WHarris1 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Good news all around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Yeah I don't like the Freddy move -- According to Ozzie Diaz is heading to the pen. I'd like him to get as many innings as possible in at the ML level before next season. I just don't see Grilli being in a position to help this team in any other fashion than out of the pen next season, but Diaz I see playing a much more integral role. -- Why not give the kid the opportunity to gain some much needed on the job experience? last 9IP 1ER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/sox.asp?intID=3823664 With the return of Freddy Garcia to the starting rotation this week, Diaz will shift to the bullpen, where Guillen plans to use him "in different roles." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 We cannot just concede the season at this point. It isn't the professional thing to do. Freddy coming back is the right decision. I think Grilli/Diaz is a wash. Keep in mind Diaz's last start was against the lowly Mariners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 We cannot just concede the season at this point. It isn't the professional thing to do. Freddy coming back is the right decision. I think Grilli/Diaz is a wash. Keep in mind Diaz's last start was against the lowly Mariners. It may be a wash for this season, but it's not for next... Diaz is much more likely to contribute to this team next season... We should not concede next season, it's not the professional thing to do, and limiting Diaz's innings will come back to bite you next season even if he's not in the rotation. One of the starters will go on the DL at somepoint, and it would be nice if you had a guy with some experience filling in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 What's the problem with moving him? He's still going to work long relief out of the bullpen. The amount of innings he throws per week won't even change that much. He will see more teams, more lineups. I hardly think next year depends on Diaz throwing 5-10 more innings this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 What's the problem with moving him? He's still going to work long relief out of the bullpen. The amount of innings he throws per week won't even change that much. He will see more teams, more lineups. I hardly think next year depends on Diaz throwing 5-10 more innings this year. Why bother giving those extra innnigs to Grilli? If he ever contributes to the club it will be out of the pen. So why not move him there? It does make a difference. There's probably about 5 more starts left if Diaz was to stay in the rotation @ 6 IP/G = 30 innings. The most innings pitched in one month on the season by our other "long" relief guys out of the pen is about 15IP. That's 15 innings of valuable experience for Diaz, who if he is in the pen, will be buried. And would likely only get about 8-10 innings on the remainder of the season. Next year doesn't just depend on diaz throwing extra innings... What does "forearm tightness" mean, and why risk furter "tightness" by pitching rather meaningless games down the stretch with a $27 MIL investment. Don't let Garcia further his injury before he actually starts collecting on that new contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Why bother giving those extra innnigs to Grilli? If he ever contributes to the club it will be out of the pen. So why not move him there? It does make a difference. There's probably about 5 more starts left if Diaz was to stay in the rotation @ 6 IP/G = 30 innings. The most innings pitched in one month on the season by our other "long" relief guys out of the pen is about 15IP. That's 15 innings of valuable experience for Diaz, who if he is in the pen, will be buried. And would likely only get about 8-10 innings on the remainder of the season. Next year doesn't just depend on diaz throwing extra innings... What does "forearm tightness" mean, and why risk furter "tightness" by pitching rather meaningless games down the stretch with a $27 MIL investment. Don't let Garcia further his injury before he actually starts collecting on that new contract. Diaz has averaged under five innings per start this year. Assuming six per start is very generous. You cannot speculate how many innings he will throw out of the pen by checking the most amount of innings one of our relievers has thrown in a month. Diaz's arm is conditioned for many more pitches per appearance than any of our relivers. He threw four innings in relief earlier this year, none of our 'long relievers' have come close to that. Grilli has shown more composure than Diaz in his starts, and has actually improved in each consecutive outing. Diaz allows a home run almost every three innings pitched. Grilli has earned himself the fifth starter's spot for the rest of the season. Also, Garcia is ready to start again. Letting him throw will not further injure his arm (at least in the way it was previously sore). He didn't have to miss as many starts as he did, but the Sox were very precautious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
He_Gawn Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Sweet, I'm ready to see this kid play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Sweet, I'm ready to see this kid play. Yeah, I've been wishing he would come up to replace JosE for quite awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Diaz has averaged under five innings per start this year. Assuming six per start is very generous. Diaz's last two starts since being called up each went 6 innings, giving up no HR's. Grilli hasn't lasted 6 in any of his outings. You cannot speculate how many innings he will throw out of the pen by checking the most amount of innings one of our relievers has thrown in a month. I believe I just did. Also, Garcia is ready to start again. Letting him throw will not further injure his arm (at least in the way it was previously sore). He didn't have to miss as many starts as he did, but the Sox were very precautious. Forgive me for wanting to be cautious with our "ace". Given our past history this season, what makes you feel comfortable with the diagnosis you've been given as sanatized by this organization... Frank sat with a "hamstring" before his stress fracture was revealed and Maggs sat with "tenderness" following a collision before eventually requiring surgery, and a subsequent diagnosis of bone marrow adema. Do you actually think that Garcia's "tightness" is just tightness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Grilli hasn't lasted 6 in any of his outings. Check that one again stat-boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 We cannot just concede the season at this point. It isn't the professional thing to do. Why not? If it's not professional to concede the year now why would any team trade players mid-season? No team is mathematically uliminated near July. There's comes a point where you simply have to conceede a losing effort and look forward to next year. Starting Garcia this week is unneccessary and no good can come of it. Speaking of unprofessional, wouldn't you believe releasing Mike Jackson (this late in the season) was just that? This is baseball; not Ethics 101. Most fans have come to the realization this team lacks the talent/motivation to make a run and have accepted it. Now management does not need to hang a White Flag over The Cell, but atleast become considerate of the future. Valentin? Bench him. Alomar(s)? Bench them. Garcia? Sit him down. Give Valdez, Borchard, Harris frequent playing time and make an adequate decision and how they perform these last few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Why not? If it's not professional to concede the year now why would any team trade players mid-season? No team is mathematically uliminated near July. There's comes a point where you simply have to conceede a losing effort and look forward to next year. Starting Garcia this week is unneccessary and no good can come of it. Speaking of unprofessional, wouldn't you believe releasing Mike Jackson (this late in the season) was just that? This is baseball; not Ethics 101. Most fans have come to the realization this team lacks the talent/motivation to make a run and have accepted it. Now management does not need to hang a White Flag over The Cell, but atleast become considerate of the future. Valentin? Bench him. Alomar(s)? Bench them. Garcia? Sit him down. Give Valdez, Borchard, Harris frequent playing time and make an adequate decision and how they perform these last few weeks. Say we gain 1 game on Minnesota before we play them in one week (unlikely, but not unfathomable). Would you still wish to concede the season being 6.5 games back with 6 games remaining with the Twins? Assuming Freddy is healthy enough to finish out the season, I think conceding the season is bad policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Say we gain 1 game on Minnesota before we play them in one week (unlikely, but not unfathomable). Would you still wish to concede the season being 6.5 games back with 6 games remaining with the Twins? Assuming Freddy is healthy enough to finish out the season, I think conceding the season is bad policy. I agree, it is not likely at all that they make the play-offs but it is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 valdez should play every inning for the rest of the year. garcia should not pitch again diaz and grilli should both be in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Say we gain 1 game on Minnesota before we play them in one week (unlikely, but not unfathomable). Would you still wish to concede the season being 6.5 games back with 6 games remaining with the Twins? Assuming Freddy is healthy enough to finish out the season, I think conceding the season is bad policy. Are we going to get the "healthy" Garcia who gave up 6HR's and 14ER in 11.1 innings in his last two starts? Diaz and Grilli have pitched better than Garcia of late. Wouldn't Garcia pitching be more or less conceding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Wouldn't Garcia pitching be more or less conceding? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Say we gain 1 game on Minnesota before we play them in one week (unlikely, but not unfathomable). Would you still wish to concede the season being 6.5 games back with 6 games remaining with the Twins? I'll continue to watch this team and support them as I've done for 19 years, but my mind wouldn't change with a one game swing. Sox need to be 4 1/2 games out at the start of the Minnesota series to give themselves a glimmer of hope. That way winning 2/3 in the dome sets them 3 1/2 back with 20 (?) games left. Even though the numbers may suggest its possible, I simply don't believe our team can pull it out. I'm not going to change you mind if you feel the season isn't over, or Garcia is worth chasing a pipe dream. Last season Soxtalk was engaged in the same discussion of "expecting the impossible" and our wishes weren't fulfilled. There's existed a precedent to Sox mediocrity and I don't expect it to change over the course of 30 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Am I the only one who feels Grilli doesn't have the command to be a good big league pitcher, and that, more or less he's been 'lucky' these past two starts? He's getting hit really hard, granted, he's done a solid job getting out of some jams, but... I dunno. It just - IMHO - seems that Diaz has had a plan in his past two starts (even the Oakland start, after he settled down). I can't explain his plan - yet he seems to want to pitch hitters up and in, after getting ahead in the count with a pitch on the corner - then he'll drop a slider/changeup on the corner. He can then throw something in the dirt - blah - I'm just confusing myself and everyone on this board... But - back to my point - am I the only one who feels that Diaz has developed a sort of 'plan' and that he seems to be gaining the form of his AAA Charlotte numbers had shown (Ugh - butchered that sentence gramatically.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 am I the only one who feels that Diaz has developed a sort of 'plan' and that he seems to be gaining the form of his AAA Charlotte numbers had shown Did you read the first page? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Did you read the first page? Yes - and it's mostly you and E38 bantering about Diaz' role next year, Grilli next year, the point of Garcia pitching, and a little bit about Valdez thrown in. That's why I asked my question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I'll continue to watch this team and support them as I've done for 19 years, but my mind wouldn't change with a one game swing. Sox need to be 4 1/2 games out at the start of the Minnesota series to give themselves a glimmer of hope. That way winning 2/3 in the dome sets them 3 1/2 back with 20 (?) games left. Even though the numbers may suggest its possible, I simply don't believe our team can pull it out. I'm not going to change you mind if you feel the season isn't over, or Garcia is worth chasing a pipe dream. Last season Soxtalk was engaged in the same discussion of "expecting the impossible" and our wishes weren't fulfilled. There's existed a precedent to Sox mediocrity and I don't expect it to change over the course of 30 days. I obviously see where you're coming from. I don't believe the Sox will be playing in October. I'd rather go out giving it our best shot. Give me Garcia and Diaz/Grilli instead of just Diaz and Grilli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Yes - and it's mostly you and E38 bantering about Diaz' role next year, Grilli next year, the point of Garcia pitching, and a little bit about Valdez thrown in. That's why I asked my question... Well I think I speak for Cheat and Tony when I say they agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 CWS, you're not the only one -- Even in having listened to the a few of grilli's starts down at charlotte, the only person who tought he was major league ready was an opposing annoucer who was a personal friend of the Grilli's and had played with his father back in the day... And that guy(I don't remember who it was) said Grilli had "control issues". Diaz has more potential than does Grilli, is more likely to contribute to the team next year, and is currently pitching comparably to Grilli. To me, there's just no reason to play Grilli over Diaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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