiver that gets 100 yards and 7 TD's. Only 12 guys did that last season. That sounds pretty good for a second receiver to me. Walker is getting a lot of hype this year, but most of the publications I have seen have him barely in the top 20 much less top 15. I'd be wary of a guy that got the majority of his points on TD's, that 600 yards to 9 TD ratio is pretty high. I'd love to see a link backing your statement up. I'd also love to see the list that has Lelie above Bruce, as I have yet to see anything anywhere near that, and have had the opportunity to take Lelie several rounds later than Bruce in every draft. ESPN, one of the few rankings I trust, has Walker at #18, and Lelie at 24, with Bruce at 16. The Sporting News, another one I usually like, has Bruce at #19, Walker at 22, Lelie at 34, although these rankings are a little old(still have Boston in there, and Boldin is still pretty high). Plummer is a decidedly mediocre QB that has only thrown more TD's than picks once, and that happened to be last year, and his career high is 18 TD's. That's gonna make it hard for his receivers to kick ass. Lelie definitely has talent, but he could be a much bigger threat elsewhere and still needs to step up big time. As for the runningbacks, you can't just throw RB's 6-20 in a hat and mix them up. Do you realize there is a difference between 1200 yards and 1000? thats 20 points in most leagues without even factoring in the TD's that usually come with those numbers, and several of the backs in that bracket will do better than that. Duece will get 1300 for sure, and Taylor will beat that if he stays healthy(which he did the last two years). Plus the Edge and Barlow have a good shot to do that too, plus Dillon and possibly Rudi Johnson. There is almost no chance Jones, Brown or Suggs will hit 1200, and I would bet that. As for saying you wouldn't want to depend on Charles Rodgers or Brian Westbrook as your #1 back, I wouldn't either, which is why they are #2 or lower on every team I have them on. I never said either of them would be my number one guy, I said I'd rather have them than other players. Since these guys both go in the 3rd(actually later in several), I can still get a stud QB or WR in the second or third(whichever I don't take my second RB in), or if I get screwed on my draft postion take Moss in the 1st and take RB's in the next two. It's not like my receivers are scrubs when I get these guys, I still end up with at least one of my top 7(the 6 I said I had faith in and Coles, who I forgot about), end up with someone like Johnson, Bruce, or Rogers as my two, and then whoever I can get at 3. That has worked out just fine for some time now. As I said before, you seem to be drafting heavily on potential, and to have a really solid team you need some guys to step up big time, which is pretty risky.

 

As for QB's, since when is 57 or 58 percent inaccurate? That's not that awful, a lot of guys do worse. And if he and any receivers worth a damn at any point in his career he'd have done better. Now he has Owens, which is a huge upgrade. I'll admit, after looking at it, Culpepper's completion numbers are much higher than I would have thought, but I still don't buy it. Come on now, just about every guy you mentioned on that list except Moss is pretty mediocre. Robinson had one great year many years ago when Cade McNown did nothing but throw him jump balls, and the only other guy with more than 450 yards or 4 TD's was Moe Williams, who isn't going to get as many chances. Having a bunch of mediocre options does not count as having a lot of weapons. Keep thinking that he's going to be fantasy football MVP, he will not outscore the top RB in most leagues, possibly in yours because of the 6 point TD's, but then he'll have to compete with Manning. There's a reason that not a single ranking system I have seen has Culpepper in the top 5, and most just barely have him in the top 10. You're right about that "couple of years", out of his 4 years of starting he has had two great ones, but in 2001 he got hurt and had 14 passing and 5 running TD's with 13 INT's, and in 2002 he may have scored 28 TD's, but those 23 picks hurt his value quite a bit. Good luck with that. I'm glad you have fun drafting that way and I wish you luck, I still think you messed up. Too bad some light criticism morphed into this.

[southsideirish]

Absolute last post, since it is coming down to opinions.

 

Size with runningbacks has virtually nothing to do with their durability. Two of the best and most durable runningbacks of all time are Payton and Sanders, who were 5-10 200 and 5-8 203 respectively. For more recent examples, Portis is a stud that played every game is first year and missed two last year, and is 5-11 205. For a guy that scored 13 TD's with minimal touches last year and is now the feature back, I'll happily take a flier as my #2 back, and I in fact got him as my third in a few and am thrilled about that. As for Bennett, he has only been my number 2 when I was absolutely desperate, and I made sure to get another decent option. I like having that kind of homerun threat sitting on my bench. Actually if you look at it more of the big backs, like Bettis, Taylor, James, Lewis, George and McGahee have injury issues. You have problems with injuries, but you took Jones, who you said yourself had a few fluke injuries in his past, and Suggs, who had knee surgery and a few other nagging ones in college and in his limited pro time.

 

You spend an awful lot of effort ripping a receiver that gets 100 yards and 7 TD's. Only 12 guys did that last season. That sounds pretty good for a second receiver to me. Walker is getting a lot of hype this year, but most of the publications I have seen have him barely in the top 20 much less top 15. I'd be wary of a guy that got the majority of his points on TD's, that 600 yards to 9 TD ratio is pretty high. I'd love to see a link backing your statement up. I'd also love to see the list that has Lelie above Bruce, as I have yet to see anything anywhere near that, and have had the opportunity to take Lelie several rounds later than Bruce in every draft. ESPN, one of the few rankings I trust, has Walker at #18, and Lelie at 24, with Bruce at 16. The Sporting News, another one I usually like, has Bruce at #19, Walker at 22, Lelie at 34, although these rankings are a little old(still have Boston in there, and Boldin is still pretty high). Plummer is a decidedly mediocre QB that has only thrown more TD's than picks once, and that happened to be last year, and his career high is 18 TD's. That's gonna make it hard for his receivers to kick ass. Lelie definitely has talent, but he could be a much bigger threat elsewhere and still needs to step up big time. As for the runningbacks, you can't just throw RB's 6-20 in a hat and mix them up. Do you realize there is a difference between 1200 yards and 1000? thats 20 points in most leagues without even factoring in the TD's that usually come with those numbers, and several of the backs in that bracket will do better than that. Duece will get 1300 for sure, and Taylor will beat that if he stays healthy(which he did the last two years). Plus the Edge and Barlow have a good shot to do that too, plus Dillon and possibly Rudi Johnson. There is almost no chance Jones, Brown or Suggs will hit 1200, and I would bet that. As for saying you wouldn't want to depend on Charles Rodgers or Brian Westbrook as your #1 back, I wouldn't either, which is why they are #2 or lower on every team I have them on. I never said either of them would be my number one guy, I said I'd rather have them than other players. Since these guys both go in the 3rd(actually later in several), I can still get a stud QB or WR in the second or third(whichever I don't take my second RB in), or if I get screwed on my draft postion take Moss in the 1st and take RB's in the next two. It's not like my receivers are scrubs when I get these guys, I still end up with at least one of my top 7(the 6 I said I had faith in and Coles, who I forgot about), end up with someone like Johnson, Bruce, or Rogers as my two, and then whoever I can get at 3. That has worked out just fine for some time now. As I said before, you seem to be drafting heavily on potential, and to have a really solid team you need some guys to step up big time, which is pretty risky.

 

As for QB's, since when is 57 or 58 percent inaccurate? That's not that awful, a lot of guys do worse. And if he and any receivers worth a damn at any point in his career he'd have done better. Now he has Owens, which is a huge upgrade. I'll admit, after looking at it, Culpepper's completion numbers are much higher than I would have thought, but I still don't buy it. Come on now, just about every guy you mentioned on that list except Moss is pretty mediocre. Robinson had one great year many years ago when Cade McNown did nothing but throw him jump balls, and the only other guy with more than 450 yards or 4 TD's was Moe Williams, who isn't going to get as many chances. Having a bunch of mediocre options does not count as having a lot of weapons. Keep thinking that he's going to be fantasy football MVP, he will not outscore the top RB in most leagues, possibly in yours because of the 6 point TD's, but then he'll have to compete with Manning. There's a reason that not a single ranking system I have seen has Culpepper in the top 5, and most just barely have him in the top 10. You're right about that "couple of years", out of his 4 years of starting he has had two great ones, but in 2001 he got hurt and had 14 passing and 5 running TD's with 13 INT's, and in 2002 he may have scored 28 TD's, but those 23 picks hurt his value quite a bit. Good luck with that. I'm glad you have fun drafting that way and I wish you luck, I still think you messed up. Too bad some light criticism morphed into this.

So now your comparing Westbrook and Bennett to Payton and Sanders? How ridicuous is that. There are exceptions to every rule and you just compared 2 could bes and injury prone backs to 2 of the top 3 RBs of all time. Come on now. By the way Westbrook is listed at 5' 10" and in some cases 5'9".

 

Suggs has had one big knee injury problem and hasn't had another before or since. Thomas Jones? These are not even football fluke injuries your talking about. One was when he was having an argument and slammed the phone done and fractured his hand. How fluke is that? Has this guy ever been injured on the football field?

 

Bruce did not have 1000 yards last year and he only managed 5 TDs. Go to fanball.com and join the Owners Edge which I believe is like 19 bucks. In there they have elite cheatsheats that are updated daily. They have had Lelie ranked ahead of Bruce during the whole offseason. If you want I will email a copy over to you so you can save your dollars. However, you might think I made some type of adjustments to it if I did that so it might be best if you saw it for yourself. They also have Walker listed at 11. Like I said you are reading outdated materials. Keep up to date. Lelie is my #3 receiver and you are ripping him like I want him to perform like a #1. Sorry, I have Moss to do that job for me.

 

I think Jones will also have 1300 yards and probably 1600 combined yards and throw in about 10 TDs. That is my prediction for Jones. Sean Salisbury predicted him to have 1400 yards and 10 TDs so we are not that far apart. If he produces like that and I was able to grab him in the third round while also having Randy Moss, Daunte Culepper, and Chris Brown then you are going to be s***ting your pants and I will be running away with the league title. Taylor staying healthy is a big if. Taylor getting the ball in short yardage situations is not likely. If Barlow would have fell to me in the 3rd I would have grabbed him. I did not want to take the chance on him in the 2nd round over Culpepper. That doesn't make sense. Not for all the ifs surrounding him. Edge could be good but I am taking Moss over him everytime. He went in the first round there was no chance to get him in the 2nd or 3rd. Dillon? please I think we talked enough about him and Rudi Johnson has a lot to prove to take in the beginning of the 2nd round, which is where he was taken.

 

You want to bet me that Jones reaches 1200 yards then I will take that bet. PM me and we will switch email addresses. I will definately take that bet.

 

You were saying that you would have taken Westbrook over Culpepper. That would have made him my #1 back. If you are saying that you would have taken him over Jones then so be it, but Westbrook is not going to make it through a full season. He is an injury prone back and someone I do not want as my #1 instead of Thomas Jones. Charles Rogers? He was drafted in the 5th, where I got Lee Suggs. I got Walker a round later. Walker and Rogers should have comparable seasons. When did you want me to take Rogers? In the 5th? I wouldn't have gotten Suggs. That is just a ridiculous mention.

 

Taking RBs in the next 2 makes sense to you and that is fine. I went a different direction and I think it is very solid. I got the best QB overall and the best WR overal. I then went to get an RB who, in my opinion, will total between 1400-1600 combines yards and 10 TDs. That would be 1st round RB in your opinion and I got him in the 3rd while also getting Moss and Culpepper.

 

Coles? In case you didn't know he is still playing with a bad toe. Good luck with him. Plus that is now a running team. Portis, Portis, and more Portis. If you have that set of WRs I feel sorry for you as you will get killed.

 

Isn't fantasy football itself risky? Whenever you draft you draft on potential. The guy that wins the league does not usually win it with his 1st round pick. It is usually the players that go above and beyond their potential in the later rounds and the wavier pickups they make. However, I think you knwo this already.

 

Alright now yuo really have to be kidding me. Watch the games. Everyone knows that this guy throws a very inaccurate ball. He does not put it in his receivers hands. It was most noticable in the playoffs last year. You really can't be serious in thinking that this guy is an accurate passer. I don't know what publications you have been reading or what TV shows/Radios shows you have been watching/listening to but you really have to wake up. That has been his biggest flaw that everyone points out when they talk about him. Jeze, Boomer Esiason couldn't stop talking about it last year.

 

Culepper has had 3 damn good seasons out of the 4 he has played in. The only mediocre season he has had is his injury season in 2001 when he only played in 11 games.

 

2000 - 16 games, 3937 passing, 33TDs, 16 INTs, 470 rushing, 7 TDs

2001 - 11 games, 2612 passing, 14TDs, 13 INTs, 416 rushing, 5 TDs

2002 - 16 games, 3853 passing, 18 TDs, 23 INTs, 609 rushing, 10 TDs

2003 - 14 games, 3479 passing, 25 TDs, 11 INTs, 422 rushing, 4 TDs

 

Yes he threw for more INTs than TDs in 2002 but he also had 609 yards rushing, 3853 yards passing, and 28 total TDs. The only average year he has had was in 2001 and a lot of QBs would kill to have that year.

 

We will see who wins at the end of the season. As I said if you are going into the season with Lav Coles, Charles Rogers, and whatever other lame bastard you can think of to go along with Deuce McAllister, Steve McNair and Dom Davis/Steven Davis then I think you will get killed by Randy Moss, Jevon Walker, Ashley Lelie, Daunte Culpepper, Thomas Jones, and Chris Brown.

 

 

Just my opinion and good luck with your fantasy football season. Don't forget to PM me to take me up on that bet.

[ZoomSlowik]

Suggs has had one big knee injury problem and hasn't had another before or since. 

 

I think Jones will also have 1300 yards and probably 1600 combined yards and throw in about 10 TDs. You want to bet me that Jones reaches 1200 yards then I will take that bet. PM me and we will switch email addresses. I will definately take that bet.

 

You were saying that you would have taken Westbrook over Culpepper. That would have made him my #1 back. Westbrook is not going to make it through a full season. He is an injury prone back and someone I do not want as my #1 instead of Thomas Jones. Charles Rogers? He was drafted in the 5th, where I got Lee Suggs. I got Walker a round later. Walker and Rogers should have comparable seasons. When did you want me to take Rogers? In the 5th? I wouldn't have gotten Suggs. That is just a ridiculous mention.

 

As I said if you are going into the season wiht Lav Coles, Charles Rogers, and whatever other lame bastard you can think of to go along with Deuce McAllister, Steve McNair and Dom Davis/Steven Davis then I think you will get killed by Randy Moss, Jevon Walker, Ashley Lelie, Daunte Culpepper, Thomas Jones, and Chris Brown.

 

 

Just my opinion and good luck with your fantasy football season. Don't forget to PM me to take me up on that bet.

I'm not arguing players anymore, I am just clearing up some things you apparently misread. Suggs did have some nagging injury problems his senior year that seriously hurt his stock, that's why he was available in the 4th round.

 

There's a big difference between combined yards and rushing yards, I was referring to rushing yards only. Most top level backs will get an absolute minimum of 1700 total yards(McAllister had 2100 last year), Jones will fall well short of that. I expect him to get 1000-1100 rushing yards, with 3 or 4 hundred more receiving, which would put him quite a bit lower than guys like the Taylor and Duece. You're nuts if you think he will get 10 TD's, he's not an efficient goal line back and he is playing in what should be a poor scoring offense, I'd expect 8 tops.

 

I never said take Westbrook over Culpepper, I said get him in the 3rd, which is when he is normally available. What leads you to say that he is injury prone? He has not had any major injuries and has stayed on the field. I'll admit that I didn't follow him at Villanova, but he has not fallen victim to the nagging injuries as of yet in the pros. It might be something to watch as his carries increase, but that's why I have backups. You could say the same thing about any of the runningbacks you took, none of them have ever been a full time feature back. I'm not saying anyone will get hurt, I'm just saying that to say Westbrook will get hurt while non of your guys will is a poorly formed logical argument. Yes, I would have taken Rogers in the 5th instead of Suggs, but it appears your league jumped on RB's early and I can't really fault it.

 

I have Dommanick Davis on 1 team as my 3rd back and Stephen Davis on one as my number 2. I don't take those guys unless the draft isn't going my way and I still need a back. On my teams where I picked late in the 1st I have Taylor, James, and Barlow in two as my second backs. When I draft early in the 1st I end up with Harrison, Holt, Johnson or Owens when it comes back around(guys I like at RB are usually gone) and take Westbrook or Rudi in the 3rd(hasn't happened to often, I got lucky on some picks when I was in the top 5). Only time I end up with Coles as #1 is when I take him as a late 4th when I already have have two stud RB's and take a QB in the 3rd, which hasn't happened yet(I actually haven't gotten Coles yet).

 

Culpepper wasn't a bad pick in and of itself, that's a decent mid second round pick, but since you took Moss in the 1st you really should have grabbed one of the RB's that were there. You won't convince me that this is wrong, and I'm obviously not going to convince you that it is right, so I'm done unless you want to start putting words in my mouth again.

[southsideirish]

I'm not arguing players anymore, I am just clearing up some things you apparently misread. Suggs did have some nagging injury problems his senior year that seriously hurt his stock, that's why he was available in the 4th round.

 

There's a big difference between combined yards and rushing yards, I was referring to rushing yards only. Most top level backs will get an absolute minimum of 1700 total yards(McAllister had 2100 last year), Jones will fall well short of that. I expect him to get 1000-1100 rushing yards, with 3 or 4 hundred more receiving, which would put him quite a bit lower than guys like the Taylor and Duece. You're nuts if you think he will get 10 TD's, he's not an efficient goal line back and he is playing in what should be a poor scoring offense, I'd expect 8 tops.

 

I never said take Westbrook over Culpepper, I said get him in the 3rd, which is when he is normally available. What leads you to say that he is injury prone? He has not had any major injuries and has stayed on the field. I'll admit that I didn't follow him at Villanova, but he has not fallen victim to the nagging injuries as of yet in the pros. It might be something to watch as his carries increase, but that's why I have backups. You could say the same thing about any of the runningbacks you took, none of them have ever been a full time feature back. I'm not saying anyone will get hurt, I'm just saying that to say Westbrook will get hurt while non of your guys will is a poorly formed logical argument. Yes, I would have taken Rogers in the 5th instead of Suggs, but it appears your league jumped on RB's early and I can't really fault it.

 

I have Dommanick Davis on 1 team as my 3rd back and Stephen Davis on one as my number 2. I don't take those guys unless the draft isn't going my way and I still need a back. On my teams where I picked late in the 1st I have Taylor, James, and Barlow in two as my second backs. When I draft early in the 1st I end up with Harrison, Holt, Johnson or Owens when it comes back around(guys I like at RB are usually gone) and take Westbrook or Rudi in the 3rd(hasn't happened to often, I got lucky on some picks when I was in the top 5). Only time I end up with Coles as #1 is when I take him as a late 4th when I already have have two stud RB's and take a QB in the 3rd, which hasn't happened yet(I actually haven't gotten Coles yet).

 

Culpepper wasn't a bad pick in and of itself, that's a decent mid second round pick, but since you took Moss in the 1st you really should have grabbed one of the RB's that were there. You won't convince me that this is wrong, and I'm obviously not going to convince you that it is right, so I'm done unless you want to start putting words in my mouth again.

So your saying I should have taken an RB in the second round just because I didn't take one int he first? Not that it mattered if there was a good one there or not or that it mattered if I could get the same type of back in the third round and still get Culpepper in the 2nd. It is just the rules that should be followed because that is the way things are? Well I don't go by that theory. If there is not a good back in the 2nd round or if they are comparable to what I will get in the third then I will wait and take one in the third. That only makes sense.

 

I am not saying that TJ is going to put up numbers with Deuce. What I did say is that Moss and TJ will put up similar or better numbers to Deuce and Charles Rogers, or Deuce and Laverneous Coles, or Deuce and whatever other 2nd rate WR there is. Liek I said Deuce is a great talent, but he seems to miss his blocking back Terrell Smith. He has a rookie blocking for him this year and we will see how well that goes. last year is last year, this year is this year. Fred Taylor is an injury waiting to happen and USUALLY does not get the call at the goal line. I don't ever like taking that guy. I am still expecting 1400-1600 total yards and 10 TDs from TJ. Those are my expectations and we wil lsee what he can do this year. I don't think you nor anyone else knows how effecient he can be around the goal line. Has he ever been given enough chances?

 

Let us do a little comparison between Preist Holmes and TJ.

 

Priest Holmes

 

1999 26 years old, 3 years experience, 9 games, 506 yards rushing and 1 TD

2000 27 years old, 4 years experience, 2 games startred, 588 yards rushing and 2 TDs

 

I bet you were saying that it was foolish to draft Priest Holmes in the third round in 2001, werent you?

 

2001 28 years old, 5 years experience,16 games started, 1551 Yards rushing, 614 yards receiving, 10 total TDs

 

Thomas Jones

 

2002 24 years old, 3 years experience, 9 games, 511 yards rushing, and 2 TDs

2003 25 years old, 4 years experience, 3 games started, 627 yards rushing, and 3 TDs

2004 26 years old, 5 years experience, Hmmm, I can't wait to find out! Are you worried?

 

Can you imagine if I have Moss, Culpepper, and then TJ do something close to that? I will run away with the league. It won't even be close.

 

Westbrook has had nagging injuries every year in his 2 year career so far. His carries are limited for a reason. He is very talented no doubt but he has shown he can't take the punishment. He only had 117 carries last year and 154 touches overall and they were scared about over using him. Hey I may be wrong and you may be right, but he is not someone who is going to get the ball a hell of a lot or make it through the entire season. Plus the Eagles are not a running team, they are built around the pass.