Starting Rotation

[3E8]

That's a possibility.  But sometimes, a guy just "gets it".

I've re-watched the game where the Sox played Atlanta at USCF when Wright pitched, and all I can say is he looked about as dominant as any visiting pitcher had looked against us at USCF all year.

[farmteam]

Wright was pitching for portland(?)(i don't remember which team)

Portland is San Diego's afilliate.

[POPPY_HIDALGO]

Next Years Starting Rotation:

1.Buehrle

2.Garcia

3.Contrerras

4.Garland

5.Diaz

 

Write it down boys thats it. They won't be picking up anyone. With a rotation like that I can see another second place finish in the books for next year if they're lucky.

[WilliamTell]

Getting Radke would be a double plus. The Sox gain a good pitcher while the Twins lose the same one.

[Butter Parque]

I see him as our most realistic option besides Odalis Perez, whom you left off this list for some reason. He is not useless without Mazzone. We could sign this guy to a multi-year deal at a 'relatively' low cost.

 

I tried to put the most realistic ones in there. I pray to god that KW doesn't go after Russ ortiz, Odalis Perez, or Carl pavano. it would be like having another Freddy Garcia. Don't get me wrong, I like freddy, but his #'s since he got here just stink. He is a fly-ball pitcher in a home-run park. It just hasn't worked. I know I don't give my location in my profile but I am near New York. When Eric Milton was coming up, it looked like no one had the talent and pitching skills that he had. Remeber last season when he was hurt the whole season. he came back in September and dominated. I like Derek Lowe as a ground-ball pitcher and I think he might be a good option. I also want Brad Radke but it seems unlikely that he would go from Minnesota to the White Sox.

[babybearhater]

Getting Radke would be a double plus. The Sox gain a good pitcher while the Twins lose the same one.

Once again, this is almost a good point, except taking a good player away from the twins, usually opens the door for another good player. All they ever do is reload the team, so with radke gone, I would expect a new player to come and and establish himself as just as good if not better

[whitesox61382]

I tried to put the most realistic ones in there. I pray to god that KW doesn't go after Russ ortiz, Odalis Perez, or Carl pavano. it would be like having another Freddy Garcia. Don't get me wrong, I like freddy, but his #'s since he got here just stink. He is a fly-ball pitcher in a home-run park. It just hasn't worked. I know I don't give my location in my profile but I am near New York. When Eric Milton was coming up, it looked like no one had the talent and pitching skills that he had. Remeber last season when he was hurt the whole season. he came back in September and dominated. I like Derek Lowe as a ground-ball pitcher and I think he might be a good option. I also want Brad Radke but it seems unlikely that he would go from Minnesota to the White Sox.

Let me get this straight, you don't want the Sox to go after guys like Ortiz, Pavano, and Perez, but you do want them to go after guys like Lowe, Milton, and Radke. I hope that you don't have a friend in the Sox management, because that is some of the worst advice I have heard. I do think that Radke would be a good option, and I think that he should be the Sox first choice, but Lowe and Milton are no-nos.

 

Who cares that Milton had some of the best stuff you saw when he was coming up? The fact of the matter is that it hasn't translated to major league sucess. There are hundreds of pitchers with great stuff that never amount to anything. Should the Sox go after Scott Ruffcorn, because he had great stuff in the minors to? That is some of the worst logic I have heard in a while. You than pointing to his 3 starts at the end of the 2003 season to back up you point and simple ignoring the much larger sample size, that is his career, with his career ERA of 4.78, or the fact that he has never had an ERA below 4.32 in a season. Not to mention the fact that Milton is an EXTREME flyball pitcher, who allows almost 2 flyballs for every 1 that Garcia allows, and has never given up fewer than 24 HR in a season(including 38 HR this year).

 

Who cares that Lowe is a groundball pitcher? For starters, the Sox don't have a GG calibur defense in the infield to take advantage of a groundball pitcher. The fact that a pitcher is a groundball pitcher is not reason enough to sign him. The Sox have their own extreme groundball pitcher in Garland, and look how effective he has been. Should the Sox go after Mike Hampton solely because he is a groundball pitcher? You also ignore the fact that Lowe's 2002 season was a fluke, and that his ERA has gone up the past 2 seasons(4.47 in 03 and 4.91 in 04). I don't care what kind of pitcher he is, an ERA approaching 5 is bad anyway that you slice it.

 

You are telling me that you would rather have these guys instead of players like Ortiz, Pavano, or Perez?

 

I am not a huge Ortiz fan because of his high walk totals and so-so peripherals, but you got to give the guy some credit. There is a pretty good chance that he could post 200+ IP, 14+ W, and a sub 4.00 ERA for the 4th straight season. I guess you can say that he is one of those guys that knows how to win and can pitch over his mistakes. While he wouldn't be my first choice, I wouldn't mind those above numbers in the Sox 3rd spot in the rotation, and would much rather have him over Milton and Lowe.

 

I compare Pavano to Matt Clement. A guy who has always had good stuff, but who took a little longer to figure it out. The guy has followed his solid 2003 season with a breakout 2004 season, in which he has been one of the top pitchers in the majors. Furthermore, he is a groundball pitcher who has only given up 34 HR in 400+ IP the last 2 years combined. There is no way that any semi-knowlegible person would rather have Milton or Lowe instead of Pavano, unfortunately, his asking price will probably be a little too much.

 

Perez would probably be my 2nd choice this offseason behind Radke. I was one of those people who questioned Perez after his so-so year last year, but he has rebounded nicely. This guy has some of the better stuff in the league, has great control, excellent peripheral stats, and he is a groundball pitcher. I think that he would be a great addition, and I hope that the Sox go after him this offseason.

 

Some other guys worth taking a look at are Clement and Morris. I have always like Clement and think he would be a good addition. He is also a groundball pitcher . His price tag might be a little high, but it never hurts to ask. Morris could be had for a bargain thanks to his so-so season this year. If you are looking for a diamond in the rough who might rebound nicely, than Morris might be your guy. The guy had never posted an ERA above 3.76 before this season. His 33 HR allowed is significantly higher than his previous high of 20, and is a little misleading for one of the top groundball pitchers in the game. His peripherals are pretty good for a guy with an ERA in the mid 4's, and they suggest that he is better than his ERA and could see an improvement next year. Healthy concerns worry me a little, but the guy has had 27+ starts the last 4 years.

[CWSGuy406]

Let me get this straight - Freddy Garcia is described, by you, as 'shaky', but Eric Milton is a great pitcher?

 

You're kidding, right?

[babybearhater]

Let me get THIS straight. We dont want to go after ground ball pitchers, but we are using that as a reason to make pitchers look promising???

 

Get used to it folks, this is the team you are going to see back next year

[3E8]

Get used to it folks, this is the team you are going to see back next year

Until you are hired as the White Sox general manager, I'm not going to believe you.

[CanOfCorn]

You guys are all assuming we are going to go after a free agent. What about trades? We have some tradable pieces...Kong, Caballo, Crede, Willie Harris, possibly Borchard...there may be starting pitching coming with that. We could even sign Maggs to a one-year and trade him.

 

 

While it's great to argue about free agents, if you really want to do this, we should use trades too. Like possibly Oliver Perez from the Pirates...

[Wanne]

Getting Radke would be a double plus. The Sox gain a good pitcher while the Twins lose the same one.

Finally....it took me 3 pages to get to someone with this point.

 

My personal preference is Pavano...but I don't think there's any way in hell he'd come here unless Ozzie can pull a major PR move with the Latino card.

 

My order of want is:

 

Pavano

Radke

O. Perez

[babybearhater]

Until you are hired as the White Sox general manager, I'm not going to believe you.

maybe someday, until then, i am going on KW's tendencies of picking up nobodies in the offseason, and trading for has-beens during the season

[Yossarian]

maybe someday, until then, i am going on KW's tendencies of picking up nobodies in the offseason, and trading for has-beens during the season

Yes, those are his tendencies but the majority here seem to think that he is a capable GM.

[CWSGuy406]

maybe someday, until then, i am going on KW's tendencies of picking up nobodies in the offseason, and trading for has-beens during the season

Oh - you mean picking up nobody's like Freddy Garcia, and then trading pieces like Esteban Loaiza (2004 version) for, at the very least, a quality pitcher in Jose Contreras? Is that what you mean?

[Butter Parque]

I am not a huge Ortiz fan because of his high walk totals and so-so peripherals, but you got to give the guy some credit. There is a pretty good chance that he could post 200+ IP, 14+ W, and a sub 4.00 ERA for the 4th straight season. I guess you can say that he is one of those guys that knows how to win and can pitch over his mistakes. While he wouldn't be my first choice, I wouldn't mind those above numbers in the Sox 3rd spot in the rotation, and would much rather have him over Milton and Lowe.

 

Just for this paragraph, I hope the White Sox sign Russ Ortiz. Hopefully it won't be for too long or for too much money so that it won't screw them up long term but I'd like to see him sign here for a 2 year deal. Tis way when he looks like the Freddy Garcia and his 4.95 ERA since coming to USCF. In seattle, his ERA was 3.20. We all knew his #'s would go up, but we never thought he would be a 5 ERA pitcher and no one should blame this on his injury because we could all see it wasn't that serious. In Garcia's best season, he had given up 16 HR's, this year he has already given up 21 with about 3 or 4 starts to go, and he spent half the year in Safeco field. From looking at his game log, it looks like has had about 7 nice starts (2 of them really weren't what we would of expect from Freddy Garcia) So I would say about 5 out of 12 of Freddy's starts were what we would have expected. Now can you tell me that Russ Ortiz is a better pitcher career wise then Russ Ortiz. You can expect worse #'s then those of Garcia's if he comes to Chicago. A higher walk total, more home-run's and a higher ERA.

 

As for Milton, his worst year came in his rookie season, he had a 5.64 ERA which really hurts his career ERA. You can't hold that against him. There aren't a lot of great rookie pitchers. 5 out of 7 seasons he has had a winning record. Yes, his home run totals have been high but for about his whole career he was piching in the homer dome which is worse then USCF. Milton has given up 38 HR's this year but again he is in Philly where the HR is pretty common. Ortiz has given up 21 HR's and it's pretty hard to hit on eout in turner field. 21 HR's; thats the same as Garcia and Freddy has been in Chicago instead of Turner Field for at least part of the year. If he comes to Chicago, you all know he will be an exact duplicate of Garcia. Maybe worse.

[babybearhater]

Oh - you mean picking up nobody's like Freddy Garcia, and then trading pieces like Esteban Loaiza (2004 version) for, at the very least, a quality pitcher in Jose Contreras?  Is that what you mean?

no I mean like picking up robbie alomar, and everett. And when we got freddie, we traded our #1 minor league prospect, and our best catcher, not that I dont agree with the trade, but we coulda gotten freddie for jose valentin in the offseason

[CWSGuy406]

no I mean like picking up robbie alomar, and everett.  And when we got freddie, we traded our #1 minor league prospect, and our best catcher, not that I dont agree with the trade, but we coulda gotten freddie for jose valentin in the offseason

I doubt it, even with the Carlos Guillen trade...

[Reddy]

my list would have Matt Clement at or near the top with Perez 2nd... i dont like Ortiz one bit, Milton sucks, and Pavano and Pedro are pointless to go after.

 

How bout:

 

Clement/Perez

Buehrle

Garcia

Contreras

Garlend

[babybearhater]

I doubt it, even with the Carlos Guillen trade...

that was one of the rumored trades

[soxman352000]

How bout:

 

Clement/Perez

Buehrle

Garcia

Contreras

Garlend

Me likey, but I would rather have Perez over Clement

[CWSGuy406]

my list would have Matt Clement at or near the top with Perez 2nd... i dont like Ortiz one bit, Milton sucks, and Pavano and Pedro are pointless to go after.

 

How bout:

 

Clement/Perez

Buehrle

Garcia

Contreras

Garlend

I'd take either Perez or Clement, but I'd rather stick them in the three spot. I'd take Buehrle and Garcia one and/or two over either of the other two. But Clement would be a solid pickup...

[TheBlackSox8]

Me likey, but I would rather have Perez over Clement

How bout Perez AND Clement

[whitesox61382]

I am not a huge Ortiz fan because of his high walk totals and so-so peripherals, but you got to give the guy some credit. There is a pretty good chance that he could post 200+ IP, 14+ W, and a sub 4.00 ERA for the 4th straight season. I guess you can say that he is one of those guys that knows how to win and can pitch over his mistakes. While he wouldn't be my first choice, I wouldn't mind those above numbers in the Sox 3rd spot in the rotation, and would much rather have him over Milton and Lowe.

 

Just for this paragraph, I hope the White Sox sign Russ Ortiz. Hopefully it won't be for too long or for too much money so that it won't screw them up long term but I'd like to see him sign here for a 2 year deal. Tis way when he looks like the Freddy Garcia and his 4.95 ERA since coming to USCF. In seattle, his ERA was 3.20. We all knew his #'s would go up, but we never thought he would be a 5 ERA pitcher and no one should blame this on his injury because we could all see it wasn't that serious. In Garcia's best season, he had given up 16 HR's, this year he has already given up 21 with about 3 or 4 starts to go, and he spent half the year in Safeco field. From looking at his game log, it looks like has had about 7 nice starts (2 of them really weren't what we would of expect from Freddy Garcia) So I would say about 5 out of 12 of Freddy's starts were what we would have expected. Now can you tell me that Russ Ortiz is a better pitcher career wise then Russ Ortiz. You can expect worse #'s then those of Garcia's if he comes to Chicago. A higher walk total, more home-run's and a higher ERA.

 

As for Milton, his worst year came in his rookie season, he had a 5.64 ERA which really hurts his career ERA. You can't hold that against him. There aren't a lot of great rookie pitchers. 5 out of 7 seasons he has had a winning record. Yes, his home run totals have been high but for about his whole career he was piching in the homer dome which is worse then USCF. Milton has given up 38 HR's this year but again he is in Philly where the HR is pretty common. Ortiz has given up 21 HR's and it's pretty hard to hit on eout in turner field. 21 HR's; thats the same as Garcia and Freddy has been in Chicago instead of Turner Field for at least part of the year. If he comes to Chicago, you all know he will be an exact duplicate of Garcia. Maybe worse.

Butter Parque, what are you trying to say? You most recent post is one of the most unorganized things I have seen in a while. You jump all over the map, talk about things that don't even relate to the topic at hand, and contradict yourself numerous times.

 

Garcia hasn't been as effective as hoped, but his peripherals suggest that his ERA shouldn't be that high. Furthermore, 1 start(the Detroit start) is the difference between an ERA of 4.95 and 4.19, which clearly shows that 13 starts isn't enough to make an accurate assessment at this point. Everyone expected his ERA and HR totals to go up some, but the increase to this point isn't accurate(sample size is too small). We will have to wait until next year before we find out how good Garcia is in Chicago. Furthermore, how can you draw the conclusion that Ortiz will suffer the same fate as Garcia? By your messed up logic, does that mean that every pitcher with a similar ERA as Garcia is going to suffer the same fate, because that has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. You can expect Ortiz's numbers to increase some, but a Garcia-like increase is not normal and for some reason you don't understand that(not to mention the fact that the sample size is too small to make accurate judgements). Based on the TYPICAL increase experienced from a move to the AL and a better hitters park you can expect an increase of approximately .25-.50. However, you also have to consider that a pitcher like Ortiz will most likely get more run support as well since his new offense would also be playing in the AL and in a good hitters park.

 

I love how you expect Ortiz to suffer a significant increase in his stats, but you ignore Milton's terrible stats and attempt to suggest that he might be better in Chicago despite the fact that he would also be moving to the AL and to a better hitters park. Sure Milton's rookie year ERA brings up his career ERA some, but how can you still ignore the fact that he has never posted an ERA below 4.32, and in 3 of his last 4 FULL seasons he has posted an ERA of 4.80 or higher. You attempt to reach in your analysis of Ortiz and suggest that he would post an ERA around Garcia's 4.95(despite the fact that he hasn't posted an ERA above 4.02 in the last 4 years), and than turn around and ignore the fact that Milton HAS posted an ERA that high in 3 of the last 4 seasons. What kind of messed up logic is that? You expect me to take your response seriously when you use reasoning described above?

 

PS. Please research your info before you try and use things that aren't true. For example, USCF is a SIGNIFICANTLY better hitters park than the Twinky Dome. It isn't even close. USCF averages 11 runs per game while the Twinky Dome averages abou 9.4 runs per game. For that matter, USCF is also a better hitters park than Citizen Bank Field(Philly). The HR difference is even worse, so please don't use that as an excuse for Milton. The fact is, Milton's groundball/flyball ratio is FAR worse than Garcia, Ortiz, and almost every single starter for that matter, but for some reason you don't understand this. Milton is going to give up a ton of HR's and post a high ERA no matter where he pitches. Why would you want that on the Sox? Are you trying to make them lose? Why would you pick a pitcher that has a history of failure(Milton) over a pitcher that has been consistantly good(Ortiz)?

 

I would love to see the Sox go after 1 of the reasonable 4(Radke, Pavano, Perez, and Clement) or maybe take a chance on Morris if those 4 fall through.

[Rowand44]

Butter Parque, what are you trying to say? You most recent post is one of the most unorganized things I have seen in a while. You jump all over the map, talk about things that don't even relate to the topic at hand, and contradict yourself numerous times.

 

Garcia hasn't been as effective as hoped, but his peripherals suggest that his ERA shouldn't be that high. Furthermore, 1 start(the Detroit start) is the difference between an ERA of 4.95 and 4.19, which clearly shows that 13 starts isn't enough to make an accurate assessment at this point. Everyone expected his ERA and HR totals to go up some, but the increase to this point isn't accurate(sample size is too small). We will have to wait until next year before we find out how good Garcia is in Chicago. Furthermore, how can you draw the conclusion that Ortiz will suffer the same fate as Garcia? By your messed up logic, does that mean that every pitcher with a similar ERA as Garcia is going to suffer the same fate, because that has to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. You can expect Ortiz's numbers to increase some, but a Garcia-like increase is not normal and for some reason you don't understand that(not to mention the fact that the sample size is too small to make accurate judgements). Based on the TYPICAL increase experienced from a move to the AL and a better hitters park you can expect an increase of approximately .25-.50. However, you also have to consider that a pitcher like Ortiz will most likely get more run support as well since his new offense would also be playing in the AL and in a good hitters park.

 

I love how you expect Ortiz to suffer a significant increase in his stats, but you ignore Milton's terrible stats and attempt to suggest that he might be better in Chicago despite the fact that he would also be moving to the AL and to a better hitters park. Sure Milton's rookie year ERA brings up his career ERA some, but how can you still ignore the fact that he has never posted an ERA below 4.32, and in 3 of his last 4 FULL seasons he has posted an ERA of 4.80 or higher. You attempt to reach in your analysis of Ortiz and suggest that he would post an ERA around Garcia's 4.95(despite the fact that he hasn't posted an ERA above 4.02 in the last 4 years), and than turn around and ignore the fact that Milton HAS posted an ERA that high in 3 of the last 4 seasons. What kind of messed up logic is that? You expect me to take your response seriously when you use reasoning described above?

 

PS. Please research your info before you try and use things that aren't true. For example, USCF is a SIGNIFICANTLY better hitters park than the Twinky Dome. It isn't even close. USCF averages 11 runs per game while the Twinky Dome averages abou 9.4 runs per game. For that matter, USCF is also a better hitters park than Citizen Bank Field(Philly). The HR difference is even worse, so please don't use that as an excuse for Milton. The fact is, Milton's groundball/flyball ratio is FAR worse than Garcia, Ortiz, and almost every single starter for that matter, but for some reason you don't understand this. Milton is going to give up a ton of HR's and post a high ERA no matter where he pitches. Why would you want that on the Sox? Are you trying to make them lose? Why would you pick a pitcher that has a history of failure(Milton) over a pitcher that has been consistantly good(Ortiz)?

 

I would love to see the Sox go after 1 of the reasonable 4(Radke, Pavano, Perez, and Clement) or maybe take a chance on Morris if those 4 fall through.

Very solid post. Can I also say that for a while now pitchers have basically been getting work in because the games haven't meant anything. Freddy and Buehrle are a very solid 1-2 punch that I'm sure most teams in baseball would love to have. Now if you can add add a pavano( ) Clement, Perez, Radke, Pedro, or whoever to that and having those guys as the top 3 and Contreras and garland as the 4 and 5 starters, we'd have one hell of a rotation.