Adkins Fastball

[Wise Master Buehrle]

How high were they advertising Jon's fastball at in the beginning of the year? I think they had him at 92 or 93. Now I see his fastball poppin' up to 94 and 95 sometimes. I think he's still got some growing to do, and maybe he can add even more mph to it.

[mike12345]

yeah he has been a pleasant suprise..i think he could become a very good setup man or mayeb even a closer

[WilliamTell]

Yeah, Adkins is a nice surprise, I think he should have been used more earlier in the year when he's healthy instead of Mike Jackson.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

Yeah, Adkins is a nice surprise, I think he should have been used more earlier in the year when he's healthy instead of Mike Jackson.

Jackson was effective for the first month and a half, then the AL caught on and never looked back.

 

Yeah, Adkins is showing us he has what it takes. I can't wait to watch him pitch next year.

[southsider2k5]

Hawk was hinting the other night that Adkins future could be as closer. Opinions?

[mike12345]

cotts is also doing good. i wouldnt consider him a suprise because we had high expectations for him. adkins could be a closer but i think marte or takatsu belong there now. As for Cotts, what do yall think his role should be next year: mid. relief, setup, or starter??? He has shown periods where he is dominant, but also times where he just can't get it together. I hope next year he comes out with more experience and can keep his composure a little more..

[Wise Master Buehrle]

Hawk was hinting the other night that Adkins future could be as closer.  Opinions?

If he somehow adds and 2-3 mph to his fastball and still have movement, it's a good possibility. He is 27 years old, so adding more mph to his fastball is a slim to none chance.

 

You usually want a closer to either throw some serious heat, or some serious junk, ala Shingo. If we had to choose between Adkins and Shingo as closer next year, I'd go with Shingo because Adkins still doesn't have an extremely nasty fastball.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

cotts is also doing good. i wouldnt consider him a suprise because we had high expectations for him. adkins could be a closer but i think marte or takatsu belong there now. As for Cotts, what do yall think his role should be next year: mid. relief, setup, or starter??? He has shown periods where he is dominant, but also times where he just can't get it together. I hope next year he comes out with more experience and can keep his composure a little more..

I really wanted to see Cotts as a starter, but it doesn't look like he'll ever be one with the Sox now. I hate how Ozzie is using him like a Kelly Wunsch. Although the past few weeks he's used him as a more long reliever. If we have both Cotts and Adkins as effective long relievers, or use Diaz as a long reliever and stick Adkins in as a right handed setup man that can still go a few innings, we should be in good shape next year.

 

With all these options we have in the bullpen, it'd seem strange to acquire one via trade or free agency. Our options are:

 

Politte

Adkins

Cotts

Diaz

Shingo

Marte

Baj

 

I'd loooove to add a Mota or something and dump Politte, however with the quantity of long relievers, one would have to stay in AAA, my guess being Diaz. The work would be very slim up here with 3 long relievers... ahh we have a bullpen mess.

 

What we should do is trade Garland, stick Diaz/Grilli in the 5 hole, and acquire one of those top of the line pitchers KW was talking about during the offseason. Garland we could get some talent for because he is still young, and if Grilli and Diaz continue their success, it could make him expendable. If we do land a great pitcher in the offseason, I'd trade either of Diaz/Grilli/Garland, whomever has the most value. That would give Diaz work at the ML level.

[soxfan420]

I really wanted to see Cotts as a starter, but it doesn't look like he'll ever be one with the Sox now. I hate how Ozzie is using him like a Kelly Wunsch. Although the past few weeks he's used him as a more long reliever. If we have both Cotts and Adkins as effective long relievers, or use Diaz as a long reliever and stick Adkins in as a right handed setup man that can still go a few innings, we should be in good shape next year.

 

With all these options we have in the bullpen, it'd seem strange to acquire one via trade or free agency. Our options are:

 

Politte

Adkins

Cotts

Diaz

Shingo

Marte

Baj

 

I'd loooove to add a Mota or something and dump Politte, however with the quantity of long relievers, one would have to stay in AAA, my guess being Diaz. The work would be very slim up here with 3 long relievers... ahh we have a bullpen mess.

 

What we should do is trade Garland, stick Diaz/Grilli in the 5 hole, and acquire one of those top of the line pitchers KW was talking about during the offseason. Garland we could get some talent for because he is still young, and if Grilli and Diaz continue their success, it could make him expendable. If we do land a great pitcher in the offseason, I'd trade either of Diaz/Grilli/Garland, whomever has the most value. That would give Diaz work at the ML level.

if we sign a top tier free agent pitcher why not keep them because a pitcher will always get hurt and a callup is always needed. plus sticking garland in the 5 spot with a .500 record is really good.

[witesoxfan]

And to think, people thought we got ripped off when all we got for Durham was Adkins. HA! KW showed them

[Wise Master Buehrle]

if we sign a top tier free agent pitcher why not keep them because a pitcher will always get hurt and a callup is always needed. plus sticking garland in the 5 spot with a .500 record is really good.

Keep all of them? We could trade Garland, have Diaz and Grilli fight for spot number 5, and if one of them goes down, call up the other.

[CWSGuy406]

Hawk said that Adkins isnt built for the pen. Either a starter, or mabye closing. I could see him closing. Give Shingo a few nights off and see what happens when you thorw Adkins in that situation.

 

Whats the worst that could happen? We lose ground to Minny??    

I respect Hawk - but how could Adkins be suited to be a closer, and suited to be a starter, but not be suited to pitch out of the bullpen? Closer, followed by being a starter, have much more pressure than being a middle relief guy.

 

Next year, I want to see Adkins in a 6th-7th inning role. We're going to need he and Cotts, to get us to Marte-Politte-Mota ( ), and then to Shingo. Solidifying this bullpen to one of the best in the league will be a lot more important, IMHO, than finding a fifth starter (then again, that's a much different story if this team goes out and gets Pedro...).

[CWSGuy406]

Keep all of them? We could trade Garland, have Diaz and Grilli fight for spot number 5, and if one of them goes down, call up the other.

I'm sorry, Zero, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Unless we are able to get a player that seriously helps out this team (and I mean a lot - it would have to blow my socks off), I'd rather keep Garland. Even though Diaz and Grilli are pitching well now, so what? What pressure is there for either of these two guys? If we have to rely on yet another unproven fifth starter - the spot that has, essentially, cost us the division the past few years - then I'm going to be pretty pissed.

 

We know the worst of Jon Garland. The worst is a sub-500 pitcher who will post, at MOST, a 5.10 ERA - probably even less. However - have we seen his best? We know how good he can be - I'd love to stick him in the five hole, not a lot of pressure. He's 24... I'll keep preaching that, because most pitchers are inconsistent at this age.

 

Anyways - ideally, I'd like to have no question marks in our rotation - and if we're relying on Diaz/Grilli to get the job done in the five spot - I just think that's a question mark.

 

P.S. I also don't think Grilli will have a future with this team as a starter. IMHO, he doesn't have good command. I'm all for him proving me wrong, but I think his future is in the bullpen. Diaz is a different story - he has potential to be a damn good starter - a #3, #4, IMHO...

[Yossarian]

I'm ohhhh so tired of Garland and his "what me worry"? attitude. Goodbye Jon. The other Jon (Adkins) has been a pleasant surprise and I hope he can continue to improve. His ball moves and he's not afraid to challenge hitters.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

I'm sorry, Zero, but I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  Unless we are able to get a player that seriously helps out this team (and I mean a lot - it would have to blow my socks off), I'd rather keep Garland.  Even though Diaz and Grilli are pitching well now, so what?  What pressure is there for either of these two guys?  If we have to rely on yet another unproven fifth starter - the spot that has, essentially, cost us the division the past few years - then I'm going to be pretty pissed.

 

We know the worst of Jon Garland.  The worst is a sub-500 pitcher who will post, at MOST, a 5.10 ERA - probably even less.  However - have we seen his best?  We know how good he can be - I'd love to stick him in the five hole, not a lot of pressure.  He's 24...  I'll keep preaching that, because most pitchers are inconsistent at this age.

 

Anyways - ideally, I'd like to have no question marks in our rotation - and if we're relying on Diaz/Grilli to get the job done in the five spot - I just think that's a question mark. 

 

P.S. I also don't think Grilli will have a future with this team as a starter.  IMHO, he doesn't have good command.  I'm all for him proving me wrong, but I think his future is in the bullpen.  Diaz is a different story - he has potential to be a damn good starter - a #3, #4, IMHO...

Now I'm not saying that Garland is worthless. There is still pressure on Diaz and Grilli. The pressure to pitch well. They have to pitch well, and they know it. If they don't, they're not going to have a good chance of making the roster come Spring Training. Now, if they're both good during this last month, Garland is expendable, as long as we get somebody that is good. You're right, Garland is still 24, which makes his trade value just as good. Every year he pitches like this his value decreases. If Diaz and Grilli impress, why not trade Garland? A change of scenery would be good for him. He just can't get his head on straight here.

 

Bottom line is, I want Diaz making the team on Spring Training. We have a dearth of long relievers and I really don't want a 4/5 of Garland/Diaz. I also want him to preserve his arm strength. I don't know how we can fit him in... but some sort of trade is the best option.

[CWSGuy406]

Now I'm not saying that Garland is worthless. There is still pressure on Diaz and Grilli. The pressure to pitch well. They have to pitch well, and they know it. If they don't, they're not going to have a good chance of making the roster come Spring Training. Now, if they're both good during this last month, Garland is expendable, as long as we get somebody that is good. You're right, Garland is still 24, which makes his trade value just as good. Every year he pitches like this his value decreases. If Diaz and Grilli impress, why not trade Garland? A change of scenery would be good for him. He just can't get his head on straight here.

 

Bottom line is, I want Diaz making the team on Spring Training. We have a dearth of long relievers and I really don't want a 4/5 of Garland/Diaz. I also want him to preserve his arm strength. I don't know how we can fit him in... but some sort of trade is the best option.

But Garland has given us a whole season of good pitching (for a number five, at least). We don't know that Grilli or Diaz can do that. We thought Danny Wright was ready for the past couple of years (this year discluded - I blame Danny ZERO for his pitching this year, he was pitching injured), yet he wasn't.

 

I guess I'm just saying - while I'm not totally opposed to trading Jon - I'd rather go into the season, with one FA pitcher, Contreras as our number four, and Garland as our number five. Diaz could be a spot starter/long reliever - I wouldn't mind him playing a Glendon Rusch sort of role for us next year.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

f*** I am so sick of that statement. Your right, most 24 year old's are inconistant in the MLB. BUT, most 24 year olds havent been in the majors for 3+ years. The guy should get it by now, and he doesnt. If he ever finds a par of Balls, he will figure it out, but untill then, he is going to be the same pitcher at 34 then he is a 24.

At 24, his trade value is still high.

 

A lot of us are sick of his attitude and the comments he made this year are unacceptable.

 

He has a lot of talent but I don't think it'll be realized with this team.

[CWSGuy406]

f*** I am so sick of that statement. Your right, most 24 year old's are inconistant in the MLB. BUT, most 24 year olds havent been in the majors for 3+ years. The guy should get it by now, and he doesnt. If he ever finds a par of Balls, he will figure it out, but untill then, he is going to be the same pitcher at 34 then he is a 24.

I can see how it can piss you off - but maturity usually comes with age. I just don't want to go into next season, yet again, with a question mark at the five spot.

 

10-10, 5.00 ERA in the four spot? Meh - mediocre. 10-10, 5.00 ERA from the five spot? Solid.

[KipWellsFan]

At 24, his trade value is still high.

 

A lot of us are sick of his attitude and the comments he made this year are unacceptable.

 

He has a lot of talent but I don't think it'll be realized with this team.

I missed these bad comments by Jon Garland, can someone explain more or provide a link?

[Wise Master Buehrle]

But Garland has given us a whole season of good pitching (for a number five, at least).  We don't know that Grilli or Diaz can do that.  We thought Danny Wright was ready for the past couple of years (this year discluded - I blame Danny ZERO for his pitching this year, he was pitching injured), yet he wasn't.

 

I guess I'm just saying - while I'm not totally opposed to trading Jon - I'd rather go into the season, with one FA pitcher, Contreras as our number four, and Garland as our number five.  Diaz could be a spot starter/long reliever - I wouldn't mind him playing a Glendon Rusch sort of role for us next year.

Diaz is too young to be a Glendon Rusch. Diaz is only 24. It would be a waste of an arm to use him as a spot starter, and we're already loaded at long relief. I would love Garland as a number 5 starter, but it appears he has more trade value than Diaz, and honestly I think Diaz can pull a 5.00 ERA in the majors. (same as Garlands ERA right now, which is WORSE than last years)

 

One quick note, I read something on Schoeneweis coming back for maybe one start this season, and then getting ready for next season.... it better not be with the Sox.

[SoxAce]

I read something on Schoeneweis coming back for maybe one start this season, and then getting ready for next season.... it better not be with the Sox.

I was also alittle stunned when I saw that. I was wtf? He better not be back.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

I guess I'm being a little thickheaded here. We could start Diaz at AAA next season as their ace, and just let him get another year of work in. But in my opinion, he is ready for the majors. If we go into next season with Garland as our 5, and he posts an ERA of 5 again, with his potential, I'd look into trading him then.

 

This is all assuming Contreras is reliable as a #3 or #4 starer. I really don't know if he'll be awesome or be a bust. He could be just like Garland where he's good for 2 starts in a row, sucky for 2, good for one, sucky for one...

[MurcieOne]

We know the worst of Jon Garland.  The worst is a sub-500 pitcher who will post, at MOST, a 5.10 ERA - probably even less.  However - have we seen his best?  We know how good he can be - I'd love to stick him in the five hole, not a lot of pressure.  He's 24...  I'll keep preaching that, because most pitchers are inconsistent at this age.

I think this is a good way to look at Garland... I mean I honestly think this is the worst that Jon Garland can pitch with his god given ability. Im not going to go as far as to say that he's going to live up to the Top 1-2 pitcher that he's was pinned with coming up, but I think he's ALOT better than the 5.10 ERA he is currently posting.

 

If he goes into next year as our#5.... he'll be one of the best - if not the best - #5 in the league.

[MurcieOne]

I still think that there is a definite log jam of young starters right now, part of me wants to see Garland as the #5 with Kenny finding a way to add a front end starter to the rotation, but on the other hand, I think that Cotts deserves a chance to pitch in the rotation, because he's never been given a full shot at a spot.

[soxman352000]

So Far Cotts, Diaz,Adkins, Baj, and Munoz(two nights ago) have all given me something to look forward to.

I want to see these guys develop. I think Adkins can be a very effective man out of the pen in the future. Probably a set up type man in the future