kapkomet Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Are you saying that the media also reports when Dems do wrong!? To hear the GOP talk; all the media does is slam the GOP and refuses to cover any Dem wrong doings. Maybe the media isn't so bias after all. Tex, do you really believe the stuff you type sometimes? I know you're a champion of the theory that the GOP is getting rid of our media methodically. Gimmee a break. If the journalistic folks were not so damn lazy and had some integrity, and it wasn't all a contest for the almighty advertising dollar, perhaps it would be different. It's baloney to think the GOP is behind your so called media destruction. Their own lazy, cut-throat tactics are more to blame, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Tex, do you really believe the stuff you type sometimes? I know you're a champion of the theory that the GOP is getting rid of our media methodically. Gimmee a break. If the journalistic folks were not so damn lazy and had some integrity, and it wasn't all a contest for the almighty advertising dollar, perhaps it would be different. It's baloney to think the GOP is behind your so called media destruction. Their own lazy, cut-throat tactics are more to blame, IMO. Oops sorry I just took a swig of this GOP koolaide and feel kind of strange Mega Dittos everybody. Media is biased, gays are evil, Janet Jackson is immoral, we need vouchers, Rush is a victim of over zealous prosecution, Megga Dittos, I'm thinking like everybody else Bush just got lucky to get that air national guard spot, mega dittos, media is biased, must not believe media, mega dittos, only believe Rush and Hannity . . . media sucks, must only trust GOP news, mega dittos, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Oops sorry I just took a swig of this GOP koolaide and feel kind of strange Mega Dittos everybody. Media is biased, gays are evil, Janet Jackson is immoral, we need vouchers, Rush is a victim of over zealous prosecution, Megga Dittos, I'm thinking like everybody else Bush just got lucky to get that air national guard spot, mega dittos, media is biased, must not believe media, mega dittos, only believe Rush and Hannity . . . media sucks, must only trust GOP news, mega dittos, We all know Rush and Hanity are slanted. Hell, they admit it. Now... would the "mainstream" media admit their bias? Hell no! And that's my point. So are you drinking enough koolaid to admit that the "mainstream" media is just as biased against the right for reporting as Rush and Hanity are slanted against the left? That is the question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 We all know Rush and Hanity are slanted. Hell, they admit it. Now... would the "mainstream" media admit their bias? Hell no! And that's my point. So are you drinking enough koolaid to admit that the "mainstream" media is just as biased against the right for reporting as Rush and Hanity are slanted against the left? That is the question... Mega Dittos Kap!! Of course the media is evil. Except Fox, there outstanding, not like the Clinton News Network Must only believe Rush and Hannity. The media is out to destroy America. We would be better off with a government run press, as long as Chaney runs it. Mega Dittos!! I love Rush. He is the greatest American. Rush overcoming that liberal media inspired, activist judge running, plot regarding his heroic battle with pain meds has inspired a generation. I was so moved when he heroically came forward and announced to the world the plot against him really touched me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 See it's stuff like this A member of the audience pulls a demonstrator's hair as he forces her out of an auditorium where President Bush (news - web sites) was addressing a crowd of supporters at Byers Choice in Colmar, Pa. Thursday Sept. 9, 2004. (AP Photo/Jacqueline Larma) Do you think the AP would have run the story if it was a Kerry demonstrator? Damn media bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 See it's stuff like this Do you think the AP would have run the story if it was a Kerry demonstrator? Damn media bias. No actually when it happened two days ago it was no where to be found on the AP wire. You had to go to drudge or somewhere like that to find it. It took a day before the AP ran it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Drudge is where I found it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 If this memo turns out to be a fake, what does this change about the story? The genesis of this latest Bush Guard story is that he failed to meet the demands of the Guard and didn't get punished for it. It doesn't change the fact that he gamed the system, it just changes that one memo. I'm sorry, but if I'm on a jury and the prosecution has been charging the defendant with the same crime over and over again and in the latest trial it has been shown that they used fake evidence, I'd scream "Enough is enough already!". The point isn't that this one aspect of the evidence is phony, the problem is why is phony evidence being used??? If my neighbor is a criminal and I've got the goods on him, I wouldn't use doctored evidence also. So, let's see, one area of the evidence is faked. The other is coming from Kerry's neighbor, political donor, and someone who will have a spot in his administration (if there were going to be one). The same guy who five years ago gave sworn testimony contradicting what he is saying now. Also, I heard his daughter on the radio saying that her father told her the exact opposite of what he is saying now. This doesn't seem strange? I'd bet dollars to doughnuts this case would be dismissed. BTW, isn't forging documents against the law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Mega Dittos Kap!! Of course the media is evil. Except Fox, there outstanding, not like the Clinton News Network Must only believe Rush and Hannity. The media is out to destroy America. We would be better off with a government run press, as long as Chaney runs it. Mega Dittos!! I love Rush. He is the greatest American. Rush overcoming that liberal media inspired, activist judge running, plot regarding his heroic battle with pain meds has inspired a generation. I was so moved when he heroically came forward and announced to the world the plot against him really touched me. Are you ignoring my question on purpose? Megadittos... has nothing to do with my question. I know, you're trying to say that Rush and Hanity started the idea that the media is slanted. Do you seriously believe that the media is NOT biased? No sarcasm please. I really want to know if you serioulsly think that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 I'm sorry, but if I'm on a jury and the prosecution has been charging the defendant with the same crime over and over again and in the latest trial it has been shown that they used fake evidence, I'd scream "Enough is enough already!". The point isn't that this one aspect of the evidence is phony, the problem is why is phony evidence being used??? If my neighbor is a criminal and I've got the goods on him, I wouldn't use doctored evidence also. So, let's see, one area of the evidence is faked. The other is coming from Kerry's neighbor, political donor, and someone who will have a spot in his administration (if there were going to be one). The same guy who five years ago gave sworn testimony contradicting what he is saying now. Also, I heard his daughter on the radio saying that her father told her the exact opposite of what he is saying now. This doesn't seem strange? I'd bet dollars to doughnuts this case would be dismissed. BTW, isn't forging documents against the law? Except no forgery has been proven. In fact, the typeface shown that is in dispute looks remarkably similar to documents provided by the White House created in 1968 regarding Bush's service. Some experts are saying it looks like this was done with an IBM Executive Typewriter using the Bold Typeface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Are you ignoring my question on purpose? Megadittos... has nothing to do with my question. I know, you're trying to say that Rush and Hanity started the idea that the media is slanted. Do you seriously believe that the media is NOT biased? No sarcasm please. I really want to know if you serioulsly think that. I'll take this one. Yes I honestly believe that the media is not biased towards any political party. Take a look at the Swift Boat story for example. If CNN was biased towards the Kerry campaign, they would have ignored it, especially as facts and records released meant that their story held less and less water. Trust me they didn't. You couldnt swing a cat at that network without it hitting a Swift Boat story. Look at Crossfire, that show features strong Conservative commentators and a decent Paul Begala with a blathering idiotic James Carville. MSNBC has Scarborough Country and hired Michael Savage. CNBC hired Dennis Miller whos openly pro-Bush. There's plenty of balance to go around in the major news media these days. The only network I can say that has a genuine bias, is Fox News, the ones who sorta admit it. Watch Fox and Friends, Watch the weekend anchors, look at their evening line up. It's non-stop conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 The documents that were real, then fake, are now real again. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/...ain641481.shtml But as for all this debate about Vietnam... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 (edited) Are you ignoring my question on purpose? Megadittos... has nothing to do with my question. I know, you're trying to say that Rush and Hanity started the idea that the media is slanted. Do you seriously believe that the media is NOT biased? No sarcasm please. I really want to know if you serioulsly think that. Sorry Kap my son was working on his Eagle Scout project last night (and all this weekend) and I was busy helping him and couldn't log in until today. If you really want to read again Tex's Media Guide here it is. And sorry about yesterday, I was looking for sarcastic comedy and only found sarcasm. In the almost morning light, that sucked. Graphically Liberals ---------- Media --------- Conservatives The media looks conservative to a liberal and liberal to a conservative. That is normal and I would consider correct. Liberal's Guide to the Media: Negative story on Dems - Right Wing Conspiracy Positive Story on GOP - Right Wing Conspiracy Positive story on Dems - Wow they got one in a thousand right Neg story on GOP - Wow, they got one in a thousand right Turn on talk radio, Proof of the Right Wing Conspiracy. The media does not allow in intelligent liberal to have a show. Only right wing nut jobs. Proof of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. Conservative's Guide to the Media: Negative story on Dems - Wow they got one in a thousand right or it must be Fox Positive Story on GOP - Wow they got one in a thousand right or it must be Fox Positive story on Dems - Damn Liberal Media Agenda Neg story on GOP - Damn Liberal Media Agenda Turn on talk radio, confirmation of the liberal bias, confirmation of the conservative agenda, mega dittos thinking. The GOP is winning one of the biggest political manuevers in history. Any negative press is explained by the messengers being lying liberals in the media. Any Judge that overturns a law is a damn activist Judge not doing his job. Once they fully indoctrinate the faithful, it's mega dittos time without any checks and balances and our freedoms go out the window. How will you know when any GOP members makes a mistake if you just dismiss it as a liberal conspiracy against him? The GOP enjoyed the Teflon President, Ron Reagan. They liked it so much they decided it would be even better to be the Teflon party. The best way to stop criticism is have it not be believed. Who is the #1 group in our history to stop crooked politicians and expose wrong doings? Journalists and Commentators. What happens when we stop listenening to them and only listen to the parties mouthpieces and cheerleaders? Mega Dittos Rush! What should we believe today? I would go so far as to say the organized attempt by the GOP to discredit all media except the brown noses to be the greatest threat to our freedoms and rights as an American today. Democracy needs a strong journalistic tradition. The NRA always mentions that Dictators first take the guns. Nope, they first take the Radio and TV stations. Remember the TET Offensive? One of the first targets was the government run radio station. The North Vietnamese wanted to sway the minds first. I do not believe that Rush and Hannity started that. I believe it was stumbled upon by the GOP and now is its own movement or campaign by the party. The first line of attack or defense for a conservative candidate or office holder. Edited September 11, 2004 by Texsox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Win and Tex, you have some interesting observations. I don't have a lot of time right now to expand on my thoughts, but I'd like to counter on a couple of examples. I think both of you are right to a certain extent, but one of my bigger questions is, why are Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh and Fox News so popular? If they weren't telling the side of the story people wanted to hear, they would not be as popular as they are, right or wrong? I'll write some more later. I'm curious on your thoughts on the question above as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Well, why is Rush Limbaugh so popular? Because he used to be damn funny. He got his 20 million listeners by espousing a kind of talk radio never heard before and one that clicked with his listeners. Because his message has a populist feel, he can make his listeners attach themselves to a message. His "ditto-heads" agreed with him when he said drug abusers should be sent to prison and now they agree with him that his drug abuse does not warrant him going to prison. He was in right place, right time, right moment. Why aren't there big liberal hosts? Most of them suck ass and can not execute the basics. There's Rhandi Rhodes who has a solid show but isn't on a ton of good affiliates. And Al Franken, who has improved a bunch in six months but is still no Rush Limbaugh. Frankly, the left has not found its Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity. And, speaking from some degree of experience, having found success with conservative talkers, radio program directors see little reason to broaden their horizon. WABC finds itself successful in New York City by being ultra-conservative. Yet, NYC is going to vote for Kerry probably well in excess of 60%. Good ratings does not mean mainstream adoption of your ideas. Why is Fox News successful? Because it markets itself to conservative issues. When you have several organizations independently rallying around your flag - you have good potential to create a loyal following. When you appeal to a part of the audience that believes the media is biased and finally sees someone that slants in your direction, you'll stick there. Fox News may be successful, but is still no monolith. I've never seen average news day ratings exceed 2 million for them. That's a lot of people, but by no means a majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Good points. Rush did get a popular uprising because of an earlier time. I tend to think most Americans are "conservative" in nature (we don't like change) but much more liberal in political thinking. The "conservative" chords are being held in these talk shows, many people identify with these ideals, and that is why they are so popular. But, I think that this creates a "sheep" syndrome, whereby most Americans can't or won't think on their own. I'm 31, but I went through college right before the advent of the web browser software (it was just getting started when I graduated - the internet was telnet for the most part). The internet has made it easy to look at all sorts of information but most college grads now just do not have the critical thinking skills that even 10 years ago were taught. It amazes me when I interview for positions that report to me how much critical thinking in these candidates has diminished. What does that have to do with our media? I think that most people don't want to think for themselves, and the media outlets spin things to control our culture and thinking. APU - this is why I like your posts so much. You usually get both sides of the issue(s) and we should decide what they mean to us. I respect that. Most of the things you come up with I disagree, but you present arguements quite well and it makes me think about the viewpoints I hold to be "true". I wish more people could absorb data and then make a logical choice about a situation then just beleiving a Sean Hannity or a New York Times Op/Ed piece. More later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Kap, I don't think anyone ever really wanted to think for themselves. It's why editorial pages used to hold so much sway 20 years ago. Now, its commentary on TV. People like forceful opinions. If someone like Rush Limbaugh rose up on the scene and decided to sway dem, youd see a similar "ditto head" effect on the left. Especially if conditions were similar. Believe it or not, we're getting to that point. Personally, I don't think most people are conservative. Most people are moderate. They don't want gay marriage, but they don't want a federal amendment to the constitution to prevent it. They don't want a socialized health system, but they want some guarantee of decent healthcare access. They don't want to be wishy-washy in foreign affairs but don't want to be isolated in the world either. The reason more people don't identify themselves as liberal is that the only real lib voices that seem to get through seem so damn shrill and annoying and too extreme. Even for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Do you want to think for yourself? It seems like you do, but I don't want to assume. The single biggest issue that makes me "conservative" is I don't want government telling me what I can and cannot do. I agree 100% about your gay marriage comment, your health care comment, and your foreign affairs comment - you are right, most people hold these beliefs. Government has no business in any of the three... hence why the lunatic fringes seem to be out of the woodwork this election (Bush and his "compassion" to make a gay marraige amendment proposal (BSSSSS!) or "health care for everyone" TM by John Kerry (BSSSSSSSS!). I think people just aren't equipped to "think" anymore, and it leads to the media bias - as these so called journalists wouldn't know real invesigative reporting if they had gum on the bottom of their shoes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Do you want to think for yourself? It seems like you do, but I don't want to assume. The single biggest issue that makes me "conservative" is I don't want government telling me what I can and cannot do. I agree 100% about your gay marriage comment, your health care comment, and your foreign affairs comment - you are right, most people hold these beliefs. Government has no business in any of the three... hence why the lunatic fringes seem to be out of the woodwork this election (Bush and his "compassion" to make a gay marraige amendment proposal (BSSSSS!) or "health care for everyone" TM by John Kerry (BSSSSSSSS!). I think people just aren't equipped to "think" anymore, and it leads to the media bias - as these so called journalists wouldn't know real invesigative reporting if they had gum on the bottom of their shoes... Correcta-f***ing-mundo on the investigative reporting. I honestly think the real last investigative report broken by US media had to have been the Pentagon Papers/Watergate scandal which is 30+ years ago now. One could argue that the Abu Ghraib scandal was broken by US media but I don't really consider the New Yorker magazine a mainstream media source for most people. International media (Guardian, Le Monde, BBC, Haaretz, etc.) has been all over investigative stories like the Hugo Chavez stuff to the voter fraud in 2000. You have to go further and further from most US media to find actual stories that aren't along the lines of "Paris Hilton Lost Her Dog" as if that is some huge media event at all. And I think guys like Rush and the rest of the talking head pundits are so popular is because, to take a line from the movie "Private Parts" -- "People who love him tune in to what he's gonna say next. People who hate them listen to see what he's gonna say next." BTW, Kap, I think you'd like this book "How to Watch TV News" by Neil Postman. He is a media expert and just goes chapter by chapter in how to question news media. He talks about the station having an agenda, having to come up with confrontational shows because that's what people watch and gets ad revenue etc. It's a really good read. As for national health care, I feel that Americans should have some guarantee to health care. I know not everybody likes Michael Moore but he did do a good thing for a piece on his TV show. A guy had a plan with his HMO Humana to cover all problems related to his diabetes. Unfortunately, it got so bad that he needed a pancreas transplant or he was going to die. Humana denied him the transplant (even though they had said they would cover all problems related to his diabetes) So MM and the guy went to their corporate HQ and talked with them, asked the PR guy to help them pick out a casket and staged a mock funeral in front of the building to drive home the point that this guy was going to die if Humana didn't help him with the transplant. Humana caved to honor their original agreement to cover all costs related to his diabetes and got the guy his transplant and now he's living a fully functional life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Win and Tex, you have some interesting observations. I don't have a lot of time right now to expand on my thoughts, but I'd like to counter on a couple of examples. I think both of you are right to a certain extent, but one of my bigger questions is, why are Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh and Fox News so popular? If they weren't telling the side of the story people wanted to hear, they would not be as popular as they are, right or wrong? I'll write some more later. I'm curious on your thoughts on the question above as well. Why are they so popular? They feed on each other. I am glad to see you are lumping them together. Rush does a nice job of setting up straw arguments, bullying people who disagree with him, and making his listeners feel superior to everyone else. I cannot listen to Hannity for more than 2 minutes and cannot fairly critic the Hannitization of America. I dislike anyone telling me they have an exclusive on truth, wisdom, and are the only authory on what is correct. I get that from Hannity in truck loads and Rush in wheel barrow loads. Neither show will ever have an intelligent liberal who can state his case fairly. When they do put on liberals they are usually far left crack pots and easily made fun of. Fox was quick to see the ratings coo that a news source could have if it pandered to conservatives. Of all the media, the most biased is Fox. Which is ironic. They are so far to the right they look like moderates to the conservatives. Again, what worries me even more than the left or right leanings is the movement to make the GOP seemingly perfect. The campaign to discredit judges and the media will eventually leave up with a party who cannot be fairly criticized or corrected. The GOP is trying to destroy the only group that consistently watches them and reports on what they are doing. Media reports will be dismissed as just a liberal smear and judges who fairly and evenly apply the law will be railroaded out in favor of judges who follow the GOP agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 Except no forgery has been proven. In fact, the typeface shown that is in dispute looks remarkably similar to documents provided by the White House created in 1968 regarding Bush's service. Some experts are saying it looks like this was done with an IBM Executive Typewriter using the Bold Typeface. There are plenty of questions about them and the family says that it wouldn't have been like their father and husband to write such a memo. A memo to himself??? Not only that, but the widow states that the memo is 180 degrees from what he felt about having Bush in his command. This, added to the timing (where were these documents in 2000? Why do they still exist at all? Were supposedly from the mans personal files. He died in the early 1980's), and the story about the other main figure (his name escapes me now. Kerry's neighbor), etc. makes something stink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 11, 2004 Share Posted September 11, 2004 The documents that were real, then fake, are now real again. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/...ain641481.shtml But as for all this debate about Vietnam... So Dan Rather, the democratic fundraiser is telling us that the documents are real. Yeah that's an unbiased source. :rolly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerCaseRepublican Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Yeah I found it fun that CBS was verifying the CBS source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 Are you saying that the media also reports when Dems do wrong!? To hear the GOP talk; all the media does is slam the GOP and refuses to cover any Dem wrong doings. Maybe the media isn't so bias after all. I am saying they reported stuff the Dems DID, not MAY HAVE DONE, as you originally put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 There are plenty of questions about them and the family says that it wouldn't have been like their father and husband to write such a memo. A memo to himself??? Not only that, but the widow states that the memo is 180 degrees from what he felt about having Bush in his command. This, added to the timing (where were these documents in 2000? Why do they still exist at all? Were supposedly from the mans personal files. He died in the early 1980's), and the story about the other main figure (his name escapes me now. Kerry's neighbor), etc. makes something stink. Timing? Didn't the Bush campaign just release some documents a couple months ago that were just found? Seems plausible enough that they were just found. The timing doesn't concern me. No one would be looking for them until now, or it took this long for them to be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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