concern about KW

[fathom]

The more I read things about Kenny Williams, the more it seems like he just doesn't have a solid plan for this organization. He seems to manage the personnel of the Sox like they're a high budget team, but in reality, they're a middle of the pack budget organization. He continues to trade away promising young players for costlier veterans, which is not the way to manage a budget sufficiently. Luck at the Cubs for example. They keep trading away their future starters in Choi, Hill, etc in order to get higher priced guys. Then, when their contracts are up, they're left without their prospects, and they have to empty their pockets for high priced players.

You would think that with all of the players that the Sox will likely lose to free agency, they'd have a lot of flexibility to sign some players. However, KW has saddled himself with some pretty big contracts (Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Lee, Everett, Thomas, and Konerko) that will likely hamper the organization in the off-season. The fact that there are written reports (even though they might not be true) that KW was interested in trading McCarthy at beginning of the year, and Sweeney for Cliff Floyd, really worries me about his/organizational's ability to scout young players. You would think that with all the prospects that KW has traded the last few years, they would have a lot more talent at the major league level than they currently do.

[BobDylan]

Yea, because before KW, working the farm system worked real well.

 

KW has managed to trade away a lot of the farm while slowly adding players that he can use for the long run. We have long term options for SS and 2B, he held on to Rowand, he re-signed Garcia and brought in Contreras. Maybe it's just me, but I'll take those guys over a few prospects that could be.

 

He's revamping the system with players that are a bit more proven.

[fathom]

Yea, because before KW, working the farm system worked real well.

 

KW has managed to trade away a lot of the farm while slowly adding players that he can use for the long run. We have long term options for SS and 2B, he held on to Rowand, he re-signed Garcia and brought in Contreras. Maybe it's just me, but I'll take those guys over a few prospects that could be.

 

He's revamping the system with players that are a bit more proven.

I must be the only one that doesn't believe Willie Harris is a long-term option for the Sox. He could be a valuable bench player/pinch runner, but I don't think he is MLB caliber to start at 2b.

[BobDylan]

I must be the only one that doesn't believe Willie Harris is a long-term option for the Sox.  He could be a valuable bench player/pinch runner, but I don't think he is MLB caliber to start at 2b.

Why not?

[Kogs35]

I must be the only one that doesn't believe Willie Harris is a long-term option for the Sox.  He could be a valuable bench player/pinch runner, but I don't think he is MLB caliber to start at 2b.

i agree with u. willie harris can not hit the southpaws he doesnt swing at good pitches but swings at bad pitches or just sits there he jsut use his speed to steal bases hes not an everyday player he could be a bench guy but hes more of the typical AAAA infielder

[YASNY]

Willie Harris is a young player that is just now learning how to play the game at the major league level. He's been adequate defensively and his .265 is a mild but pleasant suprise. If we can turn the switch that makes him a bit more aggressive on the basepaths, and a natural improvement through experience and maturity, I see no reason why Willie can't be a quality ML second baseman. Even as soon as next year.

[BobDylan]

i agree with u. willie harris can not hit the southpaws he doesnt swing at good pitches but swings at bad pitches or just sits there he jsut use his speed to steal bases hes not an everyday player he could be a bench guy but hes more of the typical AAAA infielder

And he'll never learn how.

 

He's young, all the tools are there. I see a bright future for Willie.

[BobDylan]

Willie Harris is a young player that is just now learning how to play the game at the major league level.  He's been adequate defensively and his .265 is a mild but pleasant suprise.  If we can turn the switch that makes him a bit more aggressive on the basepaths, and a natural improvement through experience and maturity, I see no reason why Willie can't be a quality ML second baseman.  Even as soon as next year.

Agreed 100%. I look at him and see a rare type of ball player, one that I haven't really seen on the Sox in awhile.

[fathom]

It's not like Willie Harris is really that young of a player like everyone is describing. He's 26 years old this season. Not only that, he's batting .185 vs lhp, and his overall slugging percentage is .323. If Willie was more like someone like Juan Pierre, I'd have a lot more hope for him. One of the biggest concerns I have with Harris is that he just isn't a very good hitter. He doesnt hit the ball very hard, and when he tries to chop it (like Luis Castillo), he doesnt hit it hard enough to get it out of the infield.

[BobDylan]

It's not like Willie Harris is really that young of a player like everyone is describing.  He's 26 years old this season.  Not only that, he's batting .185 vs lhp, and his overall slugging percentage is .323.  If Willie was more like someone like Juan Pierre, I'd have a lot more hope for him.  One of the biggest concerns I have with Harris is that he just isn't a very good hitter.  He doesnt hit the ball very hard, and when he tries to chop it (like Luis Castillo), he doesnt hit it hard enough to get it out of the infield.

Juan Pierre wasn't always as good as Juan Pierre is.

[LDF]

willie harris aside, kw has constantly been on the worst end of the trades, except for a few.

[fathom]

Juan Pierre wasn't always as good as Juan Pierre is.

Well, you might want to look at Pierre's stats for his career, and rethink that statement. Pierre has never hit below .287 in his career, and 3 of his 4 full major league seasons were above .300. Pierre also has never had a full season below 46 stolen bases, and has always hit more triples than Willie has.

[Steff]

I must be the only one that doesn't believe Willie Harris is a long-term option for the Sox.  He could be a valuable bench player/pinch runner, but I don't think he is MLB caliber to start at 2b.

No, you're not the only one..

[Guest JimH]

No, you're not the only one.. 

Not the only one, not by a long shot.

 

Harris is ok, that's it. If we ever decide we want to win a World Series, Willie Harris is not the starting 2nd baseman.

 

He should be a catalyst, a guy who drives the other team crazy, a guy who can bunt (nope), steal a lot (nope), work the counts and see tons of pitches (not really), and hit for a high everage (nope).

 

For those who say he's young and will improve, there's no more evidence of that than me saying he won't improve. This is a guy who had a ton of minor league at bats and plenty of time to hone his skills as a small ball player.

 

If he'd demonstrated thus far he can bunt and steal bases, I would be more optimisitic and think that maybe his average will come around. He simply does not disrupt the other team's defense.

 

We need to aim higher than Willie Harris. He's ok, but that's all he is.

[Rowand44]

willie harris aside, kw has constantly been on the worst end of the trades, except for a few.

I can think of two. Please tell me which others besides the Todd Ritchie and Billy Koch trades?

[SoxFan562004]

I may be completely wrong, but I think KW has been burdened with a lot of high price contracts which weren't of his own doing. I think this off-season will be a good gauge of his ability, he's getting at least 19 million off the books with Maggs and JosE5.

 

I'm not throwing my support behind KW, but in my opinion he'll be out of excuses after this off-season and I want to see what he does

[Wise Master Buehrle]

It's not like Willie Harris is really that young of a player like everyone is describing.  He's 26 years old this season.  Not only that, he's batting .185 vs lhp, and his overall slugging percentage is .323.  If Willie was more like someone like Juan Pierre, I'd have a lot more hope for him.  One of the biggest concerns I have with Harris is that he just isn't a very good hitter.  He doesnt hit the ball very hard, and when he tries to chop it (like Luis Castillo), he doesnt hit it hard enough to get it out of the infield.

Holy f***. He's not THAT old! It's not like he's freaking Roberto Alomar out there. He'll still have his speed for another good 4 years barring injury, and at 26 there is still room to grow strength. Not all new MLB players are 23 frickin' years old. Willie won't have a decline for at least 4 years. Unbelivable.

[LauraJ14]

I may be completely wrong, but I think KW has been burdened with a lot of high price contracts which weren't of his own doing. I think this off-season will be a good gauge of his ability, he's getting at least 19 million off the books with Maggs and JosE5. 

 

I'm not throwing my support behind KW, but in my opinion he'll be out of excuses after this off-season and I want to see what he does

KW signed Konerko, Lee, Koch, Buherle, Garcia, to those contracts.

Frank was previous to KW and I don't know if he did the Maggs contract or not. So I don't think that KW was saddled with lots of high paid talent, he did it to himself.

[SoxFan562004]

KW signed Konerko, Lee, Koch, Buherle, Garcia, to those contracts.

Frank was previous to KW and I don't know if he did the Maggs contract or not.  So I don't think that KW was saddled with lots of high paid talent,  he did it to himself.

Out of the contracts mentioned I only think the Konerko contract is bad. i think the MB, Garcia, and Lee contracts are all reasonable fair market deals

[southsider2k5]

Out of the contracts mentioned I only think the Konerko contract is bad.  i think the MB, Garcia, and Lee contracts are all reasonable fair market deals

The Konerko contract made sense when it was signed. After the contracts all starting coming down, then it looked a lot worse than it was.

[Yossarian]

Not the only one, not by a long shot.

 

Harris is ok, that's it.  If we ever decide we want to win a World Series, Willie Harris is not the starting 2nd baseman.

 

He should be a catalyst, a guy who drives the other team crazy, a guy who can bunt (nope), steal a lot (nope), work the counts and see tons of pitches (not really), and hit for a high everage (nope).

 

For those who say he's young and will improve, there's no more evidence of that than me saying he won't improve.  This is a guy who had a ton of minor league at bats and plenty of time to hone his skills as a small ball player.

 

If he'd demonstrated thus far he can bunt and steal bases, I would be more optimisitic and think that maybe his average will come around.  He simply does not disrupt the other team's defense.

 

We need to aim higher than Willie Harris.  He's ok, but that's all he is.

Add me to the chorus of those much less than impressed by Willie Harris.

[witesoxfan]

KW signed Konerko, Lee, Koch, Buherle, Garcia, to those contracts.

Frank was previous to KW and I don't know if he did the Maggs contract or not.  So I don't think that KW was saddled with lots of high paid talent,  he did it to himself.

Thomas's contract is not the same one KW had when he came in. The Dimished Skills Clause was used on Thomas after the 2002 season, where Thomas had a period of about 45 days where he could have signed with any other team in the league...after those 45 days were up, he was resigned to a 1-year deal with mutual options for the next 3 years(he made $5 mill plus a $1 mill loan in 2003, $6 mill this past year, will make $8 or $10 mill next year(more likely $8), and $10 or $12 mill in 2006, and that could end up being his last year in the majors...though he could also go to 2007 or even 2008 too)

 

All the contracts on the team have been signed when KW was on board, or they were signed with another team.

 

 

 

LDF...KW has usually come out on top of deals, but has occassionally been on the wrong end. His first year was by far his worst...Wells for Sirotka was a PR disaster, Myette for Clayton was bad(even knowing Myette has done nothing in his career...trading anyone, especially Myette, who at the time was a pretty good prospect IIRC, for a bench player making $7-9 mill or so over the next two years is terrible), the Berry-Barry thing, and I'm quite sure he handled the Sean Lowe fiasco terribly too...saying something like he was the 11th pitcher on an 11-man staff, or something like that.

 

2002 was better, but only by a little bit. Ritchie was awful, but he did get Marte and Edwin(now Ruddy) Yan for Matt Guerrier, who is now in Minnesota. He also traded away Kenny Lofton, Bob Howry, Ray Durham, and Sandy Alomar for Ryan Meaux, Felix Diaz(those two in the Lofton to San Fran deal), Frank Francisco , Byeong Hak-An(Howry to Boston), Adkins(Durham to Oakland...many considered this a huge mistake at the time, but it has turned out to be a much better deal then most initially thought...Durham only lasted half a year in Oakland, and Adkins will play a key part in our pen in the coming years), and Enemencio Pacheco(Sandy to Colorado). He did help boost the minor league system big time. He also traded Alex Fernandez and Humberto Quintero for D'Angelo Jimenez, and, at the time, that seemed to be a very good deal...Jimenez flat out raked with us for the rest of that year and for the first couple months in 2003 too, and then he started to suck, and was traded to Cincinatti for Tim Bittner and Scott Dunn IIRC...I know for sure we atleast got Dunn for him. Those two were eventually traded along side Glover for Schoenweis, and that deal was pretty much a wash.

 

2003 he made 1 terrible move, 2 decent moves, and 1 excellent move. Foulke for Koch was probably the worst trade of the year...Foulke went on to have an excellent year in Oakland, and Koch probably cost us the division. However, we did get Cotts out of the deal, and none of the players Oakland received are in the organization anymore...not that it is really worth anything. He also got Everett and Alomar, and with those in the lineup, this team made a very strong push for the playoffs, and came up 1 series short of doing just that. Francisco has been good in Texas, but has just recently thrown a chair into the stands. He's still got a bright future though. He also made the Colon trade, and Colon was good for us. 15-13 3.87 242 innings for us, and he gave up spare parts. That was by far his best move.

 

And I really don't see any move he's made this year that's been terrible. He got Uribe for Miles...that is a wash. He traded Matt Ginter for Timo Perez, and Ginter had no future in the organization. He traded Olivo, Reed, and Morse to Seattle for Garcia and Davis, and has since resigned Garcia to a 3-year deal...that is probably the biggest make or break deal he has ever made. Lucky for us, we got 3 more years to see if that make or break deal does make or break this team. He also completely b****slapped New York, trading Esteban Loaiza, who has since been removed from the rotation, for Jose Contreras, who was stellar in his first few starts with us but has since faded, probably due to both being worked a little more and him having no real reason to pitch, other then pride. He also gave up spare parts to get Everett and see if he can spark the team, and he didn't. He also will give up a PTBNL for Robbie, but really, that move was unnecessary.

 

 

I covered most of the deals KW has made, and, to me atleast, he does not come across as being a bad GM, in fact, I'd say every move he's made has had justification. Many he's paid too much for, or he overrated the guy he was getting, but in the end, he's come out on top, especially in the smaller moves. You look at the moves that don't make the headlines, and he really has come out on top.

[SoxAce]

Thomas's contract is not the same one KW had when he came in.  The Dimished Skills Clause was used on Thomas after the 2002 season, where Thomas had a period of about 45 days where he could have signed with any other team in the league...after those 45 days were up, he was resigned to a 1-year deal with mutual options for the next 3 years(he made $5 mill plus a $1 mill loan in 2003, $6 mill this past year, will make $8 or $10 mill next year(more likely $8), and $10 or $12 mill in 2006, and that could end up being his last year in the majors...though he could also go to 2007 or even 2008 too)

 

All the contracts on the team have been signed when KW was on board, or they were signed with another team.

 

 

 

LDF...KW has usually come out on top of deals, but has occassionally been on the wrong end.  His first year was by far his worst...Wells for Sirotka was a PR disaster, Myette for Clayton was bad(even knowing Myette has done nothing in his career...trading anyone, especially Myette, who at the time was a pretty good prospect IIRC, for a bench player making $7-9 mill or so over the next two years is terrible), the Berry-Barry thing, and I'm quite sure he handled the Sean Lowe fiasco terribly too...saying something like he was the 11th pitcher on an 11-man staff, or something like that.

 

2002 was better, but only by a little bit.  Ritchie was awful, but he did get Marte and Edwin(now Ruddy) Yan for Matt Guerrier, who is now in Minnesota.  He also traded away Kenny Lofton, Bob Howry, Ray Durham, and Sandy Alomar for Ryan Meaux, Felix Diaz(those two in the Lofton to San Fran deal), Frank Francisco , Byeong Hak-An(Howry to Boston), Adkins(Durham to Oakland...many considered this a huge mistake at the time, but it has turned out to be a much better deal then most initially thought...Durham only lasted half a year in Oakland, and Adkins will play a key part in our pen in the coming years), and Enemencio Pacheco(Sandy to Colorado).  He did help boost the minor league system big time.  He also traded Alex Fernandez and Humberto Quintero for D'Angelo Jimenez, and, at the time, that seemed to be a very good deal...Jimenez flat out raked with us for the rest of that year and for the first couple months in 2003 too, and then he started to suck, and was traded to Cincinatti for Tim Bittner and Scott Dunn IIRC...I know for sure we atleast got Dunn for him. Those two were eventually traded along side Glover for Schoenweis, and that deal was pretty much a wash.

 

2003 he made 1 terrible move, 2 decent moves, and 1 excellent move.  Foulke for Koch was probably the worst trade of the year...Foulke went on to have an excellent year in Oakland, and Koch probably cost us the division.  However, we did get Cotts out of the deal, and none of the players Oakland received are in the organization anymore...not that it is really worth anything.  He also got Everett and Alomar, and with those in the lineup, this team made a very strong push for the playoffs, and came up 1 series short of doing just that.  Francisco has been good in Texas, but has just recently thrown a chair into the stands.  He's still got a bright future though.  He also made the Colon trade, and Colon was good for us.  15-13 3.87 242 innings for us, and he gave up spare parts.  That was by far his best move.

 

And I really don't see any move he's made this year that's been terrible.  He got Uribe for Miles...that is a wash.  He traded Matt Ginter for Timo Perez, and Ginter had no future in the organization.  He traded Olivo, Reed, and Morse to Seattle for Garcia and Davis, and has since resigned Garcia to a 3-year deal...that is probably the biggest make or break deal he has ever made.  Lucky for us, we got 3 more years to see if that make or break deal does make or break this team.  He also completely b****slapped New York, trading Esteban Loaiza, who has since been removed from the rotation, for Jose Contreras, who was stellar in his first few starts with us but has since faded, probably due to both being worked a little more and him having no real reason to pitch, other then pride.  He also gave up spare parts to get Everett and see if he can spark the team, and he didn't.  He also will give up a PTBNL for Robbie, but really, that move was unnecessary.

 

 

I covered most of the deals KW has made, and, to me atleast, he does not come across as being a bad GM, in fact, I'd say every move he's made has had justification.  Many he's paid too much for, or he overrated the guy he was getting, but in the end, he's come out on top, especially in the smaller moves.  You look at the moves that don't make the headlines, and he really has come out on top.

[LDF]

Here is the list i made before this yrI am making this list for all to see.

 

trades trades. decision

Royce Clayton and his 5 mil contract A. Myatte(sp) Lost, I would have had the minor leaguer sox lost money for 3 yrs at least and the cancer in the dug out.

 

Julio raminez Jeff Abbott At the time jeff was on the major league roster, lost the trade

 

D wells M stiro Even out, except that b/c of the rap the kw got, he lost out

Signing baines n/a Did he really help? Sox lost money

 

Mike Williams Matt dewitt Sox won the trade, b/c didn’t mike pitch in the majors and matt never made it?

 

a. osanu Gary majic or something Sox won the trade

 

Berry, baldwin Berry and gary majic or something Lost even more b/c he screwed up, laughing stock, sox lost the trade

 

a. embree d. hassellholf Did embree really do anything for the sox?? Sox won the trade by default.

 

??? Brook Fordyce Sox lost the trade

 

Signing of jose canseco n/a Sox won by default?

 

Signing howry to a contract extension, multi mil one at that Sox lost money

 

Bill Pulsipher off waivers n/a Sox won

 

Player to be name later perry Sox lost the trade

 

B simmons and r kohlmeir off waivers n/a Never amounted to anything

 

Shaffer and bilowski 2 minors Who cares….. never amounted to anything

 

Kipper Todd Ritchie Sox lost the trade to put it mildly.

 

Almost trade ernstd For chirs singleton and jon garland The sox won by not doing the trade.

 

Willie harris Chris Singleton Sox lost trade

 

Signing Kenny lofton n/a At the time sox lost for now,

 

Damaso Marte For matt guierre Sox won

 

Franklin Francisco and Byeong An howry Sox won

 

E Pacheco s. alomar Sox lost

 

F diaz and r meaux k. lofton So far a win for the sox. But lofton did good in the playoff.

 

J Adkins R durham Sox lost the trade.

 

D'Angelo Jimenez Alex Fernandez and catcher Humberto Quintero

Even trade? considering the he was a cancer, sox lost in addition isn’t humberto turning into a nice prospect?

 

Clayton is release on waivers Sox won, should have happen sooner.

 

Resign sandy alomar Sox won not having to give anything up.

 

Koch and cotts Foulke Sox lost trade period.

 

Koch sign an extension for 5.25 mil for 2 yrs

 

Colon i forgot I will still say the sox won this trade even tho the reliever wounded up with 30 something saves for the expos.

 

Sox sign 7 players the only one of importance is Esteban Loaiza Sox won

 

Sign rick white and tom Gordon Sox won on one and lost money on the other

 

Sign a rios Sox lost money

 

Carl Everett Francisco, rupe and webster I never did like this trade, sox lost.

 

R alomar Ring, almonte, savlio Sox won the trade imho.

 

Sullivan Cash I like this trade, sox won.

 

Brian Daubach ??? Sox got him, but he was a waste in mho

 

Daubach was release Cash was lost, who cares

 

Uribe Aron miles At first I thought sox lost, but I was wrong

 

 

This was semi complete list of transactions until the beginning of 2004. Of the major trades, the sox lost in those trades, in major signing, the sox won the majority of those. Still the major trade is were they hurt the sox the most. The likes of clayton, Ritchie, durham, Baldwin, brooks Fordyce, foulke, Everett were and are the major trades in which sox and kw lost. Colon, alomar, uribe, and lofton are the major trades in which the sox won. I won’t go into the minor trades and signing.

[greg775]

He's revamping the system with players

that are a bit more proven.

 

I'm glad you said "a bit" more proven.

KW doesn't thrill me, but he is handicapped because of Reinsdork.