BrandoFan Posted March 20, 2003 Author Share Posted March 20, 2003 I am not asking you to give up your dreams... But in essence you ARE asking me to drastically alter my life and postpone my development for 2 of the most crucial and greatest years in one's life to say nothing of having my life in danger...Such semi-imprisonment doesn't sit well with me. Unless you LOVE being in the military. dont you think if every 19-20 year old did that in some capacity the US would be much better off??? f*** no!!! Give me ONE reason why...and no, the Bush Oil War doesn;t count. Point is, if the national crisis situation ever arises, it means that Russian, France or China have started a full-on war, which likely means that the world is about to end. 10 million ill-trained draftees/foot soldiers ain't gonna make one bit of difference under that scenario...Otherwise not only would a mand. draft significantly f*** with economy and our way of life, but it's totally UNNECESSARY. You have a small bunch of highly-drained volunteers who are PAID to do the job. Let them do it. Thank god we don't have to get forced into the military, thats like saying people should all be forced into college for 2 years, some people just aren't meant to do some things. So you are possibly comparing standing in a boat just before the D-Day, seeing your buddies mowed down one by one, soiling your pants in a catatonic state knowing that your body is about to be ripped apart by a dozen large-caliber machine gun bullets...to sitting in a classroom?! Common, that's just silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I am not asking you to give up your dreams... But in essence you ARE asking me to drastically alter my life and postpone my development for 2 of the most crucial and greatest years in one's life...Such imprisonmnent doesn't sit well with me. Unless you LOVE being in the military. dont you think if every 19-20 year old did that in some capacity the US would be much better off??? f*** no!!! Give me ONE reason why...and no, the Bush Oil War doesn;t count. Thank god we don't have to get forced into the military, thats like saying people should all be forced into college for 2 years, some people just aren't meant to do some things. So you are possibly comparing standing in a boat just before the D-Day, seeing your buddies mowed down one by one, soiling your pants in a catatonic state knowing that your body is about to be ripped apart by a dozen large-caliber machine gun bullets...to sitting in a classroom?! Common, that's just silly. I wasn't talking about DDAY, but if everyone had to be in it 2 years, many of those people would never see any combat, they'd just be in there, learning things, that some would find completely useless, I'd assume. Maybe they aren't as serious, cause your not likely to get killed because your a student, but I thought I made my point that some people aren't meant for somethings. We aren't raising everyone to be in the military, we want people with various skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 I wasn't talking about DDAY, but if everyone had to be in it 2 years, many of those people would never see any combat, they'd just be in there, learning things, that some would find completely useless, I'd assume. You CAN'T do that; it's either "be ready to be in the front line of an assault" or "stay home". Otherwise, it's having your rhetorical cake and eating it too type situation. Just say you don't want to fight and be killed, especially for a trivial reason. Don;t pussyfoot around it, man. I thought I made my point that some people aren't meant for somethings. We aren't raising everyone to be in the military, we want people with various skills. Yeah, but who decides who is meant for anything. I'd imagine not many people would want to partake in a bloody conflict, even if they were paid for it. Am I wrong?> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 No your right and I'm not pussy footing around it. I would go, I'm just against the thought that everyone should enlist for 2 years. I'm not saying those people that volunteer are the ones that should fight in bloody combat. No one should have to fight in bloody combat and I hope one day I'll be able to see society where it is entirely peaceful. Not likely, especially if we left people like Saddam in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan420 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 i believe that each and every person in america should do at least two years of manditory military service at age 18.... I am not a veteran, though I regret that decision today. I agree with this statement. Me neither. I was at the last step prior to being shipped off to the Marine Corps right after HS graduation when my father stepped in and said he'd pay my college tuition. I guess he wanted to see how committed I was to actually going through the steps to pay my own way through college. Still, after 09/11, I wish I would have enlisted even though my tenure would have been after Desert Storm and before 09/11. f*** 2 years mandatory service f*** that. then our military would be just like suddan hussans. forcing people to fight when the dont want to. how f***ing stupid is that. and if i was drafted quess what smilie face i would use yup you guessed right :fyou :fyou is exactly what i would say to the government before i left the country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Hotsoxchick I am not bashing your honesty. It's commmendable in fact. So is your courage to stand up and volunterily fight. I do not wish to belittle your cause because you did what I know I couldn't do. And I am a man... But you need to recognize MY kind of honesty, too. I have said all along that I was against war because I MYSELF WILL NOT BE WILLING TO GO, so what right would I have sending others like a couple of fellers on this board...It;s not cowardice either as I have had about a dozen of school fights for the honour of my girlfriends in which I put my "pretty acting face" in jeopardy. HOWEVER, comparing Pearl Harbor semi-invasion to 9/11 only makes sense because of the number of lives lost. How would extra millions of recruitees have stopped the TERRORIST attack, I'd like to know? I mean, when I say the draft is not practical or necessary in a free, highly-evolved society of US size, I MEANT exactly that. And don't get me started on the NUCLEAR f***IN' AGE and the sheer irrelevance of it all...Dimplomacy and super-evolved covert intelligewnce is the GAME of the future, not Battle of Stalingrad (which BTW was THE turning battle of the WWII, not some pansy ass North African scrap they teach you in school, but I digress...). Saddam will be taken down expediently WITHOUT my talented ass's help. Not that I would fight for oil in the first place, but I think that distinction is lost on your pro-war/pro-gun ass. Whatever. Your unequivocal "you must fight" rhetoric is knee-jerk, plain and simple; it takes into account no circumstances or other factors and it doesn't distinguish. Most men in the history of the world had fought because they had NO CHOICE. I do. I am not a clog in the machine, an interchangeable pawn (remember the Kissinger quote, miss smartypants) or an ant. I am a HUMAN f***in' BEING with dreams and goals and a will to live. I will only risk that in case of severe national emergency. That doesn't make a "pussy"; it makes me "smart" and "ambitious". Boris Pasternak once said during Stalin's regime no less, paraphrased, "In order to fully realize one's individual potential, one needs to rise beyond blind patriotism and, in essence, disown his own country". You'll be surprised how many people YOU respect have adhered to that principle consciously or not. "I would no more be willing to train our children in the military art than I would teach them arsony, robbewry and murder". I fogot who said it... Acting like a fool? Now that;s just idiotic. If you discount the value of art (and entertainment) when it pertains to our very essences and lives, then you are a fool. Plain and simple. Freedom and survival are nice, but once they are out of the way (and Iraq is NOT a f***ing do-or-die threat like Hitler was, remember that, missy;) I am sorry to break it to you, but you live in the PAST (the 40's-50's to be precise). Gone are the days when 100,000 had to die because of some f***ing asshole's whim or war-mongering or profit...Poll majority of young people today about the draft issue and if they have ANY honesty left in them, 85% or so would say something along the lines of "Risk my life for Bush? No effin' way!". Russia/Soviet Union, Pakistan and China among others have mandaroty drafts. Great examples of successful and evolved societies... ok where to begin...geez.......thanks for recognizing my honesty.. now heres some more of it..........i recognize your honesty as being very selfish and self serving...........your not a very good team player are you???? comparing fighting a war to a school ground mix up over a girl is just plain idiotic.........there is no comparison.........you can do better than that.........as for extra recruitees stoping any further terrorist act... how do you know it wouldnt work??? what if there were a few sky marshalls on those flights.... do you think that some asshole would have been able to take over a flight with a box cutter compared to an armed marshall? recruitees could have been used there.... the "top secret boys" knew that something was coming......how about puttin some of those recruitees at the airports before all this s*** started.......extra security measures never hurt anyone.....im compare to pearl harbor because of the simple way the japs invaded us, came over here in a few planes and blasted the s*** out of hawaii........that would have been just a start if we had not reacted fast enough.............how about asking the people of pan am flight (whatever the number was slips my mind right now at this paticular moment sorry) how they felt about being blown out of the sky...........oh thats right you cant.... yet another terrorist attack left unpunished.....how about the first car bombers who drove into the twin towers a few years ago....ask those folks how they feel about terrorism who were involved in that...........there are countless other examples which im sure your educated self knows damn right well about............so i dont need to post all of them up here for you..... when do we get to say enough of this s*** is enough.....when do we put a foot down and try to stop it.......when do we all stick together(includes all countries not only us) on this issue of putting terrorism to rest once and for all..........if we all cooperated and worked together to stop assholes like saddam and bin laden then dont you think that the world would be a bit more safer place to live in???? this cant be accomplished with just 1 or 2 people.. it takes many.........and just what exactly did you mean by my pro war/pro gun ass .. whatever...............i am pro war in this case because its not over oil its all about making things a bit safer in the world by ridding a insane man who would use weapons of distruction for his own causes and not care about those who he hurt with them........as for my pro gun ass. yeah i own one and im a very responsible gun owner.. i cherish the right to shoot your ass dead if you invade my space by force....(meaning break into my home) i love my right to defend my turf and my family in that respect..............you choose another method then thats fine for you.. this just happens to be my choice and i appreciate my rights to make that choice...........and im sorry to break it to you .. i do not live in the past, i fear for the future with pansy ass pussys like yourself who are left in charge of this place..... you all can sit around and say "ohh mr. bad guy, i dont want to take up and defend my cause with force if i have to .. ill just let you come in and run things mr . bad guy ok, because you demanded to and you dont like my cause and i am too much of a puss to defend it forcefully unlike you mr. bad guy"........f*** that.........you people are pussy sissy assed spoiled brats who dont know how f***ing lucky you have it here......try living in a country whos people have no rights because their government let some other country come in and take over because they were too pussy to defend their beliefs with whatever force was necessary..........get hip to the program here pal... either you defend it or you lose it....thats the name of the game in the 2000's .....grow a pair and defend what rights you have or lose them.. its that simple.....you think its not possible for asshole saddam to come in and take over???? yeah right... try asking kuwait how long they suffered at his hands before we were good enough to step in and help them out the first time around.......that could have easily been us being taken over......espically if a bunch of pussys ran the white house............dont knock others rights to defend their rights..........espically if your not willing to defend yours........... 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baggio202 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Hotsoxchick I am not bashing your honesty. It's commmendable in fact. So is your courage to stand up and volunterily fight. I do not wish to belittle your cause because you did what I know I couldn't do. And I am a man... But you need to recognize MY kind of honesty, too. I have said all along that I was against war because I MYSELF WILL NOT BE WILLING TO GO, so what right would I have sending others like a couple of fellers on this board...It;s not cowardice either as I have had about a dozen of school fights for the honour of my girlfriends in which I put my "pretty acting face" in jeopardy. HOWEVER, comparing Pearl Harbor semi-invasion to 9/11 only makes sense because of the number of lives lost. How would extra millions of recruitees have stopped the TERRORIST attack, I'd like to know? I mean, when I say the draft is not practical or necessary in a free, highly-evolved society of US size, I MEANT exactly that. And don't get me started on the NUCLEAR f***IN' AGE and the sheer irrelevance of it all...Dimplomacy and super-evolved covert intelligewnce is the GAME of the future, not Battle of Stalingrad (which BTW was THE turning battle of the WWII, not some pansy ass North African scrap they teach you in school, but I digress...). Saddam will be taken down expediently WITHOUT my talented ass's help. Not that I would fight for oil in the first place, but I think that distinction is lost on your pro-war/pro-gun ass. Whatever. Your unequivocal "you must fight" rhetoric is knee-jerk, plain and simple; it takes into account no circumstances or other factors and it doesn't distinguish. Most men in the history of the world had fought because they had NO CHOICE. I do. I am not a clog in the machine, an interchangeable pawn (remember the Kissinger quote, miss smartypants) or an ant. I am a HUMAN f***in' BEING with dreams and goals and a will to live. I will only risk that in case of severe national emergency. That doesn't make a "pussy"; it makes me "smart" and "ambitious". Boris Pasternak once said during Stalin's regime no less, paraphrased, "In order to fully realize one's individual potential, one needs to rise beyond blind patriotism and, in essence, disown his own country". You'll be surprised how many people YOU respect have adhered to that principle consciously or not. "I would no more be willing to train our children in the military art than I would teach them arsony, robbewry and murder". I fogot who said it... Acting like a fool? Now that;s just idiotic. If you discount the value of art (and entertainment) when it pertains to our very essences and lives, then you are a fool. Plain and simple. Freedom and survival are nice, but once they are out of the way (and Iraq is NOT a f***ing do-or-die threat like Hitler was, remember that, missy;) I am sorry to break it to you, but you live in the PAST (the 40's-50's to be precise). Gone are the days when 100,000 had to die because of some f***ing asshole's whim or war-mongering or profit...Poll majority of young people today about the draft issue and if they have ANY honesty left in them, 85% or so would say something along the lines of "Risk my life for Bush? No effin' way!". Russia/Soviet Union, Pakistan and China among others have mandaroty drafts. Great examples of successful and evolved societies... ok where to begin...geez.......thanks for recognizing my honesty.. now heres some more of it..........i recognize your honesty as being very selfish and self serving...........your not a very good team player are you???? comparing fighting a war to a school ground mix up over a girl is just plain idiotic.........there is no comparison.........you can do better than that.........as for extra recruitees stoping any further terrorist act... how do you know it wouldnt work??? what if there were a few sky marshalls on those flights.... do you think that some asshole would have been able to take over a flight with a box cutter compared to an armed marshall? recruitees could have been used there.... the "top secret boys" knew that something was coming......how about puttin some of those recruitees at the airports before all this s*** started.......extra security measures never hurt anyone.....im compare to pearl harbor because of the simple way the japs invaded us, came over here in a few planes and blasted the s*** out of hawaii........that would have been just a start if we had not reacted fast enough.............how about asking the people of pan am flight (whatever the number was slips my mind right now at this paticular moment sorry) how they felt about being blown out of the sky...........oh thats right you cant.... yet another terrorist attack left unpunished.....how about the first car bombers who drove into the twin towers a few years ago....ask those folks how they feel about terrorism who were involved in that...........there are countless other examples which im sure your educated self knows damn right well about............so i dont need to post all of them up here for you..... when do we get to say enough of this s*** is enough.....when do we put a foot down and try to stop it.......when do we all stick together(includes all countries not only us) on this issue of putting terrorism to rest once and for all..........if we all cooperated and worked together to stop assholes like saddam and bin laden then dont you think that the world would be a bit more safer place to live in???? this cant be accomplished with just 1 or 2 people.. it takes many.........and just what exactly did you mean by my pro war/pro gun ass .. whatever...............i am pro war in this case because its not over oil its all about making things a bit safer in the world by ridding a insane man who would use weapons of distruction for his own causes and not care about those who he hurt with them........as for my pro gun ass. yeah i own one and im a very responsible gun owner.. i cherish the right to shoot your ass dead if you invade my space by force....(meaning break into my home) i love my right to defend my turf and my family in that respect..............you choose another method then thats fine for you.. this just happens to be my choice and i appreciate my rights to make that choice...........and im sorry to break it to you .. i do not live in the past, i fear for the future with pansy ass pussys like yourself who are left in charge of this place..... you all can sit around and say "ohh mr. bad guy, i dont want to take up and defend my cause with force if i have to .. ill just let you come in and run things mr . bad guy ok, because you demanded to and you dont like my cause and i am too much of a puss to defend it forcefully unlike you mr. bad guy"........f*** that.........you people are pussy sissy assed spoiled brats who dont know how f***ing lucky you have it here......try living in a country whos people have no rights because their government let some other country come in and take over because they were too pussy to defend their beliefs with whatever force was necessary..........get hip to the program here pal... either you defend it or you lose it....thats the name of the game in the 2000's .....grow a pair and defend what rights you have or lose them.. its that simple.....you think its not possible for asshole saddam to come in and take over???? yeah right... try asking kuwait how long they suffered at his hands before we were good enough to step in and help them out the first time around.......that could have easily been us being taken over......espically if a bunch of pussys ran the white house............dont knock others rights to defend their rights..........espically if your not willing to defend yours........... hsc...that was freakin awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 thanks baggs.. but i highly doubt it will change his mind as he has on blinders.... and so be it.....when he has to speak iraqi or some stupid s*** like that he will wish he had someone like one of us with a big brass pair on that watch to defend his right to keep speaking english........oh well... i can only hope to keep my right to arms before someone like him takes over office....at least i know ill go down defending to the end.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 My opinion is that I'm only ONE man. I want to live a long healthy life, and want to experience everything that I want to, having to serve in the military, and possibly getting killed, is denying my right to live, and I believe nobody has the right to tell me what to do and when to DIE. A government issued death sentence is not something I want to have happen to me. I couldn't take the thought that me dieing for my country is helping people in the next generations, because my personal belief is that when you die your dead. I don't think I can be chilling up in a "heaven" going "Wow, I feel so good that I'm now DEAD, and my family and friends are all devastated, but hey maybe I'll help our freedoms in the near future, too bad my goverment forced me against my will, to DIE for them" Sorry I just don't buy it. All these freedoms that you are talking about fighting for, especially freedom of choice would be violated if a mandatory military service were instituted. I would have NO choice but to do what they tell me to do. And I think that maybe those people who died before for this country to be FREE would be a little pissed, if those freedoms were denied, by forcing americans to do anything against their will, mandatory military service or otherwise.... Please keep in mind this is MY OPINION, and nobody is gonna change it, reply if you may, but don't try to push your personal beliefs on me, whatever they may be, respect my RIGHT, and FREEDOM of Speech..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Im going to become an American soldier but Im not sure what Ill do. Maybe Ill fly choppers or maybe fight on the ground. Actually cwsox, Im having some doubts on being a fighter. Not out of fear for human beings, but out of fear for God. In the book of Genesis (Im not sure where) it says, "For he who sheds blood, his blood will be shed". I think it was said after Cain slaughtered Abel so I know it applies to murderers but does it apply to combat soldiers too? Im going to get a baptism as soon as possible and I will always pray and read the Bible but if you are in battle and you shoot and kill a guy and then you get killed, I doubt God is going to be very happy with you. Even if that person is an genocidal non-Christian, he like all humans, is a creation of God and therefore he is sacred. Im not saying perfect but he is still a creation of God and all humans are. Faith does not have anything to do with whether you are a creation of God. So, I guess the question is, are soldiers who kill in war grouped in with murderers who kill whoever they please? Im not sure, cw, can you please tell me what you think? Thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 most countries that have a draft also have other alternatvies for those that cant serve or claim conscientous objector status...i just think everyone should give back a little to this country Serving in the military isn't the only way to give back to the US of A. (EDIT: Just read that baggio said this in a later post... My bad). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 My opinion is that I'm only ONE man. I want to live a long healthy life, and want to experience everything that I want to, having to serve in the military, and possibly getting killed, is denying my right to live, and I believe nobody has the right to tell me what to do and when to DIE. A government issued death sentence is not something I want to have happen to me. I couldn't take the thought that me dieing for my country is helping people in the next generations, because my personal belief is that when you die your dead. I don't think I can be chilling up in a "heaven" going "Wow, I feel so good that I'm now DEAD, and my family and friends are all devastated, but hey maybe I'll help our freedoms in the near future, too bad my goverment forced me against my will, to DIE for them" Sorry I just don't buy it. All these freedoms that you are talking about fighting for, especially freedom of choice would be violated if a mandatory military service were instituted. I would have NO choice but to do what they tell me to do. And I think that maybe those people who died before for this country to be FREE would be a little pissed, if those freedoms were denied, by forcing americans to do anything against their will, mandatory military service or otherwise.... Please keep in mind this is MY OPINION, and nobody is gonna change it, reply if you may, but don't try to push your personal beliefs on me, whatever they may be, respect my RIGHT, and FREEDOM of Speech..... I dont know. Considering it doesnt make you a murderer, I think being a soldier would bring glory that no other job could. A new motto for the navy and the military, "Its not a job, its not an adventure, its an honor". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 My opinion is that I'm only ONE man. I want to live a long healthy life, and want to experience everything that I want to, having to serve in the military, and possibly getting killed, is denying my right to live, and I believe nobody has the right to tell me what to do and when to DIE. A government issued death sentence is not something I want to have happen to me. I couldn't take the thought that me dieing for my country is helping people in the next generations, because my personal belief is that when you die your dead. I don't think I can be chilling up in a "heaven" going "Wow, I feel so good that I'm now DEAD, and my family and friends are all devastated, but hey maybe I'll help our freedoms in the near future, too bad my goverment forced me against my will, to DIE for them" Sorry I just don't buy it. All these freedoms that you are talking about fighting for, especially freedom of choice would be violated if a mandatory military service were instituted. I would have NO choice but to do what they tell me to do. And I think that maybe those people who died before for this country to be FREE would be a little pissed, if those freedoms were denied, by forcing americans to do anything against their will, mandatory military service or otherwise.... Please keep in mind this is MY OPINION, and nobody is gonna change it, reply if you may, but don't try to push your personal beliefs on me, whatever they may be, respect my RIGHT, and FREEDOM of Speech..... I dont know. Considering it doesnt make you a murderer, I think being a soldier would bring glory that no other job could. A new motto for the navy and the military, "Its not a job, its not an adventure, its an honor". Hey, alright that's your opinion, I'm not gonna get all bent out of shape about it, our beliefs just differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 dont you think if every 19-20 year old did that in some capacity the US would be much better off??? Jesus Christ... Do you know how much that would cost? We already spend $322 billion on national defense, how much more do you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 My opinion is that I'm only ONE man. I want to live a long healthy life, and want to experience everything that I want to, having to serve in the military, and possibly getting killed, is denying my right to live, and I believe nobody has the right to tell me what to do and when to DIE. A government issued death sentence is not something I want to have happen to me. I couldn't take the thought that me dieing for my country is helping people in the next generations, because my personal belief is that when you die your dead. I don't think I can be chilling up in a "heaven" going "Wow, I feel so good that I'm now DEAD, and my family and friends are all devastated, but hey maybe I'll help our freedoms in the near future, too bad my goverment forced me against my will, to DIE for them" Sorry I just don't buy it. All these freedoms that you are talking about fighting for, especially freedom of choice would be violated if a mandatory military service were instituted. I would have NO choice but to do what they tell me to do. And I think that maybe those people who died before for this country to be FREE would be a little pissed, if those freedoms were denied, by forcing americans to do anything against their will, mandatory military service or otherwise.... Please keep in mind this is MY OPINION, and nobody is gonna change it, reply if you may, but don't try to push your personal beliefs on me, whatever they may be, respect my RIGHT, and FREEDOM of Speech..... you have to go to school from grades k-12 dont you??? you have no choice about that.. this would be an extention of it.... were not always in war time ya know..... and i never said anything about having to be in a constant state of war to carry this mission out... all im saying is that each and every american should be required to serve in some sort of capacity or another in the military ..... if nothing else it will teach you a bit of respect, respoisibility, and team work......something your gonna need in the job market later on in life anyhow.............consider it o.j.t for future life............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Cali, Im sorry if you took offense from what I said but I just want you to know I also respect your opinion and we can disagree because we live in America and thats just what makes us so great. Freedom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 So, I guess the question is, are soldiers who kill in war grouped in with murderers who kill whoever they please? The only thing the Bible says is that killing is wrong unless it's done in self-defense. This leads to a gray area... In this case, where the US believes Iraq to be a threat to world peace, is that threat good enough to qualify Americans killing Iraqis are self-defense? However, since I think the Bible is 99% horses*** I probably couldn't care less about what it says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Cali, Im sorry if you took offense from what I said but I just want you to know I also respect your opinion and we can disagree because we live in America and thats just what makes us so great. Freedom... Oh no I didn't take offense to what you said, I was just taking the opprotunity to state that everyone has there opinions, and that this wasn't going to turn into a huge ass fight, I just happened to quote your particular post. No eveybodies the same it's great that we can all express our own opinions, that's all I'm trying to say.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 However, since I think the Bible is 99% horses*** I probably couldn't care less about what it says. I think you just hit the nail on the head.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Well doub, I dont agree with you but you also have your opinions and I vow to respect that. And this does lead to a gray area. How can we judge self defense? If someone says hes gonna kill you and he doesnt have anyway to do so, and you kill him, is that self defense? Or if he has a way to kill you and doesnt use it yet and you kill him, is that self defense? Or is it only self defense if hes attacking you and you kill him? How bout Iraq? Where you accuse him of having the means and the desire to kill you and then you kill him, is that self defense? Well, what does God think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 ..........i recognize your honesty as being very selfish and self serving...........your not a very good team player are you???? No, I am not...when it comes to dying for a trivial cause. Maybe if Iraqui soldiers were a bit more individualistic, they'd know what's up and put a bullet through Saddam's brain 20 years ago. Alas, they were to much of "for-the-good-of-the-state"-ish to be nothing more than robot-ants in servitude...Please stop pretending like my dissenting views and self-concern are something out of the ordinary; I am being very reasonable here. Not a hero perhaps, but not an evil pussy traitor either. Reading is a skill, hotsoxchick. OF COURSE I would defend this country in case of an outright invasion! And, NO, Kuwait being bullied by Irq is in NO way coimparable to US situ. It's intellectually lazy of you to make that connection just so you can "prove" that I am a pushover who would stand idly as a chinaman (or womeever else) is raping my mother...the best way to lose an argumement is to (wildy) overstate it and make faulty analogies. And please stop distorting what I actually said. Terrorism is terrorism is terrorism and hindsight being 20/20...It wasn;t preventable and suggesting now that pre-emptive drafting should have been implemented...you could do better than that, girlie. I also have heard hundreds of time that this generation is good for nothing and doesn't know it's luck...Maybe there is some truth to that (although the WWII generation has been saying the SAME thing to baby boomers, etc. Nothing new here, believe me. Take a stroll down the history lane and idealism will be washed out of you in a hurry...); I certainly KNOW and realize that being a young white male living in USA in the 21st century is not the worst thing to be to put it mildly (and in fact have heated arguements with my pals who are less appreciative). It's not my fault that I was born in an era of unprecended peace and progress...If you think this war is about anything but oil and personal agnda, you're WRONG. I refuse to die for that cause. By putting forth demagoguery and idealistic-yet-misguided rhetoric (tyranny and aggression are bad and are still of concern in this peaceful time, check) and calling me a traitor, you are winning no points. Your courage is examplary, no doubt about that. BUT you should become a little more cynical once in a while and look around. This is NOT Cold War and there is no reason to create a military state. Other countries may or may not do it out of sheer hopelessness and necessity or whatever...Recognize the difference. We are a highly evolved and thriving nation. Let's not throw it away with thinly-veiled vigilantism. For one, North Korea is still a true threat, alienating the UN is not the best course of action either. Trust me, I've seen just how "respectable and reponsible" Russian soldiers are...except that most of them are hoodlums or punks before entering the military HELL and worse after and the draft itself is just another form of ridding the streets of them...Besides, like, THERE IS A REASON WHY MANDATORY DRAFT IS OUT OF THE QUESTION- even to the US goverment. When you surmise what it is, then we can have an enlightened conversation. You have my respect regardless. Peace. ETA: the "I'd rather win an Oscar than fight the enemy" was a bit tongue-in-cheek/devil-advocate-ish of me. I hope everyone saw through it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 However, since I think the Bible is 99% horses*** I probably couldn't care less about what it says. I think you just hit the nail on the head.... Just be glad you didn't go to private, Catholic school for 13 years.... Unless you did, in which case this post is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 you have to go to school from grades k-12 dont you??? you have no choice about that.. this would be an extention of it.... were not always in war time ya know..... and i never said anything about having to be in a constant state of war to carry this mission out... all im saying is that each and every american should be required to serve in some sort of capacity or another in the military ..... if nothing else it will teach you a bit of respect, respoisibility, and team work......something your gonna need in the job market later on in life anyhow.............consider it o.j.t for future life............ True, I did have to go to school, but people can drop out of school, and they don't get a dishonorable discharge for it I'm all for respect, responsibility, and team work, but you can learn those traits in other places besides the military, even in schools for example, playing on a school team, or some other school groups, band, drama, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 However, since I think the Bible is 99% horses*** I probably couldn't care less about what it says. I think you just hit the nail on the head.... Just be glad you didn't go to private, Catholic school for 13 years.... Unless you did, in which case this post is irrelevant. No I didn't, thank god. Isn't that weird that people who have to go to religious based schools, are more than likely to disregard all the s*** that it was based on? case in point.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Look at TCU, one of the biggest party schools in the country. Not saving everyone there parties, but thats supposed to be this Christian institution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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