YASNY Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 As for the fans, the numbers tell the story. Last year, the Angels sold 13,000 season tickets. This year, they're up to 29,000. Last season, they drew 2.3 million fans. Now they're projecting 2.8 million, and 3 million isn't out of the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 It's hard to tell if you're being critical of JR by posting this, but if you are, take a look at the off-season the Sox had, and then tell me they aren't doing all they can to win in '03. Retaining Thomas, trading for Colon, and solidifying our bullpen by acquiring Tom Gordon and Billy Koch -- I'd say that's a show of a desire to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 It's hard to tell if you're being critical of JR by posting this, but if you are, take a look at the off-season the Sox had, and then tell me they aren't doing all they can to win in '03. Retaining Thomas, trading for Colon, and solidifying our bullpen by acquiring Tom Gordon and Billy Koch -- I'd say that's a show of a desire to win. Not to mention season ticket sales here are UP 20%. Might be a good idea to get informed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Not to mention season ticket sales here are UP 20%. Might be a good idea to get informed.. Yeah, really...I'd attribute the 20% increase (I too didn't know that...definitely good news) to fans seeing that the Sox want to win with the Bartolo acquisition. I remember when I heard about that trade. I couldn't believe it. Definitely gave me high hopes for '03. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Not to mention season ticket sales here are UP 20%. Might be a good idea to get informed.. Yeah, really...I'd attribute the 20% increase (I too didn't know that...definitely good news) to fans seeing that the Sox want to win with the Bartolo acquisition. I remember when I heard about that trade. I couldn't believe it. Definitely gave me high hopes for '03. i think the point yansy is trying to make is if the sox goes out and gets the talent to win, the fans will come and i agree with the assessment. but if he doesn't resign colon and the sox stay pat, the success they had with the fans coming out will be short live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 i think the point yansy is trying to make is if the sox goes out and gets the talent to win, the fans will come and i agree with the assessment. but if he doesn't resign colon and the sox stay pat, the success they had with the fans coming out will be short live. Well..the Angels kind of stood pat, didn't they? I mean, they won the Championship, but it's very hard to repeat in any sport nowadays, so you'd think they would want to improve, and I don't think they have. I, of course, could be wrong. Also, JR is not a fool. He knows that winning is the only thing that will lead to prolonged increases in attendance. The Sox were winning in the early-mid 90's ('93 and '94 mainly), and their attendance was pretty darned good. Granted, they were in a new ballpark, but the attendance would have been good regardless of their stadium. He's seen good days with the Sox, and he's certainly seen his share of bad. If the Sox don't underachieve in '03, I think he will be willing to put some money into this team and solidify our key free agents and keep this team competitive for years to come. "If you build it (it, in this case, being a good team), they will come". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Not to mention season ticket sales here are UP 20%. Might be a good idea to get informed.. Yeah, really...I'd attribute the 20% increase (I too didn't know that...definitely good news) to fans seeing that the Sox want to win with the Bartolo acquisition. I remember when I heard about that trade. I couldn't believe it. Definitely gave me high hopes for '03. i think the point yansy is trying to make is if the sox goes out and gets the talent to win, the fans will come and i agree with the assessment. but if he doesn't resign colon and the sox stay pat, the success they had with the fans coming out will be short live. Sorry LDF, don't get that from the post. Looked like a shot because we haven't won. No disrespect.. JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Sorry LDF, don't get that from the post. Looked like a shot because we haven't won. No disrespect.. JMO. Agree..but didn't want LDF to think I don't like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Sorry LDF, don't get that from the post. Looked like a shot because we haven't won. No disrespect.. JMO. Agree..but didn't want LDF to think I don't like him. LOL... LDF's got nerves of steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 It's hard to tell if you're being critical of JR by posting this, but if you are, take a look at the off-season the Sox had, and then tell me they aren't doing all they can to win in '03. Retaining Thomas, trading for Colon, and solidifying our bullpen by acquiring Tom Gordon and Billy Koch -- I'd say that's a show of a desire to win. Not to mention season ticket sales here are UP 20%. Might be a good idea to get informed.. Maybe you should realize that much of the increase is due to the White Sox hosting the All-Star Game. Ticket brokers have been buying chunks of season tickets for the SOLE PURPOSE of obtaining premier All-Star Game and festivities tickets. As for JR doing everything he can do to win..... . While Colon was a good pick-up, and I did give both him and KW credit for making that happen, there are still holes at C, 2B (nobody knows how DJ is going to fare and his back-up is Harris), and CF. Three ?-marks at nine fielding positions hardly shows a committed desire to do EVERYTHING possible to win..... especially when Kent, IRod, Cruz, etc. were available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 It's hard to tell if you're being critical of JR by posting this, but if you are, take a look at the off-season the Sox had, and then tell me they aren't doing all they can to win in '03. Retaining Thomas, trading for Colon, and solidifying our bullpen by acquiring Tom Gordon and Billy Koch -- I'd say that's a show of a desire to win. Not to mention season ticket sales here are UP 20%. Might be a good idea to get informed.. Maybe you should realize that much of the increase is due to the White Sox hosting the All-Star Game. Ticket brokers have been buying chunks of season tickets for the SOLE PURPOSE of obtaining premier All-Star Game and festivities tickets. As for JR doing everything he can do to win..... . While Colon was a good pick-up, and I did give both him and KW credit for making that happen, there are still holes at C, 2B (nobody knows how DJ is going to fare and his back-up is Harris), and CF. Three ?-marks at nine fielding positions hardly shows a committed desire to do EVERYTHING possible to win..... especially when Kent, IRod, Cruz, etc. were available. I realize that MANY everyday Joe's bought ticket packages. The ticket reps would know if it was brokers (names on the accounts, address and charge records) and according to ours it has been mostly individuals. The largest sales increase was the Sox 7.. why would brokers waste their time with those packages? They wouldn't. And new season ticket holders are not even GUARANTEED seats as of yet. And yes I'm sure it's increased because of the AS Game, but again, and back to my point.. why the shot at Jerry? You honestly think he doesn't want to win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 why the shot at Jerry? You honestly think he doesn't want to win? If you think JR has done everything possible to win throughout the span of his ownership..... more power to you. If that's your opinion then there is nothing I could post here that will change your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 why the shot at Jerry? You honestly think he doesn't want to win? If you think JR has done everything possible to win throughout the span of his ownership..... more power to you. If that's your opinion then there is nothing I could post here that will change your mind. And where did I say that...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Maybe you should realize that much of the increase is due to the White Sox hosting the All-Star Game. Ticket brokers have been buying chunks of season tickets for the SOLE PURPOSE of obtaining premier All-Star Game and festivities tickets. As for JR doing everything he can do to win..... . While Colon was a good pick-up, and I did give both him and KW credit for making that happen, there are still holes at C, 2B (nobody knows how DJ is going to fare and his back-up is Harris), and CF. Three ?-marks at nine fielding positions hardly shows a committed desire to do EVERYTHING possible to win..... especially when Kent, IRod, Cruz, etc. were available. Get real. The Sox drew 1,675,591 in 2002. Putting money into this team was not realistic. They did what they did (signed Frank, acquired Koch, signed Gordon, signed Daubach, and traded for Bartolo Colon), and did so without increasing payroll significantly. That's amazing, and there is no denying that. Second...so we have 3 question marks -- and? There aren't many teams in baseball that have fewer. You aren't going to go from being a .500 team to having 0 question marks. This team has the potential...POTENTIAL...to score 1000 runs and have 2 20-game winners, as well as 2 15+-game winners. True, that could all fall apart. Time will tell. Kent? You willing to not get Bartolo to sign him? I'm not. I-Rod? You willing to not sign Frank in order to get him? I certainly wasn't. Cruz? Please. So, unless you can name me an impact player that we could have signed without the need to break the bank, this Sox team absolutely did great this off-season considering the financial restrictions we had in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 And where did I say that...? Yeah, really. Steff never said that. Don't use BS tactics such as misquoting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 why the shot at Jerry? You honestly think he doesn't want to win? If you think JR has done everything possible to win throughout the span of his ownership..... more power to you. If that's your opinion then there is nothing I could post here that will change your mind. Who's talking about the span of his ownership? Aren't we talking about the 2003 season and this current off-season? Don't pull further BS tactics such as changing the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Kent? You willing to not get Bartolo to sign him? I'm not. I-Rod? You willing to not sign Frank in order to get him? I certainly wasn't. Cruz? Please. Ummmm..... when you have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball, if you're committed to winning, there is no reason why the Sox couldn't have pursued both Kent and Colon. Alomar and ????? I'd feel a little better if it was Alomar and IRod instead of Alomar and ????? Again..... one of the lowest payrolls in baseball comes into play. Cruz? True. He's not the best out there. The White Sox Organization said that Borchard was going to AAA before the season even started. So it was Rowand at CF against his injury. We've seen what Loaiza did to Rauch and his chances. What's wrong with picking up SOMEONE that could challenge Rowand for CF? If you're content with picking up one impact player when this team needs one or two plus a few average ones, then have at it. I'm not content nor will I ever be content until JR has done everything possible to get the White Sox to the WS. So far, he has come up short every year of his ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 why the shot at Jerry? You honestly think he doesn't want to win? If you think JR has done everything possible to win throughout the span of his ownership..... more power to you. If that's your opinion then there is nothing I could post here that will change your mind. Who's talking about the span of his ownership? Aren't we talking about the 2003 season and this current off-season? Don't pull further BS tactics such as changing the subject. If you want to be Chairman of the Jerry Reinsdorf Ass-Licking Commitee no one here's going to stop you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 why the shot at Jerry? You honestly think he doesn't want to win? If you think JR has done everything possible to win throughout the span of his ownership..... more power to you. If that's your opinion then there is nothing I could post here that will change your mind. Who's talking about the span of his ownership? Aren't we talking about the 2003 season and this current off-season? Don't pull further BS tactics such as changing the subject. If you want to be Chairman of the Jerry Reinsdorf Ass-Licking Commitee no one here's going to stop you. How about addressing the topic and replying to the replies to the posts that you made and not tossing insults? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 If you want to be Chairman of the Jerry Reinsdorf Ass-Licking Commitee no one here's going to stop you. Licking Reinsdorf's ass? Once again you have changed the subject. This time, it has turned homosexual...how sad. And anyway, if pointing out that the Sox addressed several issues and now have a much better chance of winning than they did last season, then I guess I am an ass-licker (but, certainly not the ass of a male - perhaps that is your favorite past time, I have no idea, nor do I desire to). Read this list of Sox needs coming into this off-season, and say the Sox didn't take great strides in improving this team (and, keep in mind, did so and kept the payroll pretty much stable)... 1) Left-handed power. '02 we had Liefer (.230, 7, 26). '03 we'll have Daubach (.266, 20, 78) 2) #2 starter. '02 we had Ritchie (I think he was #2). '03 we'll have Colon. 3) Bullpen. We've added Gordon and solved our closer dilemma by acquiring Koch. 4) Team chemistry. Clayton is out, and Thomas appears to be a new man. Did they address every need? Of course not. Only the Yankees can do that. So if you want a .230 left-handed power hitter with an unproven #2 starter, along with a clubhouse in turmoil and a closer-by-committee situation, more power to you. I'll take '03, and if things go according to plan, I'll take '04 over '03. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 How about addressing the topic and replying to the replies to the posts that you made and not tossing insults? More depressing tactics. I'm new here, and I thought CubKilla was one of the more mature posters on here -- thus proving me wrong. Sad but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 My 2 cents: 1) The Sox do NOT have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. They are lower middle of the pack, but really nowhere near the bottom. I am 99% sure that the Sox's payroll was higher than Oakland's last year, the year before that, and this year. 2) Irod wanted a ridiculous amount of money for a ridiculously long period of time. Although there is no salary cap to prohibit JR from taking a shot at him, and risk being saddled with his contract for any number of useless years, the fact that only 2 teams seriously took a run at him says volumes about what Irod's value was. Throwing money around does not mean you are following the path to winning, just ask Tom Hicks, Steve Phillips or Peter Angelos. 3) To supplement what either clujer or Steff said, every team has numerous question marks, the answers to which always make or break their seasons. Take a look at the Angels from 2002. How many question marks would they have had going into the season? How about 1) Who would get the ball from the starters to Percival? 2) Is Tim Salmon done? 3) Which Erstat shows up? 4) Are they really going with David Eckstein as their starting SS? 5) Do they have a major league-quality 2B? Who will play 1B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 My 2 cents: 1) The Sox do NOT have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. They are lower middle of the pack, but really nowhere near the bottom. I am 99% sure that the Sox's payroll was higher than Oakland's last year, the year before that, and this year. 2) Irod wanted a ridiculous amount of money for a ridiculously long period of time. Although there is no salary cap to prohibit JR from taking a shot at him, and risk being saddled with his contract for any number of useless years, the fact that only 2 teams seriously took a run at him says volumes about what Irod's value was. Throwing money around does not mean you are following the path to winning, just ask Tom Hicks, Steve Phillips or Peter Angelos. 3) To supplement what either clujer or Steff said, every team has numerous question marks, the answers to which always make or break their seasons. Take a look at the Angels from 2002. How many question marks would they have had going into the season? How about 1) Who would get the ball from the starters to Percival? 2) Is Tim Salmon done? 3) Which Erstat shows up? 4) Are they really going with David Eckstein as their starting SS? 5) Do they have a major league-quality 2B? Who will play 1B? Your 2 cents sure looks like gold to me. Agree with every word you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 How about addressing the topic and replying to the replies to the posts that you made and not tossing insults? More depressing tactics. I'm new here, and I thought CubKilla was one of the more mature posters on here -- thus proving me wrong. Sad but true. Sorry I took it there. I usually don't get like that on these boards but some things really get to me. And when someone defends JR..... an owner that I think is the real problem with the White Sox franchise as a whole..... I get angry. You're entitled to your opinion, and me making a blanket statement such as I did was wrong. I'm the asshole for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 Sorry I took it there. I usually don't get like that on these boards but some things really get to me. And when someone defends JR..... an owner that I think is the real problem with the White Sox franchise as a whole..... I get angry. You're entitled to your opinion, and me making a blanket statement such as I did was wrong. I'm the asshole for that. I think if the Sox had not traded for Colon, you would be very right. However, by shocking most everyone and getting a legitimate Cy Young candidate for none of our key players, I think JR filled IMO the biggest hole this team had. This Sox squad has a chance to make some serious noise this year beyond just winning the AL Central (the worst division in baseball). If we can get 2 or 3 pleasant surprises (maybe Rowand, Olivo, and our #5 starter), we'll be playing deep into October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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