DBAHO Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 From the Southtown, Meanwhile, what Guillen and general manager Ken Williams have started to ask themselves is what might work next season, when the team aims to strike a better balance between offense and defense. With free agent-to-be Jose Valentin not expected to return at shortstop next season, the front office could turn its sights to Cleveland veteran Omar Vizquel, who is eligible to become a free agent after the season. Not only is Vizquel a nine-time Gold Glover, but his ability to handle the bat is something the Sox lack. Because of tampering rules, neither Guillen nor Williams would discuss which free agents on other teams they might be interested in. But another front office member said the 37-year-old Vizquel would merit consideration, especially if Guillen lobbies on his behalf. "Vizquel can play a lot longer if he wants to," Guillen said. "If you look at the way he moves now, he can play four or five more years if he stays healthy. He's a pretty good hitter, too." The Indians have two prospects ready to replace Vizquel and are not expected to make him a contract offer. Rather than re-sign outfielder Magglio Ordonez, the Sox front office is expected to parlay his $14 million salary into a front-line pitcher and another player or players. Under that scenario, there would figure to be enough money to sign Vizquel to the two-year deal he is likely to seek. The chance to stay in the Central Division with a Hispanic-laden team might appeal to Vizquel, who like Guillen is a Venezuela native. The addition of Vizquel would allow Juan Uribe to play on a daily basis — splitting time between second base, shortstop and third base — an all-purpose role Guillen believes could be more important to the team. "Uribe can be an everyday shortstop at some point," Guillen said. "I didn't think he could play second base this way. He's a good second baseman, but I think he can play shortstop better. "Before we think about whether he will play shortstop, we got to wait to see what we will do with this team." Already one of the best all-around players on the team, Uribe has turned out to be one of most pleasant surprises of the summer. "The way the kid has played, we've been blessed," Guillen said. "When we got him, we never thought Uribe would be this kind of player." Not only does Uribe have a chance to join a select group of middle infielders in team history to total at least 20 home runs and 80 RBI in one season, but his defense has been solid from the start. Uribe lifted his batting average to .269 with a pair of doubles Saturday night. "People who thought he would hit .300 or .350, that won't happen yet," Guillen said. "He has the chance to do it. He has to get more consistent and more patient, and that will come with experience." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 This is good. That's exactly the role Uribe should play in '05, rotating between the three positions and getting into 140-145 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Looks like KW's listening to us, huh!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 what i like is the cle may not offer him a contract. no comp picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxman352000 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Omar would look good in a Sox Uni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetsy Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Sign me up for the Omar bangwagon. Keep me off of it, and I'll see if I can shoot out the tires or put sugar in the gas tank. Vizquel is having a great year for a shortstop with his .310/.365/.413 line...no question. But these are his prior 4 years to 2004: 2000- .287/.377/.375 (solid) 2001- .255/.323/.334 (bad) 2002- .275/.341/.418 (solid) 2003- .244/.321/.336 (bad - and injured) Vizquel will be 38 next year- and you shouldn't rely on him being as good as this year. In fact, he's likely to hit more like 2001/2003 than he will hit like 2002/2004. I think he'll likely to be a hole in the lineup. His current contract is $6.5 million/year. He may want something like $3-$4 million per year for 2 years. He's not worth it. The Sox would be better off either spending $8-$10 million on a star shortstop in his prime, or just going with Uribe or keeping Valentin at $2-$3 million per year. More important is finding a shortstop in the Sox system - and I don't know if there is one in the system now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Am I the only one who wants to see someone who can hit the hell out of lefties in here? Our record vs. lefties is garbage this year. I've never seen a team that has so many righties in it just fizzle out against lefties... I haven't looked at a free agent list, but it would be nice if we can find a hitter who can platoon with another player that is able to kill lefties... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Keep me off of it, and I'll see if I can shoot out the tires or put sugar in the gas tank. Vizquel is having a great year for a shortstop with his .310/.365/.413 line...no question. But these are his prior 4 years to 2004: 2000- .287/.377/.375 (solid) 2001- .255/.323/.334 (bad) 2002- .275/.341/.418 (solid) 2003- .244/.321/.336 (bad - and injured) Vizquel will be 38 next year- and you shouldn't rely on him being as good as this year. In fact, he's likely to hit more like 2001/2003 than he will hit like 2002/2004. I think he'll likely to be a hole in the lineup. His current contract is $6.5 million/year. He may want something like $3-$4 million per year for 2 years. He's not worth it. The Sox would be better off either spending $8-$10 million on a star shortstop in his prime, or just going with Uribe or keeping Valentin at $2-$3 million per year. More important is finding a shortstop in the Sox system - and I don't know if there is one in the system now. Keeping the same Jose Valentin, team leader, who has hit about .160 since the Sox have been without Frank and Magglio. Who has committed key errors in various losses, the biggest being a loss to the Twins, when he dropped a pop up, which eventually led to a basehit which scored the winning run. The team leader, who all he can do anymore, since he has decided to get picked off all the time on the basepaths, is hit homeruns, yet hasn't since August 9th. If this bum is willing to play for the minimum, and understands he is a part -time utility player, then maybe the Sox should bring him back. His backers love his power, yet he hasn't hit a homer in about a month, during which he has hit like a pitcher. He fielding has been erratic at best. He has been unsuccessful getting his last 10 or so bunts down. He used to be a great baserunner, but has been caught sleeping at least 3 times the last month and a half. Vizquel may not hit .300 next year. He may not hit .250. Valentin hasn't hit .250 in a long while, and probably won't hit .200 next year. Good riddance Jose. Congratulations on stealing $5 million this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 I say we get rid of Crede. I haven't seen one sign of talent from him. Two years is enough waiting time. Put Uribe at 3rd. F#$% Crede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Am I the only one who wants to see someone who can hit the hell out of lefties in here? Our record vs. lefties is garbage this year. I've never seen a team that has so many righties in it just fizzle out against lefties... I haven't looked at a free agent list, but it would be nice if we can find a hitter who can platoon with another player that is able to kill lefties... You lose Maggs and Frank(especially Frank) who normally kill lefties, and you are filled with a lineup that is less then mediocre against LHP, especially with Valentin playing everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Keeping the same Jose Valentin, team leader, who has hit about .160 since the Sox have been without Frank and Magglio. Who has committed key errors in various losses, the biggest being a loss to the Twins, when he dropped a pop up, which eventually led to a basehit which scored the winning run. The team leader, who all he can do anymore, since he has decided to get picked off all the time on the basepaths, is hit homeruns, yet hasn't since August 9th. If this bum is willing to play for the minimum, and understands he is a part -time utility player, then maybe the Sox should bring him back. His backers love his power, yet he hasn't hit a homer in about a month, during which he has hit like a pitcher. He fielding has been erratic at best. He has been unsuccessful getting his last 10 or so bunts down. He used to be a great baserunner, but has been caught sleeping at least 3 times the last month and a half. Vizquel may not hit .300 next year. He may not hit .250. Valentin hasn't hit .250 in a long while, and probably won't hit .200 next year. Good riddance Jose. Congratulations on stealing $5 million this year. He's tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Keep me off of it, and I'll see if I can shoot out the tires or put sugar in the gas tank. Vizquel is having a great year for a shortstop with his .310/.365/.413 line...no question. But these are his prior 4 years to 2004: 2000- .287/.377/.375 (solid) 2001- .255/.323/.334 (bad) 2002- .275/.341/.418 (solid) 2003- .244/.321/.336 (bad - and injured) Vizquel will be 38 next year- and you shouldn't rely on him being as good as this year. In fact, he's likely to hit more like 2001/2003 than he will hit like 2002/2004. I think he'll likely to be a hole in the lineup. His current contract is $6.5 million/year. He may want something like $3-$4 million per year for 2 years. He's not worth it. The Sox would be better off either spending $8-$10 million on a star shortstop in his prime, or just going with Uribe or keeping Valentin at $2-$3 million per year. More important is finding a shortstop in the Sox system - and I don't know if there is one in the system now. Agreed! Jose is not ideal, but his power is still an asset. His defense is better than Vizquel's. He'd still be a good player in a platoon -- a large part of his slide has been due to the fact that, each of the last few years, his role against lhp has increased. Jose is pure platoon, and used that way, is still valuable. Vizquel is more consistent against both rhp and lhp, but his obp will most likely be .340 or lower (.340 is his career obp, and whatever your position on age, he can't still be improving at 38), and he has very little power (this year is an aberration in that respect too). Even if that seems like a worthwhile switch (and I find that questionable), Vizquel is a health risk. Even moreso if Jose Mesa finds a place in the AL. Isn't Vizquel the one who had that quip about learning golf in st? Something like, 'I address my golf clubs each morning like a general addressing his troops. I tell them, boys, we're going out on a very important mission this morning. And some of you won't be coming back.' I love that bit, but I haven't been able to google it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Anyone who isn't named Jose ValentinE, please god! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 How can you say with a straight face that Jose is better than Omar defensively?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 How can you say with a straight face that Jose is better than Omar defensively?? Better arm, but certainly not more sure handed. In the aggregate, Vizquel>Valentin IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 No more old guys! Start investing playing time in some guys who will be with us for several years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 No more old guys! Start investing playing time in some guys who will be with us for several years. Vizquel would be perfect for a couple of years. Uribe gets a couple years as the super utlility man, then takes over at short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Why not play Uribe when he's cheap? He'll be a free agent in a couple years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Why not play Uribe when he's cheap? He'll be a free agent in a couple years... I, for one, am not convinced Uribe is an everyday player...... I think the club would be stronger if Uribe played the utility role and got extensive time playing all three infield positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Socks Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Rex, your analysis of Uribe cannot be evaluated unless we know to what other SS you are comparing him. If you are comparing him to Jose, I think Uribe would be much, much better. That kid from Clevelan, Omar, is a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Rex, your analysis of Uribe cannot be evaluated unless we know to what other SS you are comparing him. If you are comparing him to Jose, I think Uribe would be much, much better. That kid from Clevelan, Omar, is a different story. Let's put it this way.......... regardless of who the starter is (let's assume it is not Jose Valentin), I think the Sox would be a better club and more able to compete for a playoff spot with Uribe as a utility guy. I might be wrong, but that is my gut feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Let's put it this way.......... regardless of who the starter is (let's assume it is not Jose Valentin), I think the Sox would be a better club and more able to compete for a playoff spot with Uribe as a utility guy. I might be wrong, but that is my gut feeling. I agree. Uribe gives the Sox a back up at 3 positions. If someone goes down with an injury at any one of those three spots, Uribe could step right in and not lose much production and defense. IMO, he's far more valuable than Tony g was, because Uribe has more talent and can play like a starter on an everyday basis for the Sox. Tony G was a bench guy, not a starter. Uribe probably is a starter, but can pay him like a UTL guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 I agree. Uribe gives the Sox a back up at 3 positions. If someone goes down with an injury at any one of those three spots, Uribe could step right in and not lose much production and defense. IMO, he's far more valuable than Tony g was, because Uribe has more talent and can play like a starter on an everyday basis for the Sox. Tony G was a bench guy, not a starter. Uribe probably is a starter, but can pay him like a UTL guy. Don't forget we also have Wilson Valdez to possibly fill that role next season as well, should be an interesting off-season just to see what happens at 2B, SS and 3B next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Don't forget we also have Wilson Valdez to possibly fill that role next season as well, should be an interesting off-season just to see what happens at 2B, SS and 3B next season. With Crede still flailing away at the plate [looking worse than horrible], I really would like the Sox to land a FA 3bman or trade for one. With Uribe and Valdez both RH hitters, a LH hitting 3Bman or switch hitter would be ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 How can you say with a straight face that Jose is better than Omar defensively?? He has a stronger arm and gets to more balls in his area than Vizquel. It's true that his hands aren't as good, but watching how bad Kaz Matsui has been for the Mets, I've appreciated more and more the import of the zone stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.