DBAHO Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Former Providence Catholic High School pitcher Kris Honel has returned to using his old delivery in a rehab assignment at Class A Bristol. After a successful minor league debut, Honel changed his mechanics last winter, but the result was a dead arm and a loss of velocity on his fastball. Honel was cleared to pitch after a series of medical tests revealed no arm problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Thats good, maybe he can return to old form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 I think alot of players in our organization should take notice of that. We have far too many power arms losing velocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Boy, it sure would be nice to have Honel return to his old form. I haven't really payed attention to the whole situation at all this year? What was the problem with his arm, and is it likely he'll be able to return to his old form? Or is it just a coinflip now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Boy, it sure would be nice to have Honel return to his old form. I haven't really payed attention to the whole situation at all this year? What was the problem with his arm, and is it likely he'll be able to return to his old form? Or is it just a coinflip now? Well basically his fastball went from 88-92 to 80. He said his arm was hurting and the Sox ended up basically thinking of it as a dead arm. They didn't see any damage on any tests or anything and he sat out a bit and tried to come back but has had absolutely no velocity. I don't got a problem with him going back to his old mechanics. I don't know if a minor change will add 8 MPH or not, but hopefully a hard working offseason on strengthening his arm and somehow restoring his confident (I'm sure this year is tough mentally). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Do you guys know why Honel changed his mechanics, was it just a decision he made, or an organizational decision? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Do you guys know why Honel changed his mechanics, was it just a decision he made, or an organizational decision? I'd assume the organization thought it would help him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxfan79 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 What is it with this organization screwing with a pitchers mechanics? Is there any pitcher who can hit 95 on the radar gun in this organization? I remember reading last year Frankie Fransico was only pitching somewhere from 90 to 92 mph, then a trade happens and all of the sudden he is hitting 98. My dad always told me if is not broke don't fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Felix Diaz was supposed to throw 93-95 accodring to BA but in reality he is 89-92. Kip Wells was 91-93 with us back in '01 but 93-97 with Pirates in '02. Honel's old mechanics might have put more strain on his arm joints, but at least he was, you know, good. He is no use to anybody throwing 85. Hell, even 89-90 is not enough. Give me 92-94, plus a knuckle curve and a change, and we're in business. Don't hold your breath on 92-94......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 He is no use to anybody throwing 85. Tell moyer that. If you know how to really know how to pitch 85 is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MnSoxFan Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 That's what he threw as a wiry kid in HS. No reason why he couldn't as a pro if he is stronger and healthy. Honel never threw that hard in HS, unless they used a bad jugs gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Tell moyer that. If you know how to really know how to pitch 85 is enough. How many "Moyer's" are out there? Moyer is the exception, not the rule. He also did not become an effective Major League pitcher until he was 32-33 years old, depending on which year you call his breakthrough season. Moyer's early years....... Year Team W - L ERA 1986 Cubs 7 - 4 5.05 1987 Cubs 12 - 15 5.10 1988 Cubs 9 - 15 3.48 1989 Rangers 4 - 9 4.86 1990 Rangers 2 - 6 4.66 1991 Cardinals 0 - 5 5.74 1993 Orioles 12 - 9 3.43 1994 Orioles 5 - 7 4.77 1995 Orioles 8 - 6 5.21 1996 Red Sox/Mariners 13 - 3 3.98 Note: He spent parts of several of those seasons in AAA, including all of the 1992 season. He seemed to have found a home in Seattle going 17-5, 3.86 in 1997. HE has only had one year with an ERA higher than 4.00 since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 How many "Moyer's" are out there? Moyer is the exception, not the rule. He also did not become an effective Major League pitcher until he was 32-33 years old, depending on which year you call his breakthrough season. Moyer's early years....... 1986 1987 1988 Damn, those are some bad years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Work with me here........ the table is finally done..... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Moyer wasn't a total soft-tosser when he came up to the Cubs. He threw upper 80s, and struck out a fair number of guys. Guys who can succeed at 85 mph are rare indeed. You need pinpoint control which is not something one can "pick up in the offseason." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetsy Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Honel, Kris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Appalachian League » Bristol Sox 07/18 to 08/25 2001 W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR 2 3 0 3.13 8 46.0 41 19 16 9 45 4 Arizona League » White Sox 06/27 to 07/05 2001 W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR 2 0 0 1.80 3 10.0 9 3 2 3 8 0 Carolina League » Winston-Salem Warthogs 08/29 to 08/29 2002 W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR 0 0 0 1.69 1 5.1 3 2 1 3 8 0 South Atlantic League » Kannapolis Intimidators 04/07 to 08/24 2002 W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR 9 8 0 2.82 26 153.1 128 57 48 52 152 12 Southern League » Birmingham Barons 07/12 to 08/15 2003 W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR 1 0 0 3.75 2 12.0 9 6 5 6 13 2 Carolina League » Winston-Salem Warthogs 04/05 to 08/29 2003 W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR 9 7 0 3.11 24 133.0 122 51 46 42 122 7 Also makes you think twice about McCarthy, who (1) has a higher strikeout rate; (2) lower walk rate - by about half; and (3) allows fewer hits. And remember, many people were thinking of Kris Honel as a top-of-the-rotation starter (a #2 or #1 potentially). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Alot of people were thinking Honel would become what Gavin Floyd of the Phillies is. They expected Honel to fill out and get his fastball to 93-95 consistenly. They expected a poor mans Gavin Floyd, what we have so far is a welfare-laden card board box living Gavin Floyd. With that said, here's to hoping his old delivery will bring back the pitcher we thought we were going to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 There are very few #1's or #2's coming up through the minors. Each organization would be lucky to have more than one in their system at any time. Even with a guy like McCarthy who has done very well to this point, it is too early to determine where he will end up. Keep in mind that most every #3, 4 and 5 in the big leagues were very good minor leaguers. Just because a pitcher is the best in the system or has a good year or two doesn't make him a #1 or #2. My guess is the Sox have no #1's at this point and only McCarthy is potentially a #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Of course, you never can tell....(see also, Buehrle, Mark) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Of course, you never can tell....(see also, Buehrle, Mark) and what is Mark?? a true #1? don't think so...... is he even a #2 on a WS team? perhaps not...... still a very solid pither, but not your true ace by any means...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 There are very few true aces in the big leagues. Not every team in baseball has one, I would bet even half the teams in baseball don't have one. There are even fewer aces in the minor leagues, usually they develop into an ace from a very solid pitching prospect once they play a few years in the big leagues. We have a few guys that have that potential, but then again its just potential. McCarthy could become an ace if he does add 2-3 mph to his fastball to go along with his pinpoint control, but thats a huge question as to whether that speed will be added. Gio Gonzales has the potential if he keeps developing at an above average rate. I don't really see anyone else with ace potential unless they make great strides over the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBetsy Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 and what is Mark?? a true #1? don't think so...... is he even a #2 on a WS team? perhaps not...... still a very solid pither, but not your true ace by any means...... There are very few Aces by most standards. Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Johan Santana, Jason Schmidt, Curt Schilling, Tim Hudson, ... it could easily be argued that there are only 10 or so #1 Pitchers in the major leagues. There is no shame in saying that Buehrle is a #2 or that McCarthy projects as a #2. I'm not sure that anyone can project someone as a #1 starter. The last guy the Sox had who was projected as a #1 was Rauch...a torn labrum later, he looks like a #4 guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 There are very few Aces by most standards. Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, Johan Santana, Jason Schmidt, Curt Schilling, Tim Hudson, ... it could easily be argued that there are only 10 or so #1 Pitchers in the major leagues. There is no shame in saying that Buehrle is a #2 or that McCarthy projects as a #2. I'm not sure that anyone can project someone as a #1 starter. The last guy the Sox had who was projected as a #1 was Rauch...a torn labrum later, he looks like a #4 guy. no one said there was any shame in it.......... just stating the facts. From what I have told, Gio does not have #1 potential...... likely scenario, #3-#5.... best case, #2..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Yeah but Rex I don't know that those people know how Gio is going to develop at only 18 this year. With 3 good pitches at 18 years old, I think he could have a bright future. But then again those sources could and probably will be right. I would take a 2-3 type starter from him anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Yeah but Rex I don't know that those people know how Gio is going to develop at only 18 this year. With 3 good pitches at 18 years old, I think he could have a bright future. But then again those sources could and probably will be right. I would take a 2-3 type starter from him anyday. Frame/size mostly...... I know there are exceptions, but I am not willing to bet my house on it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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